0:16

um I’m going to talk a little bit about myself but I just wanted to say before can you hear me no okay so should I do

0:25

that I can pull it out okay

0:32

okay so I just thought I would sum up the last session because what we did learn for the people who are not in the

0:40

know about sort of digital technology there was a lot of new vocabulary that

0:45

was bantered around which I loved and that would be e-textiles fashion Tech uh

0:51

did you digi-fab ecosystem which I thought thank you Tom that was a great term to think about and I also love the

0:59

fact that Sandra how you use the word unhanded as a verb unhanding this is

1:05

going to be the craft washing the unhanding these are going to be the takeaway buzzwords that we’re going to

1:11

have and that we’re going to learn about and use and this is going to be so important about this conference I also

1:18

like the fact that everyone on the panel on the previous panel sort of had their own kind of pet peeves and and I and I’m

1:25

going to welcome these panelists to um share their pet peeves and I’m going to give you a few of mine the one where

1:32

word that is also really overused is the word curating and everything is a

1:38

curated experience and I have been a curator in craft and design for over 20 years so I’m a little bit miffed when I

1:45

hear that um I also thought we would talk about our children and now we’re not all going to be grumpy people complaining about oh

1:52

the kids today but it is true that they are losing their hand and motor skills

1:57

and one thing that they’re they also can’t use are keys so now we have cars that don’t are keyless cars right which

2:04

are very frustrating so this is part of our digital new Society so that’s sort of what we learned from

2:10

the last session and much more than that but um before we move on I will tell you a little bit about myself

2:17

um I was the founding curator at uh the design Exchange in Toronto when it first opened and so

2:24

at that time there was really no Tech digital technology we didn’t even have email or computers so I would say and I

2:31

really realized this by uh participating and watching the panel listening to the panels this morning is that I have been

2:38

witnessing the sort of the digital Revolution on Craft and design for the last 20 years and it’s been very

2:45

exciting so as the curator at the design exchange I wrote the book design in Canada and what I did know and what I’ve

2:54

noticed is that because there was such a lack of a strong industrial design

2:59

manufacturing community in Canada that there has always been a Synergy between

3:04

craft and design and mass production and I’ve always called it sort of industrial

3:10

craft so this has been going on and this is our history and it continues to be that way more recently I’ve been

3:17

affiliated with the the Gardner Museum as as chief greater and now as adjunct

3:23

curator and one of the last exhibitions I did there again is so different from

3:28

the past it was and I didn’t bring slides because I was encouraged not to but I showcased the work of an artist

3:35

named Claire to me and what Claire did Claire is from Britain and she is very

3:41

much about working in multiples so she will fill a room and create a thousand

3:46

objects to create an environmental space and she will use it you she’ll be able

3:52

to do this through digital technology so what she did for us at The Gardener Museum and it really is all about making

3:59

and hand making is she a Digi she it was stereo lithography so she digitized

4:05

three beautiful 18th century mycen porcelain figures and then she made

4:11

molds of them and then she slipped cast a thousand of them to fill the gallery

4:18

floor then she presents did the three Originals on very very high vitrines or

4:25

display cases to sort of elevate their iconic status she then invited makers to actually make

4:34

and uh these figurines on site an hour a day so the collection built

4:42

um to 2000 objects so the whole exhibition installation clear to me piece by piece was really about thinking

4:49

about craft production digitization the museum and fetishizing of the object so

4:55

that is how far we’ve come I also want to mention that I teach industrial design history at

5:02

Sheridan College and that is a brand new Pro program and it’s been led by one of

5:08

Canada’s leading industrial designers Scott Lawton and this is a first for Sheridan because Sheridan as many of you

5:14

know opened in 1967 to really sort of lead in the crafts of glass and Ceramics

5:21

and furniture and they still are leaders in many ways but to they’ve situated an

5:27

industrial design part department right in the same uh Corridor with the craft

5:32

makers and there is a lot of synergy going on so it is an exciting time for

5:38

us and I think we’ll see a lot more in the future I also want to before I introduce our

5:44

illustrious panel I just want to tell some people in the audience or many of you probably already know this but there

5:51

has been some very um important Works uh and this conference really follows on

5:57

the heels of it the Museum of Art and Design the Mad Museum which dropped the

6:02

title of craft and it’s uh name because I thought craft was no longer sexy did a

6:09

very important exhibition called out of hand and uh and that was all about the

6:16

sort of the idea of objects uh being made using digital Technologies there

6:22

was also a new book if you want to see it uh or purchase it and it’s um teams

6:27

in Hudson and it’s very accessible and it’s called the digital handmade so to

6:32

prepare for this conference I sort of returned to those books and I looked at them and this is what um came across

