0:14

good morning uh Sego bonjour my name is

0:19

Steve Loft I’m gunnyanga haga of the honoshone and I first want to

0:25

acknowledge that we gather today on the unseated traditional territory of the

0:31

Algonquin anishnabe peoples and I want to personally thank my brothers and

0:37

sisters of the Algonquin Nations for hosting me and us here on this territory

0:44

today um when Ryan first asked me to be on this panel and uh told me about the

0:51

theme I was confused and I still am uh and I hope to be more

0:57

confused but I did start to think about a tour I had done a couple of years ago

1:02

of sites of petroglyphs across this land

1:08

for those of you don’t know petroglyphs are rock carvings done by indigenous

1:14

peoples of Turtle Island some thousands of years old and

1:21

I think about the makers of those carvings and I some of whom would be my

1:28

ancestors and I think about them looking to the skies

1:34

and reflecting on our philosophies their philosophies

1:40

their cosmologies through our stories our Traditions our dances our songs but

1:47

also looking seeing where we’re placed and trying to

1:52

articulate through what they make who they and we are

1:59

for me making is fundamentally about relationships

2:05

it’s our relationship to the Earth to the land to the environs

2:11

and to the beings we share with it’s our relationship with each other

2:18

and it’s our relationship to the cosmos whether that’s through earthenware

2:25

vessels through wearable technology through the structures that we inhabit

2:30

the things that we make articulate Who We Are

2:37

trying to place ourselves in a much wider much

2:43

an infinite environment not all that we make is good or good for

2:51

us but at its best what we make

2:59

can become like the petroglyphs the markers of our civilization in the

3:07

best and truest sense of that word and our Legacy to the infinite

3:15

so I’m really proud to be on a panel today with three very very distinguished

3:21

uh guests who I’m looking forward to hearing from in the interests of brevity

3:27

mine not theirs I won’t read their full bios I do encourage you to they’re very

3:34

accomplished people but I’ll very briefly introduce them here and then go

3:39

to our first panelist um Dr Sandra alfoldi received her PhD in

3:45

craft history from Concordia University and completed her postdoctoral fellowship and at the University of

3:52

Rochester her current research focuses on the relationship between craft and popular culture

3:58

she’s currently at nasca the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design University in

4:04

Halifax and I’m proud to say that she hired one of my best friends so she is

4:10

now by extension become one of my best friends [Music] then we will have Tom vasai

4:17

Tom is a registered architect in Ontario he is the managing director of the

4:22

design fabrication Zone at Ryerson University where I used to be so again I have an automatic new friend

4:31

and I’ve lost my spot uh an Institutional incubator focused on Innovative digital fabrication practice

4:37

practices and workflow he is coordinating the construction and fit

4:42

out of a new state-of-the-art workspace on campus the Ryerson future lab which I hope we’ll hear more about and then we

4:50

have Valerie lamontan uh who is an artist designer and PhD scholar researching perform a performative

4:56

wearables bodies fashion Technologies and laboratory cultures at Concordia

5:02

University where she teaches in the department of design and computation Arts with my friend Jason Lewis who so

5:09

we’re all instant friends um so please uh help me welcoming our

5:15

panelists and I’ll pass it over to Dr

5:23

fancy Clicker we have a fancy Clicker we were just saying we feel like it’s a

5:30

TV show and we’re going to give all of you cars but we’re not that’s right Ryan is Ryan

5:36

is thank you so much it is such an honor and privilege to be here and I will keep

5:42

my remarks brief so we can move into the discussion portion but I had to write them down as a professor of art history

5:50

I just conditioned I just want to thank Remco and Ryan for the opportunity to be

5:56

part of today uh the idea right from the Inception was a really exciting one so

6:02

I’m curious to see how it all unfolds so given the title of this morning’s

6:08

panel I have decided to call my own presentation uh talking making and I

6:14

just want to do that very briefly I was really interested in the title of today’s symposium unhanded

6:21

and I had a few questions about that what does that mean is this title the

6:27

idea of removing the hand from making or is the focus today going to be on how we

6:33

talk about the hand and its role in the process of making I like both these ideas so in my brief four minutes what

6:41

I’d like to do is just go over both of them so this session that we’re on begins

6:46

with the question what terms do we use to describe what is done right now

6:52

I’m researching craft in popular culture so I’m answering that question from a kind of popular culture perspective but

6:59

in my research for the book I’m working on called craft washing I thought that’s a dangerous

7:05

title I’ve found that these terms are most commonly used oh sorry look I

7:12

jumped right passing handcrafted made by hand artisanal made

7:18

with love and small batch but within professional studio practice

7:24

these terms are almost poisonous you will rarely find these being used in that way so there are really two types

7:32

of craft washing going on today in my opinion first I think within studio

7:37

practice professional studio practice if technology is used it is often described

7:44

as facilitating the Maker’s vision so there’s an idea that technology is

7:51

very positive it helps but the maker has not lost use of his or her hand and

7:58

although the hand is rarely foregrounded it’s the Maker’s originality the Creative Vision the thinking that gets

8:05

the spotlight on the other hand within corporations and pop culture

8:13

technology is unacknowledged and the hand crafted

8:18

and the idea of crafting with love is what’s emphasized no matter how ironic like uh Domino’s Artisan Pizza for 7.99

8:29

another question this panel asks is what are the links to European traditions of

8:35

craft and how do they relate to a new more broadly inclusive language

8:40

and I don’t mean to be too negative but the reality in my opinion is that still

8:45

today the fields of craft and design history and and studies are predominantly eurocentric why because we

8:54

constantly foreground European philosophers European artists designers and concerns

9:00

so Enlightenment ideas around the use of the hand as part of creative making and

9:06

technique still underpin our art academies our art institutions the way we curate the way that collectors

9:12

collect so for example I I was just recently rereading Johann Wolfgang von

9:20

Gold’s art and handicraft from 1797. where he argues that the only route to a

9:26

true work of art is quote compounding pure sensuality with intellect

9:33

and I think that’s what we’re talking about here over 220 years later we’re

9:38

still debating that relationship we are deeply critical

9:43

like gotta was of what he called mindless imitation blind tradition and

9:50

complacent inheritance if you are adhering to any of those you’re in trouble then you’re in trouble now

9:58

and he saw that this was a real problem in 18th century craft work so I think

10:03

we’re still extraordinarily critical of that today so how do we discuss this idea of tradition imitation inheritance

10:10

in the processes of making in the 21st century unhanding reflect an increase in

10:18

intellect is that what we’re after or is unhanding a diminishment of sensuality

10:23

so you know I’m curious about that relationship and how do we apply this to a globally uh new and inclusive language

10:33

and I think there’s the rub we still are applying that and so that

10:39

eurocentric imperative is still there we haven’t resolved the yearning that we always have to make and own beautifully