6:40

this is what I saw and you may not like to hear this that some of you makers is

6:45

I saw that digital technology for uh whether you’re an industrial designer or

6:50

a craft maker is something it’s a muse and it’s it’s a very exciting uh way a

6:58

tool to find new forms it’s a process and so consequently ironically maybe we

7:06

have returned to the postmodern era because we are seeing almost a return of

7:13

historical uh Revival but now been distorted and manipulated so we have Neo

7:20

Art Nouveau or Neo Baroque or because it can be done so

7:26

well and it’s exciting to see but to me it’s a bit problematic it’s not cultural

7:32

Pro appropriation that we were talking about in the first session but it is a return to um a reboot of if you will of

7:40

historical styling so what I hope our panels will do today or or what we’ll

7:46

discuss today in fact is not just simply how we’re doing this but why you know

7:53

it’s not just about form following process rather than form following function that old famous dictum it’s

8:00

something more than that and I think we are now reaching a stage where we are also familiar with digital technologies

8:07

that we can sort of go beyond looking at really neat things so with um no further Ado I have to

8:15

sorry go back to my iPad to introduce our wonderful speakers so here we have um hang on

8:24

Greg Sims and he is a wonderful jewelry designer and I urge you to I think he’ll

8:30

be showing us some of his work but he uses a lot of Whimsy and and insight

8:36

into his um practice uh he is an artist a teacher who’s based in Toronto he

8:43

teaches at ocad he has studied and taught at nascad and it is really

8:51

exciting to have him here today our next speaker and this is the problem

8:57

with my digital technology is Johanna baraska and did I say your

9:03

name right I don’t and who teaches at Concordia right and um okay I have to

9:10

then because I can’t do your introductions but I’m going to have to let you introduce yourselves that’s

9:17

Joanna why don’t you just give a little bit about your bio and then I’ll let um uh our our last be girls so as you’ll

9:25

see from my presentation later I work with electronic textiles both in

9:30

research context developing materials for future textiles as well as an

9:36

industrial context developing biometric undergarments

9:43

yeah my name is garnet Hertz and I work at amla Carr university in industrial

9:51

design I work in electronic art and I’m Canada Research chair and design in

9:57

media art so Greg

10:06

[Music] I’ll see if that works is that okay or

10:13

foreign

10:19

thanks Rachel um I first of all I did want to say thank you to Ryan and Remco just for

10:26

inviting me to speak today and thank you all for coming um

10:32

oh okay I’ll try to coordinate it

10:38

um so I teach at ocad University I my background’s in jewelry but I also teach a lot of digital fabrication

10:45

courses both undergraduate and at the grad graduate level

10:51

juggle these things [Music]

10:57

so I’m just going to jump right into the presentation oops

11:04

starting out in the field of jewelry I vowed that I would never use the process of casting and mold making

11:11

seeing it as directly responsible for all of the Bland and boring jewelry that

11:16

crowded display cases and Shop windows I preferred to work directly with the

11:22

materials fabricating pieces in silver gold and gemstones somehow seeing this

11:28

approach as more authentic it wasn’t until I came across an idea for a set of wedding bands this one here

11:35

requiring casting that I came around to the idea that it wasn’t the technique or

11:40

the materials alone that defined a piece but rather what you did with them it was

11:46

how they were handled and presented that made them successful or not

11:51

by knowing many materials and processes intricately one could Master them combine and employ them in ways that

11:58

others had not the more you knew the more opportunities having a full understanding allowed you

12:05

to push the limits a basic knowledge and limited hands-on experience required you to work within

12:11

the rules

12:17

I adopted digital ways of working seeing the potential to become more efficient and precise

12:23

lucky for me the evidence of handiwork or as I sometimes call it busy work was

12:29

never strongly valued in jewelry to me evidence of how a material had

12:34

been worked or processed came through in other ways in the strength of the idea and how well

12:40

it was conveyed we often hear the adoption of digital

12:46

techniques described as just another tool that may be true early on but to

12:53

describe digital making Technologies as just another tool seems rather naive

12:59

digital design and digital fabrication have completely transformed the way objects are perceived exist and come

13:06

into being a virtual object can be reconfigured in with infinite outcomes

13:11

the basic premise of building successive layers can be applied to any form however complex

13:18

and to virtually any material it’s more than just a tool

13:26

I’m always excited by work that shows a level of understanding and interaction with the digital exploring new

13:33

possibilities in 2013 my colleague Jesse Jackson and I

13:39

organized and curated I’m scared to use that word now but um

13:45

making uh the name of the exhibition was making it real and we saw it out artists and designers

13:53

that were working in this way and who recognized that the rapid prototyping era of digital fabrication and additive

13:59

manufacturing was an old way of thinking objects chosen for this exhibition were

14:06

no longer just models and prototypes but had Advanced sufficiently to be considered the final material object

14:14

the design process material makeup and methods of production offered completely new outcomes that took advantage of new

14:21

technologies and distinguished themselves from what had come before

14:29

many of the designers recognized that these materials and forms had great potential to hold and express meanings

14:36

in different ways to be engineered assembled in combination with more traditional

14:42

processes Doug booch’s eyelet necklace deriving its structure from Medical Data relating

14:49

to diabetic blood sugar readings is an SLS nylon print whose porous surface is perfectly suited

14:56

to accept colorful fabric dyes JC carrick’s headphones are assembled

15:02

straight off the printer with a couple of added magnets and speaker wires the same nylon material is engineered

15:09

with varying structures throughout allowing both rigid and flexible areas as well as snapping mechanisms for quick

15:16

assembly over time I have noticed that the digital has become a Common Language

15:22

promoting interdisciplinary interdisciplinarity and collaboration

15:27

it can be a unifying thread allowing different disciplines to come together cross over and reinterpret

15:41

I am also encouraged to see that some of the most challenging work adopts a craft approach to creating where artists

15:48

designers and researchers are engaged directly with the Technologies and materials

15:54

here are some more recent examples of this exciting exploration between the digital and the material

16:02

Eric clarenbeeks mycelium project investigates the potential of growing living organisms in the production of

16:09

furniture the chair is created by 3D printing a combination

16:14

of a pla plastic shell infilled with a slurry of local organic yard waste and

16:20

mycelium fungus the fungus acts as a binder growing into the rigid mold form provided once fully

16:27

grown and dried the mycelium becomes a structural stable and renewable material

16:34

the mushrooms that grow outside of the structure are described by Clarin beak as decorative jewels

16:45

nervous system takes advantage of generative modeling and 3D printing Technologies to create a range of

16:51

household and wearable products each individual and fully customized for and

16:57

by the consumer their kinematics project creates a system whereby any 3D form can be

17:03

transformed into a flexible hinge structure objects are made accessible to Consumers

17:08

through an online interface by keying in in information and manipulating nodes

17:14

the consumer generates a personalized jewelry object that can then be saved printed and shipped

17:23

perhaps a perfect illustration of the new material possibilities revealed by the digital experimentation is emerging

17:31

objects take on the Utah T set referencing Martin Newell’s teapot one

17:37

of the first 3D computer models created for graphic rendering from the teapot’s digital incarnation in

17:44

1975 emerging objects arrived some 40 years later at an appropriate physical

17:50

representation the teapot is 3D printed using powdered tea

17:59

emerging objects is pioneering research in 3D printing using natural materials

18:04

from small objects all the way up to architectural installations materials printed include coffee tea

18:12

salt sugar paper cement and more

18:17

the fear of the digital ways of making would somehow further disconnect us seems not to be the case

18:23

artists and designers are finding creative ways to process materials that make us more connected and a part of

18:29

things around us and not apart from

18:46

well digitally produced objects and materials can sometimes appear Stark and

18:51

void of human connection it is what we do with them throughout the process that will create meaningful objects relating

18:58

to and connecting with people the digital can help us to perceive and understand objects in new ways

19:07

if we pay attention there are Limitless ways to interpret and process the information and present it back

19:14

imaginatively it is what an individual brings to the technology that will make

19:20

it transformative and successful

19:26

objects do not need to carry the mark of the tool or the machine for us to feel a connection

19:32

it is all of the fascinating New Revelations as this information is processed into material outcomes that

19:38

offers new insight to the things around us there is a vast potential for objects to

19:45

connect us to relate to convey our thoughts and ideas to reflect and interact and tell

19:51

stories about our lives we no longer just bring objects into our lives we can insert ourselves into these

19:58

objects and our experience with them becomes more meaningful because of it thank you

20:05

[Applause]

20:13

I am next [Music]

20:19

all right so as I mentioned earlier I work with electronic textiles which

20:27

um are a subset of this field of wearables as Valerie LaMontagne described this is

20:34

a term that actually encompasses an extremely broad range of projects and

20:40

practices everything from these like sticker sticker like electronic tattoos

20:46

to collaborative design experiments it’s actually a term that is really used for

20:54

a very very broad multitude of different work that relates to the body the

21:02

current commercial reality though is really still grounded in what we in in

21:08

the VC in the Venture Capital world called the early adopters so usually males of a certain age and socio