10:47

handcrafted objects that can enhance our lives with the good old desire for cheap

10:53

handcrafted items so I wonder when we talk about the role

10:58

of the Maker’s hand if we’re just shopped at h m I just had to buy my teenager back to school well wait I had

11:05

to pay for it he bought them but you know h m is where the kids go Forever 21 because it’s cheap

11:12

they’re not stopping to ask whether or not the Maker’s hands are involved how much technology is at play here what’s

11:18

going on in that relationship where’s the Mindless imitation the blind tradition the complacent inheritance in

11:24

a global discussion so the final question that this panel asks is what is at stake that’s a big

11:30

question and not to be overly dramatic but I think the answer like gota used is

11:36

everything he wrote in 1797 being worried about the industrial revolution of mass production

11:42

leading to the death of art he said quote the perfecting of Machinery the

11:48

refinement of handicraft and factory production bids fair to be the outer downfall of Art

11:54

so if we unhand our world are we still risking losing art or is this really

12:00

just about control that’s it thank you

12:05

[Applause]

12:12

that’s right next okay

12:17

um well um I’m gonna follow up and and give you let’s say some terms of reference from the side of

12:24

from the kind of from another sort of disciplinary angle so um I am in a I’m

12:29

an architect uh by training and I have always been very engaged and involved in technology in my work

12:36

um so in a way on this panel I think that I will try to speak for the kind of

12:42

evolving or changing role of Architects and designers in the context of some of the the uh the new tools and strategies

12:49

that are are kind of in front of us uh as we you know try to decide uh in in

12:55

what way where we work um how do we design and how are we making things and what’s that what’s the

13:01

relationship between those two things um so so I guess I’ll try to give you

13:07

some Concepts and strategies and I really there are um three little categories that I’m going to run through

13:13

to try to sort of put some of this terminology and some of these ideas on the table that we can discuss so one is

13:21

um uh I think most usefully looked at through the lens of and this will be

13:27

very quick ideal projects what are the kind of Ideal digital fabrication projects as seen from the kind of

13:32

architecture and design Community second um just underneath those projects what are

13:39

some of the kind of um preoccupations that I know some of my colleagues in here are are engaged in

13:45

for example James Hayes will be on the panel later around you know technology and workflow like what are we kind of

13:50

looking for when we’re working between the digital let’s say and digital fabrication or making what are the what

13:57

are the kind of uh frames of reference in that regard and finally very importantly and this this addresses a

14:03

little bit some of the the search that Remco was was commenting on in the introduction

14:08

how do you turn an art engine that has a collection of small maker spaces into something that actually has larger

14:14

spaces Etc that can leverage a broader audience and a larger spectrum of work

14:20

so what are these um what are the kind of um what’s the digi-fab ecosystem

14:25

let’s call it starting to look like um so let’s have a quick look at that at some

14:30

of these ideas so ideal projects um really there’s uh in in terms of the

14:36

terminology coming from Architects there was always geometry order and meaning and many of us on the kind of

14:42

architecture and the academic architecture side can spend years unpacking these Roger Khanna would be

14:47

able to speak to this for probably a marathon session of 48 Hours of just talking about these topics so there they

14:53

are and they remain at that kind of found foundational level in this discussion next other ideas though have

15:00

started to kind of permeate Notions of local response and minimum use of energy those that are interested in building

15:06

science have been talking about these things but really there’s another dimension to this that’s about the experience so how do we start to make

15:12

less generic spaces and more particular spaces and these are tending to be done through the lens of Technology

15:19

performance versus Behavior we as Architects we deal a lot with engineers

15:24

and we are always Engineers are very kind of quick to discuss

15:30

the performance of buildings and performance of the spaces that we occupy I’m exploring a broader term that I

15:38

think is more useful in the context of this kind of the sort of the unknown qualities that are currently in our

15:44

design making design fabrication kind of um syntax which would be Behavior not

15:50

how we behave in in buildings rather but not nor how buildings kind of in an empirical sense perform but rather this

15:57

relationship between let’s say people technology space a set of ideas a performance how are those kind of

16:04

behaviors uh important and finally a couple of other comments redundancy has

16:09

become a really important kind of thing that people are looking for in this design world how do we create systems that are uh playful that overlap in

16:18

various ways and finally um hybridization and interaction to terms

16:25

that I think are really will become very uh essential in the kind of syntax or lexicon of discussions around design and

16:32

technology so uh I’ll run you through some very very quickly some images that start to give you a sense of some of

16:38

these ideal projects and they in one we can ruminate on which of these kind of categorizations they sort of represent

16:44

or or or or uh stand to exemplify um these are these are MIT media lab

16:51

projects you’ll find that the in the in within this bandwidth of design and digital fabrication there’s a kind of uh

16:58

what I’m showing represent really they’re not building projects but rather these kind of experimental projects

17:04

that’s that are starting to be exemplary of some of these qualities that we’re looking for

17:10

um so I’m just going to run through some of these um this particular image could the the

17:16

kinds of technologies that might be put into play with that for example this group bought and Dolly have been working

17:21

with could start to leverage fabrication technology for the activation of a space very similar to this and

17:30

that gives you a little quick look at some projects some example projects I really don’t take the time to go into

17:35

those technology and workflow um so really there’s a couple of quick

17:42

things and I don’t want to belabor the discussion with these too much because they are somewhat technical so really there’s there’s

17:48

an interest in material testing that is kind of re-emerged in in architecture kind of syntax material testing rather

17:54

than just design which originally on paper and then using digital tools computation and simulation the idea that

18:02

you are not only using computers to facilitate drawing and designing but rather you’re starting to take advantage

18:07

of the kind of algorithmic processes in computers in order to make uh sort of self-generating designs to make sort of

18:15

generative generative systems let’s say on the one hand and then on the other with simulation the idea that you’re able to

18:22

test the properties of real material systems in computer programs so rather

18:27

than going out there and testing how something kind of performs or bends or flexes you can do a very if you can do a

18:34

very accurate simulation of that then all of a sudden it opens up a whole world of design possibilities

18:39

the the other one that’s very important these days and that’s really Central to the discussion let’s say in Academia around design and Fabrication is uh is

18:47

sort of feedback machine feedback really what that means is when you sort of give over making to machines robots CNC

18:55

machines Etc what gives back what those machines give back let’s say their limitations and their capacities become

19:01

really important in what you can and want to produce and the methods by which you work and finally um so just I’ll run

19:09

through these quickly material testing as it was done back in the day that’s from fry Auto in the 60s

19:17

um the idea of computation as a generative strategy on on your left being tested in physical materials and

19:24

finding some some parallel there um feedback from machines this is a very

19:30

elaborate project that’s being run from the ICD Institute guard where you’re using