21:15

economic class who do a lot of exercise and want to track their performance

21:21

their Fitness levels so those various devices that are usually wrist worn

21:27

these days then connect to apps that track analyze compare and link to social

21:33

media other than these wrist worn devices there have been some experiments in

21:40

penetrating the rest of the body through jewelry like straps head mounted

21:47

displays Etc but in general the commercial field of wearables is

21:54

still deeply anchored in this industrial design device reality

22:02

so my work in contrast has been to focus on the rest of the body so to actually

22:09

engage with everything beyond the wrist I even talk about beyond the wrist

22:14

interaction and therefore to specifically look at textiles which are

22:19

materials we already engage with on our bodies on a day-to-day basis

22:25

um however to take those textiles and to push them further to augment them

22:33

to actually use traditional ways of making as much as possible but to

22:39

replace some of the core materials with a new

22:45

functional fibers so everything from very simple you know silver threads that

22:51

can then allow us to weave sensors into garments so I actually I work for om

22:56

signal in my spare time so I help to develop well I developed all the IP for

23:03

the um signal biometric shirts for actually the ways that we knit all of

23:08

the ECG the heart sensors and the breathing sensors into the shirts

23:13

themselves our first shirt was a Ralph Lauren branded Polo tech product

23:20

um what’s really important to me is to work as much as possible within the

23:27

tradition of making and Manufacturing manufacturing for the very reason that

23:34

we do want to manufacture these objects and making because ways of making that

23:41

allow us to make the prototypes and I guess I’m using the word making to refer

23:46

to short-run Productions or individual prototypes as opposed to manufacturing

23:52

which is scaling at cost um because what I call making actually is

24:00

an extremely technologically Rich history so weaving knitting those are

24:07

very complex technologies that have been around for hundreds even thousands of years that actually contribute a lot to

24:15

the Integrity of the objects that we make so by using and respecting these

24:21

histories of making but adding new kinds of fibers and Coatings and processes we

24:29

can actually create these objects that have additional functionalities so not

24:35

only clothing our body you know these these on Signal shirts

24:40

also have anti-microbial treatments so they don’t smell too bad if you sweaten

24:46

them a lot they also are these circular knits that help you with your posture so

24:51

they have a lot of traditional textile functionality as well as some of this digital textile

24:58

functionality insofar as they give you a very accurate

25:03

signal of your heart activity not just your heart rate but your full heart signal as well as your breathing and

25:11

your movement Etc that will allow you to reach develop new insights into your

25:18

into your body what’s happening the current applications deal with sports but there is huge potential both on the

25:25

utopic and dystopic end of things for crowdsourcing this information to develop deeper insights for either

25:34

good or nefarious purposes

25:43

and then working with students working with

25:49

designers in my many collaborations my main pet peeve is as soon as we

25:55

engage with these new materials with this materiality that allows us to

26:02

develop um electronic interactive

26:09

mediated kinds of garments I find that our minds slip into a

26:16

product kind of mindset so even beautiful are the facts that are

26:24

created smell like products they don’t smell like craft anymore what do I mean

26:30

by that is the concepts become simpler so working with this new materiality

26:35

these smart textiles these interactive textiles suddenly it’s not just about

26:40

the pleasurable bizarre experience and this is work from my research lab excess Labs where we

26:48

actually try to still engage with these very experimental these are energy generating garments that are by their

26:55

very nature uncomfortable this one is called itchy and it’s very itchy and as you move and you scratch yourself you

27:01

actually generate energy right and and the energy then Powers these lights around your neck which references kind

27:08

of like safety beacons and a state of emergency and actually highlights the

27:14

discomfort of the Garment you know so I try to actually while developing these

27:19

new materials and while developing the methods for these future textiles to

27:25

still engage with the playful perhaps pleasurable perhaps

27:32

well performative of course but also almost you know well the complexity of

27:40

what object making has been historically right and my huge pet peeve is that

27:45

working with these electronic materials switches designers and maybe a lot of

27:52

artists as well I was just reading critiques of the Arts Electronica festival with but I won’t get distracted by that

27:59

but switches the minds of designers and Crafts People to a product like way of

28:07

thinking meaning this has to have a certain use it has to solve a certain problem and it has to be good right it

28:16

has to be something that not necessarily can sell but that has a purpose that can

28:22

be defined in one sentence so that’s my pet peeve about these new materials

28:28

um I’ll just finish I’ll skip through a couple of those slides and just finish about with talking about

28:34

my current deep interest in these new materials and my relationship with these

28:40

new materials because um I think it’s very important to

28:45

respect the history of both making and Manufacturing and just build on top of

28:50

that and this is where the huge potential of making uh these augmented

28:56

artifacts and experiences will come to fruition if we can actually use existing

29:01

factories existing looms Etc but adapt

29:06

them to integrate these conductive fibers or the other fibers I’m

29:12

developing in collaboration with scientist fibers that will replace capacitors batteries Etc while still