19:35

um the you’re using various combinations of of robotic Technologies and finally one last point that I didn’t have on my

19:42

first list but really like networked activity uh to what extent do you need to be in the presence of the tools that

19:49

the fabrication Tools in order to do the digital production that would go into let’s say an Enterprise and so this is

19:56

an example from Martin Reese who’s a who’s a who works with at the one of the kind of preeminent facade design

20:01

companies in the world the the model on your on your right on your right was done by hundreds of people working

20:08

networked across the world on a kind of parametric modeling program in order to produce this kind of really you know

20:15

smooth and and curvy building that’s on the left so those ideas are really uh

20:20

you know maybe on the technical side but I think to kind of underwrite some of these discussions with what the people that are working in design between

20:27

you know hand and digital digital design and digital fabrication these are the

20:33

kind of things that they’re they’re researching and preoccupied with finally a last sort of area of Interest where

20:38

terminology is also becoming very important and this crosses over between profession the profession let’s say and

20:43

Academia or institutions uh institutions including I would say as a kind of a category the the maker spaces that are

20:50

and maker faires Etc that are that are kind of cropping up in all of the cities in Canada and around the world

20:55

um so what is the what’s a kind of digital fabrication ecosystem look like uh what does that really mean so some of

21:02

the things to look for um spaces and devices for making

21:08

um and where where they how they sit together and in what uh relationship so

21:14

this is this is the very question that ramco was asking like well if we have new tools and equipment how is it going

21:19

to be organized Etc um the devices themselves this is from a

21:26

guy he’s he’s the term that he’s using is uh the democratization of technology or or uh the digital vernacular

21:33

um and um James Stevens is he’s very interested in taking apart laser cutters and

21:39

putting them back together making a CNC machine and packaging it up in a box and carrying it off to a site where you can

21:46

work with people on site the understanding of the kind of nuances of these machines sometimes they’re very

21:52

simple and sometimes they become more complex and what relationship we might have with these devices [Applause]

21:58

um sorry there

22:04

um the institutionally the spaces that are getting created this is a space that’s

22:09

going to be under the purvey of the design fabrication Zone which is this incubator that I’m directing and it’s a

22:15

pretty multivalent like high-tech fabrication lab that but instead of it being locked in the kind of back rooms

22:21

of a particular faculty Department it’s open to the whole university so we’ll be dealing with a lot of the kind of

22:26

questions about who will use the space and in what capacity with that in mind like how are we teaching these things

22:32

what are the sort of shared spaces of learning around um the the these digital tools so these

22:38

are some examples of what that starts to look like very Hands-On lots of people kind of around these technology and

22:44

these technology spaces a example of work on a site in the same regard but

22:50

here a couple of other aspects to that could that technology space that that space of fabrication become double as a

22:57

performance space so the slide on the left starts to look at that possibility with things like a projection mapping

23:03

and using these fabrication tools to start moving cameras and sensors and screens

23:10

in some sort of configuration with people and finally the last slide is really the on the on this side is really

23:17

to just talk about if we’re interested in all these things is it should it be and is it happening in these back rooms

23:22

or do you need to start making these things kind of public in various ways through display so this issue of display

23:29

performance and those I think are at the kind of front door of some of these what

23:35

are currently kind of you know obscure Labs with lots of technical processes going on so that gives you a sense of

23:42

these are the preoccupations and let’s say the blind spots and the interests coming from let’s say the design side

23:48

and the architecture side in this area so I hope that wasn’t too too long thank you [Applause]

23:58

and how do I go forward okay all right uh hello good morning thank you for having me

24:05

um and uh what thought-provoking presentations already so

24:10

um I’m going to talk about fashion and technology and I really wanted to present the landscape of what that looks

24:17

like and I thought it would be a fun exercise to give a visual compendium uh

24:22

through the alphabet so there’s going to be a lot of visuals and don’t panic if

24:28

we don’t get to them all As yeah okay so we got to one slide

24:35

um there we go oh we’re at Z Already okay that was fun

24:42

oh so we’ll go from Z to A there we go so fun exercise so why not okay

24:48

um so really um and I just want to say my art you know my argument or at least my

24:54

reasoning for uh such a structure is that wearables as a kind of epistemic culture doesn’t have a hierarchy right

25:00

now it’s not as if textile or fashion or engineering can claim to own it and for

25:05

me that’s what is both confusing and exciting about it so let’s go through it let’s see if I have enough time oh no

25:11

there we go we got a little mishmash okay we’re back to a all right so art important to look at Art uh fashion Tech

25:19

interactive garments something that’s existed for a long time Oscar Schlemmer triadic ballet try to articulate all of

25:26

that b is for biofabrication so when we’re looking at Fashion Tech we really

25:31

have to look at other fields that are engaging this is the work of Suzanne Lee via bio Couture so she creates

25:38

biological textiles and fashions C is for collaboration so we mentioned

25:43

anukavi Pike earlier on she’s really uh capitalized or like really like led the

25:49

way to how a fashion Tech designer could work with Intel could work with shapeways could work uh with

25:57

um various different companies to develop things could work with Engineers of course she’s not the only one but

26:02

it’s one example uh D is for design so we need good design when we talk about

26:07

fashion Tech Montreal has Ying GAO at UCam she’s one of the few fashion Tech

26:13

designers who are really approaching it from fashion and so her work is very seductive very considered in terms of

26:19

the fashion landscape uh e is for energy something that is

26:24

Keen and key to our daily lives something that fashion Tech is addressing this is the work of Pauline

26:29

van dongen she’s developing uh this is in collaboration with Phillips and also

26:35

with einhoven school a solar shirt which is uh a kind of a platform well

26:40

essentially to recharge your garments and making it somehow uh aesthetically I guess the videos don’t work but that’s

26:45

probably good for time uh F is for fashion so fashion as we know is not just the the Garment it’s not just the

26:52

item it’s also uh it is a hierarchy it is a kind of law system you’re in you’re

26:58

out this is the wonderful work of Otto von Bush he’s at Parsons and he creates these performances with fashion police

27:05

fashion bullying are we in are we out how do we fit into that ecology because it’s you know a rough world out there uh

27:13

G is for Gadget I mean God Only Knows uh and uh Joey barazowska is here who’s

27:18

also a colleague at Concordia we talked about where wearables and it meant all kinds of things and then all of a sudden

27:23

Apple you know showed up and said hey it’s a watch you know it’s a it’s a wrist thing you stick it on your wrist

27:29

or maybe on your head uh but perhaps not anywhere else on your body and I would argue that it’s larger than that but

27:35

that’s a really important space for it um H is for health so of course we’re

27:40

looking to wearables to give us to provide us with new ways of self-monitoring of distance monitoring

27:47

of leading Better Lives more aware lives om singal is a Montreal company that has

27:54

developed a biometric shirt so that’s one of the platforms for that I is for

28:00

interaction is that right did I get it right okay yeah so this is a wonderful piece uh by benaz uh farahi which is the

28:08

caress of the gays so the Garment actually reacts to uh your presence to your looking at it it responds like it

28:15

like an animal who might sort of like shiver and move around so how do we create conversations that are you know

28:22

completely visual completely kinetic a whole new platform for that uh J’s for

28:27

jewelry so you know beyond Gadget which might appeal to more of a kind of male sector jewelry uh they’ve really tried

28:34

to kind of uh Market Jewelry accessories so again we’re back on the wrist but we’re looking at how can it be a luxury

28:40

item and there’s tons of this out there K is for knitting knitting is a really important part of developing smart

28:47

Fabrics smart textiles and new ways of producing uh fashion Tech Nike developed

28:53

its Flyknit running shoe which is all made of one piece so zero waste so kind of like an interesting Direction L is

29:00

for laboratory where we make things and we’ve discussed this a little bit so far is really key to what will be made it

29:07

was you know one of the chapters in my dissertation is really looking at these epistemic cultures and how the

29:13

laboratory shapes the outcome not just the tools but the culture the philosophy the ideas behind it Autodesk pure nine

29:20

so Autodesk which started as a software company is going into the real world that should give us kind of an idea that

29:27

there’s a big shift in terms of digital media we’re going into fabrication and Pier 9 is one of the key places where a

29:34

lot of emergent wearable tech is being developed in this state-of-the-art laboratory Makerspace

29:41

M is for maker so we all know what that is and it’s really key to propelling the field

29:46

n is for nanotech um it’s perhaps a field that’s less

29:52

accessible to the everyday maker but it’s a field that is impacting the shape of things to come so this is a kind of

29:59

speculative design would you be willing to have a telephone in an implanted tooth you know a provocation like how

30:06

far are we willing to go in terms of wearable tech will we wear it inside our bodies O is for open design so a lot of e-text

30:14

styles a lot of fashion Tech production is being done because we have new platforms that are accessible that

30:21

they’re open to many people this is Lily Pad Arduino developed by Leia Buckley who’s now at the high low Tech Lab at

30:27

MIT but this is stuff that any kid can buy on the internet and make themselves and so it really you know gives an

30:34

opportunity for people to have a conversation to be part of that conversation and these are some of my works that have used that platform as

30:42

democratizing that field in an aesthetic way peace for performance uh you there are

30:48

so many ways in which uh computerized fashion can be a platform for expression

30:54

this is the wonderful work of chicks on speed they essentially have really capitalized on creating instruments in

31:01

this case um this is uh Alex Murray’s work so she’s created uh instrument instrumental

31:07

instrument shoes that one can perform with so Transforming Our idea of the

31:13

instrument the body and fashion all in one swoop Q is for quality versus

31:18

quantity because we sort of have two spectrums that are both happening in fashion and Technology do we want

31:25

something refined something bespoke or are we just going to go the way of more

31:31

is better and this happens both in technology and both in fashion there’s a kind of a an alarming overflow of

31:38

products that we probably don’t want on our planet truth be told ours for rapid prototyping so how can 3D printing

31:45

Technologies create new forms new shapes new designs this is the work of Francis

31:51

bitanti he just spoke at the White House about design I mean like how cool is

31:56

that that you know all of a sudden things are moving forward and I’m sure any moment now we’ll be speaking to

32:02

Justin but uh you know this is based on uh cellular automata and how do you

32:08

create a shoe in combination with uh 3D printing and the effects of it this is

32:14

uh dietes and a beautiful dress we can’t see the video that really moves organically so we can build for the

32:20

whole body s is for storytelling if these objects don’t tell stories then

32:26

perhaps they really don’t have meaning in our worlds uh so this is an early piece that I made based on xiao’s fairy

32:33

tale called podon in which um the protagonist asks for impossible

32:38

dresses this one is made of the sky so it’s networked with a Weather Vein that blows up and fills up the dress all

32:44

depending on local data information T is for textiles or smart textiles in

32:50

this case so this is conductive embroidered thread that creates a circuit so we have threads that have

32:57

silver or conductive components this is done in collaboration with Foster Rohner a textile company that normally makes

33:04

lace for Dior but now they’re making fashion Tech U is for what did I say it was hard to

33:11

come up for user okay there’s a few that I had to kind of you know Jam in there uh user interfaces this is the fun work

33:17

of Tiffany trenda who’s looking at how do you uh how do you relate with an audience in terms of wearable technology

33:24

so she creates uh this one has sensor pads that people can access so she kind

33:29

of becomes an avatar who’s a real person and you can interact with her in this piece uh ubiquitous states she takes uh

33:37

your pulse so you can you touch her you don’t see her face but then you interact with a human being that is a bit kind of

33:43

robot cybernetic uh and you have a new kind of user relationship V is for

33:49

visualization so LEDs screens why not they’re on garments uh this was the work

33:55

of cute circuit with a Twitter uh no was it a Twitter app I think so that could

34:00

visualize Twitter feeds uh and um the work of Moritz valdemeyer who creates uh for lot of

34:08

these like boy bands these uh LED garments so you know like Bono and take that can have these funky jackets W is

34:16

for Waste every time someone asks me so wow amazing fashion Tech is going to save the world I just immediately think

34:23

of how incompatible that vision is with the kind of you know waste that we’re

34:29

creating we’re basically putting Electronics into textiles which is something that should be recyclable and we’re making it not recyclable so

34:36

obviously this is something that we’ll have to um you know to think about in the extremely near future extreme

34:43

environments drives oops a little sweaty finger here hold on

34:48

okay uh is driving a lot of research this is a wonderful spacesuit developed by uh Neva Newman from MIT to look at

34:56

how a three-dimensional spacesuit could make up for a more ergonomic experience

35:02

for space travel and I love that they tested it out on a woman I guess maybe their argument was like they’re more

35:08

curvy so I I don’t know you know but uh you know I I think it’s still um you

35:14

know it’s it’s a platform that always has a good argument you know firefighters space travel so on and so

35:19

forth I’m almost at the end Y is for you so how do you fit into uh that space and

35:26

this is a wonderful musical shoe made by Ricardo onacimento

35:31

um and uh Z which got a little bit slipped around there is for Big Data so

35:37

we can be sure that why big companies want to you know sell you wearables is

35:42

that they have access to a whole new data set um there we go A to Z thanks very much

35:49

thank you

35:55

um yeah you weren’t kidding when you said A diversity perspective so there’s a lot to a lot to take in