29:19

being used in traditional making and Manufacturing processes on top of that

29:26

there is so much potential to then start integrating new ways of making so I’ve

29:34

shown you here A whole list of additive manufacturing and additive or

29:41

prototyping I guess techniques available right now and finally there is such exciting

29:48

potential to the future of materials and how we’re going to work with these materials not just from the world of

29:55

electronics but of course from Material science and chemistry

30:01

so I look forward to the discussion later about how we can really leverage

30:08

the potential of this new materiality and a lot of it in my opinion has to

30:15

come down to training better designers who understand the complexities of these

30:20

materials without working on a solely superficial Gadget like if I can say

30:27

that level okay I’m just going to jump through all of these [Laughter]

30:40

can people hear me without a mic yeah okay use it use it okay I’ll use it

30:49

um my name is garnet Hertz

30:56

it’s the green thing green thing okay okay so I instead of talking about my

31:04

own work I wanted to talk about my relationship with my 3D printer and it’s

31:10

not it’s not explicitly sexual or anything

31:15

um but I wanted to bring up some ideas in regards to the adoption of new

31:21

technology and sort of um uh Trends and tropes of of new technologies

31:29

that I see happening um with maker Technologies

31:35

so I

31:41

think of you know in or I’m telling I’ll tell this as a story okay so

31:48

um in itially when working with an old

31:54

technology let’s say this is clay or uh ceramic or

32:00

metal or whatever foam core um

32:05

you would build it with your hands and and it’s this is sort of a

32:11

representation of the old way of doing something and then a new thing comes along Okay so

32:18

it has a lot of promise okay so um this I think of as the you know I

32:27

need you so bad phase like I love you I uh take my money phase of like

32:34

Kickstarter where it’s like you want to throw your money at um at a new thing

32:40

that comes along that is um has a lot of promise it has the promise

32:46

that it will free you from all of your constraints and it will replace

32:51

everything um it’s like when peanut butter came out it was uh projected that this was going

32:58

to obliterate uh margarine and and butter you know or the the elevator was

33:05

going to completely replace stairs now of course some of this is true but it tends to be overstated uh during

33:13

the beginning especially if it’s in a Kickstarter campaign okay um

33:19

but after and this isn’t two weeks later I thought about this after because

33:24

um it takes more than two weeks to get a Kickstarter uh product it takes more like a year and a half but that’s

33:29

another story so two weeks after you get this thing the material reality of this this new

33:35

digital technology sets in um how to calibrate it the inconsistencies the limitations

33:42

and this is where you are are working with this new system

33:47

and this could be a CNC machine this could be lots of different things but 3D

33:53

printing is sort of the poster child of a lot of um what we’re talking about today

33:59

this is where you’re you’re still in love with the technology and you’re working with it although you’re

34:04

discovering that maybe that Kickstarter campaign had uh was overstating the

34:11

technology somewhat so after about a month it’s sort of like well I guess this only prints in like

34:19

ugly colored plastic uh and um my printer keeps jamming

34:26

um and okay after I’ve printed a bunch of Yoda heads and uh keychain whatever

34:33

things um 3D modeling is actually quite hard right

34:38

um there the there’s an aspect of the new technology that has a lot of promise but there’s a lot of fine print

34:45

um uh and uh you know you’re just you have problems you’re posting on

34:51

discussion groups about how to fix it um you realize that Open Source Hardware

34:57

is actually uh a lot of times just a kind of An Unfinished piece of Hardware

35:03

uh that doesn’t really work very well doesn’t have good documentation not all the time but sometimes

35:10

and then six months later you are this this is in my case maybe some people go

35:15

faster or slower through this process so it’s sort of coming to an understanding

35:21

uh that uh that you’re in a becoming to a settled relationship with this thing

35:27

where it’s like okay yes this this technology is is great it it has a it

35:33

has a really useful place in a lot of what I’m gonna do but I’m not going to immediately drop all of my uh tools for

35:42

making models out of foam core uh I’m not going to um stop welding or uh using a drill

35:51

press you know um this is this is something that’s really useful so you sort of get into

35:56

this domestic relationship with this with this device any print you know the

36:01

odd Pikachu head or whatever off of it for your kids or whatever

36:06

um and then for me at least I with new

36:11

technologies I mean I tend to be quite nostalgic in my work um I think after working with this thing

36:20

for a while you sort of think like oh wow like I sort of missed that getting

36:25

my hands dirty in uh plasticine or um I

36:30

I really miss grinding metal you know or or something and so I think a lot of people go

36:38

through a cycle where this this Nostalgia comes up and this is really really powerful stuff you know you see

36:44

vinyl um re-emerging kind of as the zombie media form from the past or mixtapes or

36:53

uh Pokemon or I mean Nostalgia is is really really powerful and it and and

36:59

and there’s um and there’s a lot embedded it’s not just Nostalgia it has to do with history

37:06

it has to do with culture has to do with the uh old frying pan that you inherited from your grandmother you know there’s a

37:13

lot of things that are wrapped up in that that that new technology can only partially intervene in

37:19

um so then and I think this is where this is where things are interesting you know after you’ve worked at this new

37:26

technology blending in the new technology with the older stuff that

37:31

that that’s uh supposed to be like a that blob of that old thing getting fed

37:37

into this printer um it’s sort of moving into an open relationship phase with this technology

37:43

and not being completely the equivalent of texting it every five minutes you’re sort of in an open

37:49

relationship with it and you uh combine the new thing with the old thing and this is this is what’s really

37:55

interesting you know people extruding uh you know coffee or tea or ceramic

38:02

um this is where there’s a lot of promise and a lot of interesting stuff glass mixing the old with the new

38:09

um and eventually I think I mean of course

38:15

digital Technologies change everything right we all are staring at our phones

38:21

at the uh bus stop we’re all uh texting each other it it fundamentally

38:29

overhauls uh a lot of stuff but at a certain point we

38:35

um I at least think of these things as tools

38:41

of course some tools are more useful than others you’re obviously going to I would get more I get more excited over a

38:48

3D printer than I do an orbital sander right but um

38:54

you can come to a conceptualization and use of these things as multiple things

39:00

in your uh quiver of building stuff

39:06

um and so what what I think is important and and I’ve seen this in lots of presentations it’s not like this is like

39:13

a trade show where everybody’s trying to sell stuff um or launch a Kickstarter campaign but

39:20

um the the idea of uh Liberation and

39:25

supersession that that I I think is useful to uh take with a

39:31

grain of salt so that um and and this is something that’s as old

39:38

as as uh communication technology has a

39:43

couple hundred years since the telephone television radio uh internet 3D printing

39:52

um of course these things drastically overhaul culture but they they usually

39:58

do not completely supersede us from uh uh our material culture and they they

40:06

don’t completely liberate us they’re they’re just a part of the sort of

40:11

plethora of what we’re working with and how we build things

40:18

and that’s it thanks [Applause]

40:27

well those were three fascinating talks and I have to say Garnet you I mean Dell

40:33

you really um hit some of the issues that I’ve been

40:38

thinking about and that we’ve all been thinking about and it’s the idea of how we fetishize the process of making and

40:47

these digital tools what I think is quite fascinating from your discussion is the fact that

40:55

you still need skill even if you’re handling these digital Technologies and

41:01

of course we know that skill is very much locked into the idea of craftsmanship because we are here today

41:07

to really talk about the sort of marriage between craft and and and

41:13

technology and design and that issue which Sandra raised that Goethe had

41:18

pointed out the problem you know so many years ago that if if objects are

41:24

mechanically produced or reproduced do they lose their inspiration their Aura

41:30

their ability to transform us and I think you know we all know now I would I

41:38

could ask this question but I think we all know the answer that that craft is

41:43

no longer locked into the handmade that’s just a redundant question we know

41:48

that from students today the fact that we all need our Technologies but what

41:54

are so so so so so it is liberating to have these Technologies it is also a

42:01

problem so can we talk a little bit more in detail about some of the drawbacks of

42:08

digital technology now you I’ll ask you first Joey because I I thought it was

42:13

quite interesting unless I misunderstood you your pet peeve was that designers or

42:19

craftmakers were still thinking about functionality and I thought well why why is that so bad like rather than just

42:25

looking at as pure sort of indulgence and experimenting with materials why is

42:30

that a drawback they’re thinking of functionality from the mindset of a venture capital a kind of sales pitch

42:38

okay yeah so like how can I develop something that solves a problem that can

42:46

get funded so they’re not necessarily thinking about funding but that is the

42:51

world that they’ve experienced digital in my in my uh domain right which is

42:59

wearables that’s how they’ve experienced wearables and it’s very difficult for

43:05

them to then imagine a wearable that isn’t a sales pitch if I can put it in

43:10

those terms what’s you know um what’s really

43:15

interesting about electronic textiles is that they merge functionality so you still

43:24

have the textile functionality it can keep you warm it can change the way your body moves it can drape on your body in

43:33

a different way with electronic interactive functionality sensors or shape change or