36:02

there and um I will just add um two more a words though because when we talk

36:07

about making and the potential and and and the areas that we’re starting to explore I think we always have to also

36:14

think about authenticity and appropriation um which in various ways I think are are

36:20

very large debates within all three of the areas that you’re talking about so I just throw that out there as well

36:27

um and I will um open do we have a microphone that can go around to people asking questions

36:33

okay um is there any questions you would like to ask each other first

36:38

I just want to pick up on that idea of authenticity because I I’m interested I

36:43

think authenticity and craft are both terms and ideas that come out of the

36:49

Enlightenment and that search for something authentic to Define how people

36:55

were feeling in the industrial revolution so I think it’s interesting that in our technological Revolution it’s resurging as a point of reference

37:04

so I mean appropriation is a whole other huge discussion but I’m just thinking of the authentic because it’s being

37:10

misappropriated just as words around craft are and it’s interesting with the rise of Technology whether you’re

37:16

encountering that in your research because you know what is authentic today becomes something people are really

37:23

after um absolutely I mean and and to kind of

37:29

I mean I think that it would be interesting because you were able to bring up some very kind of fundamental

37:34

questions about let’s say the authenticity of of craft or the the place of craft

37:39

within this kind of technological milieu where we’re kind of maybe on board I would suggest that in fashion Tech or

37:47

in architecture and Design people are trying to find ways to associate with technology they’re trying

37:52

to kind of bring technology into the front into the foreground I would suggest in lots of interesting ways and

37:59

this question coming from from your side the idea that

38:04

um technology might be suppressed in order to develop ideas about craft and

38:09

authenticity or place I think is really interesting so how how one maybe how

38:15

could how could there be so much let’s say hype about technology and some disciplines in such a in a way a kind of

38:21

a necessity for for its suppression in others it’s very maybe you could comment

38:26

on that because that those ideas I think were very uh provocative this craft what

38:31

were you calling it craft washer craft washing well it’s interesting because over the and Valerie you I interview

38:37

yeah go ahead well it’s just I’ve been teaching uh craft history for 17 years

38:44

now and it was about five years ago that my students stopped

38:51

caring about technology the debates used to be so intense that people would storm out of the classroom you know yelling

38:58

and screaming at each other about computers are going to be the death of craft and and people were really worked

39:03

up about it and it was about five years ago that you know I would say to a class the very same kind of question I thought

39:11

was provocative and they’d be like so so it is interesting how I think we’re

39:16

at we’re at a Tipping Point what I see happening that I think is disingenuous is how corporations

39:23

you know and that’s that to me to me when you’re talking about the makers it’s a different discussion than when

39:30

you’re talking about the corporations and Valerie I like to look at the it’s um I mean I I while I was researching my

39:36

dissertation I looked a lot at Fashion which I didn’t really have much of a kind of theoretical framework for it and

39:42

it was amazing like not only is there the coincidence that the idea of fashion like the idea not just stylistically but

39:49

that you have a fashion designer a voice a label emerges exactly at the same time

39:55

as as the technological Revolution you know so there are a lot of things that happen there that push and pull so one

40:02

of my case studies is and he’s like the first kind of like media sensation

40:07

Persona and he would have these big Harem part these theme parties and he’d

40:12

do photo shoots and films I mean he’s really like this multimedia designer artist you know I mean he’s doing

40:18

everything that like Carl Lagerfeld maybe does for you know uh Chanel in being a photographer and Muse and so on

40:24

and so forth but at the same time there was this anxiety around authenticity because people started copying the

40:31

moment that things uh you know got into the sort of the the popular hands uh

40:37

what would happen is he’d traveled to New York have trunk shows and then

40:42

people would copy his pieces so there began the idea in terms of DIY it’s super interesting of the pattern the

40:49

official authorized pattern so this is an official copy of a palpoire so he and

40:55

he had lawyers and copyright and so these thoughts have been with us for a long time and of course they also

41:01

converge in the world of technology but in terms of craft and making and then just a final note on Fashion Is that

41:07

even to this day we have these extreme Polar Opposites of like incredible

41:12

revolutionary Technologies of textiles and making hand in hand with exploitation of Labor or high-end

41:19

fashion couture where everything is handmade and hand embroidered and that the special room is still just so huge

41:25

fascinates me to this day that we have not resolved that for us economically or

41:31

socially or even conceptually in terms of what do we want in that from that space I just wanted to make a comment like a

41:37

parallel comment because we are sort of maybe there’s these parallel disciplines that one can sort of identify historical

41:42

precedence in and certainly um architects in the 20th century the really important modernist ones Le

41:48

corbusier and others were trying to produce a kind of industrially driven architecture that was built on mass

41:55

production that would be sort of forever for every for everybody’s use there would be all these really the focus was on the kind of commonalities in in and

42:01

around a translation to industrial production nowadays with the Advent of uh of of the kinds of technologies that

42:08

we’re working with today the arguments have been around what people are calling in the design the

42:13

design side like Mass customization where you can you know make a short runs

42:18

of of elements that might be in buildings or in products or parts or whatever that are are unique

42:24

um but that’s even spilled over now into from sort of software to Hardware you can start to set out design kind of

42:32

applets or routines that any person can go and use to produce a unique artifact and then with 3D printing make it

42:39

themselves or have it made so they so that there’s this kind of broadening of the kind of let’s say agency in in that

42:47

technology has has created and whether whether that’s a Christ I think it could be a crisis on the if one’s trying to

42:53

make a definition of craft but I’m just I like everybody can make that but Tom I

42:59

like your point because look our bustier and that idea of standardization there’s a utopian romantic vision of that that

43:07

when you read Le carbousse you’re like oh you’re gonna bold shows the center of Paris that’s not a good idea but you

43:13

know with hindsight I think we’re doing a similar thing today right this idea technology for all it’s utopian we can

43:19

we can help the world but what’s interesting about the hand is coming back to the hand Herman methusias was

43:26

writing about that as early as 1907 and and romanticizing the iron hand the

43:32

Germans were calling it The Iron hand because the iron hand was not not

43:39

separate from the Machinery that was frightening people but it was part of the Machinery so it you know it’s so

43:45

interesting to read Matthews over a century ago who’s articulating the very

43:51

same thoughts we’re using today but we’re just using different terminology but it’s the very same idea that that

43:57

machines you know this idea of Biometrics is going to improve your life

44:03

the world will standardize we’re all after the same kind of Ideal so you know it’s interesting like we’re still all

44:10

trying to deal with that idea of authenticity romanticization technology

44:16

but we just have a different set of of tools we’re using

44:25

a voice yeah we have a question well it was a bit

44:31

about going back to the idea of language and you talked a bit about craft washing

44:38

and I and I wondered if um maybe starting with you but but but um also from other disciplines as well