43:41

color change or lights communication all kinds of things

43:46

the biggest potential for the future of these materials is once you merge these

43:51

two different functionalities is that actually form becomes function

43:58

what I mean by that is if you have a textile that’s woven with conductive threads if you cut it here the

44:05

resistance will be different than if you cut it here so you can actually by changing the shape of the Garment of the

44:12

textile you’re actually changing the resistance which then changes the electronic circuit which changes the

44:17

interaction and there’s so much subtlety that can be achieved by actually designing with these materials as

44:24

opposed to what we’re seeing coming out of research Labs at Google for instance

44:29

with their project Jacquard where the collaboration with Levi’s they have pants and they’re just weaving a three

44:36

by three Matrix so you can control your I think it’s your speakers or something

44:42

right you can actually change the sound level on your speakers on your headphones or something like that

44:48

so imagine you know having that same textile but actually using it to perhaps

44:56

um I mean this is cheesy too but perhaps you know look at pictures of your baby I

45:02

have a newborn baby so that’s what I do all day long

45:08

um you know but something that perhaps is more personal or less about this

45:15

functionality that comes with consumer electronics

45:20

Greg do you want to speak a little bit about what I some of the drawbacks that you’ve encountered either through

45:25

teaching or curating or making sure I guess um to me I guess and this came up in

45:32

some of the other talks too is is that seduction it’s and that’s yeah that’s

45:39

one of the drawbacks I think is that initial the initial stage of yeah this can this uh this Sleek new material or

45:48

smart textile or um or technology and that people only

45:55

sort of don’t don’t work beyond that that it’s it’s just this surface interaction and the results that come

46:02

out of that are very yeah yeah just limited well they’re lost in the process

46:08

right and the difficulty of achieving what they wanted their what they want to

46:13

make yeah and it’s to me it’s more

46:19

um it’s the exciting stuff comes later on once people have sort of gone through it maybe later on in the relationship as

46:27

Garnett was saying um where they’re understanding it they’re interacting with it and then

46:34

they start to notice the other possibilities that come out to me those are the really exciting things that

46:40

those potential things that that can come up

46:48

um I I think that

46:53

um I’m assuming that you were going to ask me to speak next um

46:59

it’s interesting because I I used to teach in a computer science department and

47:06

um and it’s different now teaching at an art school but teaching at a computer science department to what I consider to

47:12

be average Californian kids I would just give them

47:18

a hunk of Plato uh and give them a prompt to think

47:24

through an idea and make something with their hands and it was like

47:30

they’re like oh my God there’s this thing I mean they

47:36

found it very engaging like um it’s an interesting exercise I don’t

47:41

know if if I’m assuming there’s some teachers here but um but just giving

47:46

people a hunk of Plato sometimes was just like it it it people were very

47:51

engaged with this stuff and and and and uh they’re sort of returned to this uh

47:57

uh craft be partially because of such a saturation of sort of screen time that

48:05

that just a hunk of Plato is very kind of Novel kind of interface for for a lot

48:10

of people it’s it’s different teaching at an art school because people are kind of schooled and you know polishing stuff

48:17

and sculpting stuff they have a different relationship but um

48:22

limitations are uh I think just getting kind of

48:30

after you’ve made your little LED blank after you’ve printed up your uh thing

48:37

that you’ve downloaded on your 3D printer it it then poses a much harder

48:42

question of uh why you’re making it and uh you can have the best technology in the

48:48

world uh fabrication technology and you can still put through pretty bad ideas

48:54

the the technology will give you a lot of opportunity to try out new stuff but

48:59

um I’ve seen terrible terrible things at the facility at the University that I

49:05

was working at they had this multi-million dollar metal sintering

49:11

uh machine like insane machine and they were like printing like

49:19

uh rims for cars or just knickknacks of Just Junk you know like or doing a 3D

49:27

print of like somebody’s modified like dash for their car that was it was not really I mean it could be kind of

49:35

interesting but but it really really wasn’t if you saw it so having the new

49:40

technology is only kind of part of the step and can open a lot of doors but it’s not um

49:46

it doesn’t solve the problem of what uh what you’re building and why why are you doing it

49:51

I’m going to open up the audience but I do have one more question and it’s really about access and Technology

49:58

because all of you are affiliated with with institutions uh at the Gardner Museum when we were working with Claire

50:05

Toomey and we wanted to scan an object and then reproduce it digitally we had

50:12

to go out of house and what I found it was very interesting because we went to East Toronto and where they had the big

50:20

huge stereo lithography machine but they didn’t have the scanner to do the sort

50:26

of reverse engineering if you will so they brought in a subcontractor who

50:31

literally had his little scanning machine it was like the size of a portable old-fashioned you know uh radio