44:44

if you see kind of almost like a battle for a language between a kind of co-opting of language and then trying to

44:51

find new language to to somehow identify what you’re doing as a practitioner as a

44:56

so as this as you were showing this kind of idea of bespoke and these words come

45:01

up that then get let’s say co-opted or at least popularized to a point where they become almost meaningless and then

45:07

you have to find suddenly as a practitioner a new way to describe that have you you’ve seen that sort of cycle

45:13

happen but are you also seeing it in in these other disciplines as well I I’ll just briefly start you are a hundred

45:20

percent right in fact um there’s a new campaign that’s been well it’s a year old now it’s been

45:26

launched by um craft Ontario and the Canadian craft Federation it’s called citizens of craft

45:32

it’s a campaign with a Manifesto for that reason exactly Ryan the word craft

45:39

being co-opted wholesale by corporations and really being abused in terms of how

45:45

it’s being applied is of deep concern to professional craftspeople because you

45:51

know on the one hand the general public is becoming indoctrinated with words like artisanal but then on the other

45:57

hand they’re like what what does this mean right like artisanal bread is everywhere being mass produced so so the

46:05

citizens of craft campaign is about the word and it’s about taking the word back and it’s interesting because we have uh

46:13

designed it to align with words like local Global or local organic fair trade

46:19

so that sense of ownership so it’s interesting when you enter into policy

46:25

making around words that’s very you know it gets really political really interesting

46:31

uh absolutely so it was a Mika satomi who is a kind of a textile engineer and

46:38

at a conference once because they think a lot about craft they have this wonderful uh website called how to get

46:43

what you want which is a lot of craft examples of making electronic components and sensors and she pointed out or at

46:51

least her argument was that all of this anxiety around craft is probably because

46:57

we suck at it more than ever and uh and which is maybe partly true I mean when I

47:04

look at the sweaters that my 92 year old grandma made you know without thought or concern as to where it fit into the

47:11

world where everyone knew how to how to knit how to bake how to artisanal this

47:16

and craft that without having to name it so this hyper anxiety around probably

47:22

the loss of that is maybe what is making it research so

47:28

um I don’t know maybe maybe that’s sort of counter but I I would argue that when

47:33

I ask my day-to-day students to craft something I’m sometimes astounded at how

47:38

low the bar is for them in terms of what they consider I mean they just consider

47:44

the fact that they made it by hand to be like enough you know uh yeah so in my field that’s how I’ve

47:52

seen it I have that trouble with my own kids like oh Dad isn’t this a great drawing and I’m like

47:57

um but teaching teaching undergraduates in architecture which I’ve done for for many many many years

48:03

um we’re really um I’ve been doing it long enough that there’s a kind of a generation of students the ones that

48:09

were kind of coming into schools in the in the early 2000s they actually had some hand drawing skills we we would

48:15

like with authority give them you know tasks about making models represent representation in architecture really is

48:21

about the the drawing and the model making these various accoutrement of the design process that you really that have

48:28

been time-honored over over many years and suddenly those things that are giving way like the the students they

48:33

not only can they not you know they can’t write with their they can’t write with a pen anymore they can’t do cursive

48:39

they cannot really cut a straight line with an X-Acto Knife they can there’s all these things that they they can’t do

48:44

and yet they’re um you know it’s it’s very interesting because we’re in this kind of ether where I I think we’re at

48:50

the center of a kind of maelstrom and then and and there may be that some some uh agreed upon techniques will arise out

48:58

of this period that we’re in or maybe not just a quick comment because again coming from the design side more on the

49:04

kind of theoretical side trying to address this question of of craft and authenticity

49:10

um we’re we’re there seems to be a kind of moment that we’re in where

49:15

multi-disciplinarity has become you know not everyone wants it but it’s also it’s

49:20

inevitable it seems in the face of these tools that a lot of different people can have access to and use in different ways

49:26

and so I’m noticing the on the professional architecture side at the Ontario Association of Architects

49:32

they’re kind of panicking because the purvey of Architects is now giving way to these kinds of things given these new

49:38

tools that a lot of other people can do and and as an architect with my architect had I’d say oh but we’re

49:43

professionals we’ve been trained you need to listen to us and nobody’s really listening and they’re becoming irrelevant and there may or may not be

49:49

in the discussion at all um and in the meantime terms like uh you

49:54

know bespoke vernacular there’s in my more immediate world of of design and

50:01

Technology there’s always I mentioned one guy James Stevens his his book is called digital vernacular and really

50:08

it’s it predictably it’s very interesting but it’s predictably it’s like how there’s there’s this essential

50:13

importance in this term this word the vernacular and we can co-opt it in a certain way and I don’t think it’s I

50:19

don’t think it’s necessary to use that term vernacular for what he was talking about as far as unpacking and repacking

50:26

laser cutters and 3D printers I don’t know and the other term that that you mentioned that’s come up and absolutely

50:31

comes up constantly in the fashion side is is the bespoke maybe five years ago everything was like the architecture of

50:38

the bespoke and like oh are we doing physical buildings now like what’s your inseam because we need to I mean I’m so

50:44

I’m not sure whether that we’re not like let’s say in a kind of a Maelstrom where these people are trying on all these

50:50

things or whether this or some New Order might emerge out of this yeah well I I

50:56

did I spoke with Ryan a few days ago and I did mention that my my whole dissertation argument was actually

51:02

completely counter to our this morning’s topic which was the approach that I took

51:08

was non-linguistic because um this sort of notion that inscriptions

51:13

could really frame what’s happening right now um seem to me to be problematic so I of

51:19

course I still use words but in this case no I did a performance but I used

51:25

the word performance um which is being used a lot in Science

51:30

Tech technology in society and the research what kind of sociological research of laboratory cultures to

51:37

describe what happens in Laboratories and so people like Andrew Pickering a

51:43

car nor satina Karen barad looking at ways in which you can explain what

51:48

happens in the laboratory as a human non-human performance and that perhaps that can provide us with a different

51:55

lens or a different understanding of that framework which is not really cemented in one idea but it really

52:02

unfolding over time and also unfolding over the negotiation of the agency of

52:07

like materials so anyone who’s a maker we know you know it’s hard to get that

52:12

thing to do what you want it to do you know versus you know our kind of like framework of where we want to go with it

52:19

so how do you negotiate you know the agency of like you know a stone or a conductive wire uh you know or a textile

52:27

versus your agency as a maker to enact that vision and maybe because Mass customization is something that’s like

52:33

brought up a lot in fashion Tech and the future of retail you know we’ll all just go and pick out what we want and we’ll

52:40

all have bespoke this and that although of course they’re kind of like Cookie Cutter templates um but you know maybe there’s a

52:46

different framework in which we can better understand what’s happening in terms of that negotiation and that it’s

52:52

a lot more confusing and messy than we give it credit for when we like have it with this kind of web screen or web

52:59

interface that makes simplifies it and I just want to you that idea of customization and ownership I want to go

53:05

back to the point Stephen made earlier about appropriation we were talking at breakfast about this because I’m also

53:11

seeing where the students no longer are interested in a really a raucous debate

53:16

about technology uh increasingly there are levels of cross-cultural

53:22

appropriation happening that Shock Me so you know to part of what’s happening

53:28

with the bespoke customization is a sense of global ownership so if I want

53:34

to use an indigenous Motif it doesn’t matter that I’m not you know Algonquin I’m just going to use it so it becomes

53:43

to me you know back to Ryan’s point about you know staking claim over words like craft it’s also very interesting as

53:51

as those things morph out so do certain cultural forms of appropriation and

53:57

every once in a while there’ll be a slap on the hand like Urban Outfitters using the Navajo pattern but more often than

54:04

not you know it’s interesting because I’m just I think it was Adidas did that line of Maori wear and you know that was

54:12

part of their new technology line so you know it gets all messed up no no

54:19

um just before I open it up to the audience I do want to thank Tom for really introducing uh you know an

54:25

unexplored Topic in art history and that is the critique of refrigerator art and

54:31

I think that that’s its own Symposium um so anybody who wants to take that one on I’m I’m in there you know yeah yeah

54:40

it’s like the ones you put on there by your kids it’s like no I really want to get at the heart of that

54:46

so sorry because that was a really interesting discussion I had to take out that little bit that just appealed to me

54:53

first person um so I’ll open it up for other questions

55:06

um it’s not matured so it’s going to be very confused question so I hope that’s okay

55:12

um you I come from the other side of the

55:18

digital which is the online and virtual and I work in Virtual museums and

55:24

virtual exhibits and everything that you’ve talked about is anchored in the

55:30

physical um and I was wondering if you had any thoughts you alluded to the Dress which

55:36

was a Twitter dress which maybe Bridges towards the virtual

55:41

um but you have any thoughts about those Blended experiences and

55:49

um for example in museums and in exhibits we do a lot of Blended experiences where

55:56

you will have something physical that people can experience designed by designers by

56:02

Architects Etc that is also available online

56:07

and online there’s the sidebar of co-creation of

56:16

um you know the the high school Museum in in Holland does a wonderful work with

56:23

um your own studio so you could create artwork so I know I’m going in different directions but it it’s that I’m a little

56:30

surprised that there was nothing about digital the other side of digital which is digital products and there’s a lot of

56:37

work being done in the Digital World online well I think

56:44

oh there you go so I will articulate my question better for later um but this

56:51

whole whole problem of authenticity and appropriation I would argue that some of it has to do with the fact that so much

56:58

production is virtually made so fashion designers rely on as Architects I’m I

57:05

assume but you correct me if I’m wrong you know like very sophisticated algorithms that will kind of like you

57:11

know produce the Garment that they need and then it gets sent off to a mysterious place and then it comes back

57:17

as a fully formed thing without uh many questions asked so that’s one aspect of virtual which I think is a detriment to

57:24

craft to a certain extent but then it is a new door opening so I don’t know I mean I’m I’m of two minds about it

57:30

because there are other there’s a company called uh I think it’s actually called unmade it’s a knitting company

57:36

that’s a startup in the UK and you know you can kind of have a customized

57:41

knitwear and an interface and it’s artists so there’s a lot of nice initiatives the second thing I would say

57:46

about virtual is that the whole retail space in terms of how we consume fashion

57:52

and products is about to go in that direction so we’ve seen people never thought they would buy stuff on the

57:58

internet you know I’m of course now we buy a lot of things on the internet and so we’re looking at interfacing how that

58:05

experience can be augmented and how we can be more fully situated in that space

58:11

in terms of let’s say fashion consumers or other kinds of consumers and how the store space let’s say in terms of

58:18

fashion will become more experiential than really about shopping so it will be more about visualization about situating

58:25

yourself so there’s a whole research around that that’s really big and it’s a it’s happening now so I would agree it’s

58:32

a really large topic area and it’s sort of it tends to kind of reside in parallel to the discussion that let’s

58:37

say from this panel or this conference is coming from the perspective of making and let’s say the spaces of making Etc

58:43

and trying to to deal with the implications of this sort of digital world that we we now live in but just a

58:49

couple of comments about that and again this isn’t so much what we were focusing on but there are now increasingly

58:55

accessible kind of a AR or augmented reality environment so I had a chance with a a graduate course I was teaching

59:02

at Waterloo to experience this HTC vibe in this kind of working interface where you’re you’re actually in a kind of

59:08

digital room and you have these tools that are unbelievable tools but just the

59:14

programs so I was working in this thing was kind of like Photoshop but you could make these objects in and around your

59:20

body it was really magical and so the these these interfaces are just they are

59:25

literally coming on stream with at a really rapid pace and are going to just I suppose they’re really going to change

59:30

everything but uh that’s one side so the the idea that from the like I’ve made a

59:36

brief mention of it in having to stage and set out these maker spaces I I’ve

59:42

resolved and again I and I hope Co and his group here at Argent engine do the same to to make it such that the

59:49

fabrication lab shouldn’t just be for making prototypes and artifacts but rather it should be a kind of

59:55

quasi-immersive space and there’s certain things that we’re looking at technically over at Ryerson to do that

1:00:00

like a ceiling grid and blackout blinds and things like that and there’s some level things because a big Kuka robot

1:00:06

it’s on a track and so if there was a performance they might like trip over the track if they’re trying to dance

1:00:11

with a robot or whatever but the idea that that it could be interesting that these types of preoccupations could

1:00:17

start to converge and then lastly the the guy that I also mentioned this sort of really high-end facade design person

1:00:22

he had no problem with the fact with the reality that there would be thousands of people beavering away in remote

1:00:28

locations on kind of common files in order to produce these really complex geometries for a building that

1:00:36

none of the people working on it might ever really see so they wouldn’t be drawing one line but rather they’re working in a kind of a coding

1:00:42

environment to to do uh properties for for components and so I think in a way

1:00:48

like there’s a a if we’re if the step to from these various disciplines and

1:00:53

terminologies towards some kind of common agendas around craft and making and technology is a small step there’s

1:01:00

the step like towards this broader thing that this kind of like AI that we’re

1:01:06

going to be faced with in in the next next number of years about how we really deal with like the the digital when it

1:01:14

really becomes more profound and pronounced is is really is really difficult and just very lastly like

1:01:20

Edward britinsky’s running a lab out of what Ryerson called the think to thing and they are he’s again bringing all of

1:01:28

his uh expertise around images and image capture to the creation of of artifacts

1:01:35

and so his group think to thing or having conferences and they’re talking to curators and they’re discussing these

1:01:42

sort of hybrid like physical replication artifacts for museums and then their digital uh you know digital libraries

1:01:48

where those things are going to also exist and that’s also very interesting but again coming from the making side those guys as well I’m so glad you

1:01:54

brought up the kind of curatorial aspect of things because I think with craft

1:01:59

especially Ceramics for example it’s always been displayed under glass so that idea of not being able to interface

1:02:06

with an object is just part of Museum history so so this idea of tech new

1:02:12

technologies opens up I think some really exciting Avenues and and I know it’s frustrating whenever I curate a

1:02:19

show and then you’ve got this amazing object that you can handle and all of a sudden it’s on a plinth and then the glass is placed over you ah so so like

1:02:27

you’re saying the possibility of doing a digital fabrication of something relatively cheaply and relatively

1:02:33

quickly that that people can handle is amazing amazing and then online to be

1:02:39

able to go in the round I cannot believe how exciting it is to go into Museum

1:02:45

Collections and then see objects at the bottom the top in the round and then to have access to the those images for

1:02:52

teaching like I love it I think it’s amazing very sophisticated

1:03:00

but it’s really going into a very interesting yeah but that has it has its

1:03:05

real challenges as well I mean certainly a new area of legal scholarship is

1:03:11

around what how does this exist this object made completely digitally and and

1:03:17

because our certainly our copyright laws have not kept up to this so this is an area that is going to have to be dealt

1:03:23

with at what point do you become the maker do you hold some kind of copyright and then we get into authenticity and

1:03:30

appropriation because can I just copy something that already exists what does it become then and then you also get I

1:03:37

mean around the whole interacting in completely in the digital environment so

1:03:42

we’ve had legal cases about people interacting on second life with you know uh so there was divorce cases that were

1:03:49

involved in this and and you know what at what point does this person you create I mean it’s just a fascinating

1:03:54

area but no government wants to touch it and so it’s it’s leading to difficulties

1:04:00

for museums and galleries especially because there would be very so very careful of those kind of topics but I

1:04:07

that’s a whole area of real interest what’s interesting about uh that the idea of handling in the museum is that

1:04:12

if you could if you could imitate replicate an object that is generally

1:04:17

unhandleable and then suddenly everybody can handle it where what is the authentic experience of the object is

1:04:24

the authentic experience reside in being able to handle and experience the object and maybe even use it or does it reside

1:04:29

when it’s an original these ideas of originality can be subverted with with all kinds of ways but I’m leading us off

1:04:35

into uh sorry we’re going to wrap up in a few minutes yeah that’s right Walter benjamini and photograph and the aura so

1:04:44

that’s nothing new really we’ve always been able to reproduce and

1:04:49

how has that impact impacted the object so it’s not just a digital sure I’m I am

1:04:55

going to we’re going to wrap up in a minute because people need a break and then we’ll need to come back so I will

1:05:00

let the panel have a little moment to wrap up

1:05:06

I was going to say you know kids they scan wasn’t it Nefertiti’s head and then they printed her in 3D and so I was

1:05:13

going to say it’s happening and then I think it’s about where you position yourself so uh the reichs museum in

1:05:19

Amsterdam was closed for a long time reopened and every single artifact in the museum is open free of use of any

1:05:26

use period whereas most museums that I go to now in Canada all of a sudden I can’t take photos anymore I used to go

1:05:33

with my son and our game was to like we would stage performance installations in front of art pieces and photograph

1:05:39

ourselves and a way of interacting with the artwork and now we’ve locked that down so I don’t know which is better but

1:05:45

the debate is on that’s for sure in terms of our relationship with these objects from a museum standpoint anyhow

1:05:51

I just wanted to wrap up by saying I mean I think these questions of authenticity and objects are fascinating but I also wanted to just make a a bit

1:05:58

of a a summary comment or pitch for the these the the evolution of these you

1:06:04

know technology-enabled spaces and and I think Valerie’s comment earlier that you know there’s terms that we use and we

1:06:12

sometimes misuse or we try to keep defining by discussions like this there’s the terminology but in a sense

1:06:17

what we demonstrate or what we show or what people can experience I think is really stands for for a lot and so what

1:06:23

I what I’ve been really advocating for at Ryerson and in my teaching is to not

1:06:29

only I talked a ton and I’m constantly talking but the fact is there’s there’s the artifacts themselves generally

1:06:37

speaking when I give a lecture about technology and these these new enabling spaces I bring a bunch of artifacts I

1:06:42

should have brought some today 3D prints various pieces of models Etc that start to become a bit more exemplary finally

1:06:48

or could are a good in addition to whatever terms or words are being used to start to describe the outputs Etc and

1:06:54

I think it’s increasingly important one of my technicians at design fabrication Zone he went off to do a PhD at

1:06:59

Princeton he went to sort of uh you know for to pursue his own career but he was very preoccupied about with the the kind

1:07:07

of setting up of the lab so that when people come through they can get a kind of feel for what you’re doing a little

1:07:12

bit under the hood or behind the scenes and I thought that was really inauthentic for a while but then I started to realize that in fact that

1:07:19

that’s quite important um when I worked brief for a period of time uh in the late 90s at Frank Gary’s office and it

1:07:25

was a at that time his office was in Santa Monica Under One Roof there were constantly tours of interested parties

1:07:32

and dignitaries and famous people being kind of paraded through the place to see what we were doing and what we were doing in that office was literally

1:07:38

building these gigantic amazing kind of messy models art scale model artifacts

1:07:44

of these projects and so for me the the part of my mandate and I think what’s really important is yeah we have to

1:07:50

continue to kind of Define the terminology but as as things change and they’re changing very quickly we I think

1:07:56

should keep an eye on being demonstrative not only of the final products or or or spaces that we’re

1:08:02

creating but rather the kind of techniques and the the workflows that you know are kind of going into those

1:08:08

and trying to be as transparent about those as possible I think is really key so people can understand

1:08:14

and I just want to finish with the idea of back to the hand and skill I mean I love these debates but I think the fact

1:08:21

that will never change is that when somebody’s really a skilled maker no

1:08:26

matter what technology you’re using you’ll still blow people’s minds that’s what they want to come and see that’s what they’re going to respond to so you

1:08:33

know whether whether we can figure out a way to make it leap from the digital world into our real world or not when

1:08:39

somebody makes something and is skilled at it you still get so excited

1:08:46

well I want to thank Sandra Tom and Valerie um it’s been a wonderful conversation I

1:08:52

hope it continues on during the day thank you to everybody for your questions and for listening and uh I

1:08:59

think we’ll have a little break now and then come back for the second panel so thank you guys [Applause]

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