50:37

uh sorry not radio but um a stereo turntable and he did it there and so it still had to me a real

50:45

sort of Garage Band uh DIY kind of atmosphere to to it so I’m just

50:53

wondering where will we go where will the Technologies go for the general

50:58

public well we at one point be able to access these Technologies really uh uh

51:05

even more readily than we can now anyone feels free to jump in

51:13

I can start off maybe um in at I teach at ocad University and

51:18

that’s always a question um it’s okay it’s sort of asserting itself as a university and with that

51:24

there I think they’ve they’ve sort of pushed away their

51:30

um their tie to the traditional Shops and and and sort of elevated design to

51:35

this um yeah to this academic Pursuit and

51:42

it’s it gets lost a little bit because there there’s less time for people to

51:47

interact directly with the the technology to um sort of get that

51:52

Hands-On um and um to me that’s that’s where it happens

51:58

that’s where the connections are made um sort of uh removed from that it’s

52:06

um that’s where you’re sort of just working on the surface

52:12

um at the same time there’s um I think it’s easy and and this is

52:18

what I’m trying to get my students to do is not to worry about what’s sort of right in front of them what technology

52:24

they can they can sit there and work with but to realize that this technology is at their fingertips outside of the

52:31

University outside and all they have to do is sort of make those connections to speak to the people running them and

52:38

it’s easy enough for them to kind of get in see some results and understand exactly what that material and that

52:45

machine can do so they don’t have to own the machine they don’t have to it doesn’t have to be in their space

52:51

necessarily but as long as they’re as long as that approach of of sort of

52:56

learning it understanding it and then responding is is taken up then that’s

53:02

where I think they can go deeper with it what about uh in Vancouver Del what’s up

53:09

is it accessible outside of Emily Carr or what’s happening there in terms of these Digital Labs

53:17

um in terms of the accessibility I mean universities are I mean it’s quite accessible inside

53:24

of the university for students but um and there definitely is a move to to

53:31

sort of hacker space everything which is interesting and and a lot of good has

53:38

come out of it but I mean I see the most interesting stuff happening in libraries

53:43

in different museums and different spaces that are kind of set up to service the public already

53:51

within within universities you have all sorts of kind of bureaucratic hierarchies and minor turf wars and uh

54:01

shop texts versus professors or whatever you know um it’s sometimes complicated you know

54:08

and um you end up having small little uh

54:13

miniature Ivory Towers of of labs you

54:19

know um but it it really depends on the people who who are working there

54:27

um I mean I found it I found actually I’m an MLA car to be quite open but I think I think the the fascinating kind

54:35

of area is and there’s an interesting example of art engine uh discussing with

54:42

uh art engine about the hacker space in uh you know in Ottawa here funded by the

54:51

U.S embassy which is a whole other can of worms but

54:57

um uh you know libraries are really fascinating places but um

55:03

yeah so if I can just answer or jump in for this as well just for a second

55:10

um you know our students or our young people might have lost some of their skills and making things with their

55:17

hands but they’ve developed other skills with their hands for Googling things and you know surfing the web and I even find

55:25

that many of my students no longer come to my class you know to learn some of

55:31

the technical things because they’ve already learned it on their own by watching YouTube videos whatever

55:39

working on their own um some of them come to my classes to

55:44

learn the technical things some of them already bring the knowledge with them um and once they do develop that

55:52

knowledge a lot of them choose not to use the facilities at the University for some of the reasons that you’ve

55:57

mentioned but also for cost reasons there’s actually depending on the machine depending on

56:03

the access policy Etc it actually might be easier for them to go outside to the maker spaces and or libraries Etc

56:13

um so I think a question of access to that

56:18

demographic I would say would perhaps no longer be an issue I don’t know if

56:23

anybody disagrees with that it’s not my area of expertise

56:38

you know what you learn about technique and being bound up in the material that

56:45

you’re using have you had experiences where then say using these new materials

56:51

that you’re talking about in new ways has that been transformed the experience of using what older materials or ideas

56:59

of traditional materials not not necessarily just because of the technology that you can sort of enact

57:04

with it and you know Ram it through a 3D printer if it’s tea but but that’s something about working with new

57:11

materials in their in their experiences of transforming something that you’re doing sort of backwards

57:18

um I think General I mean just speaking more generally I mean the short answer is yes for my own work but more

57:25

generally I think it’s really really interesting and often uh quite unnoticed

57:32

how when new stuff comes out the old sort of paradigms of stuff go through a

57:38

radical kind of transformation trying to keep up and do a lot of evolution after

57:43

their sort of obsolescence is is announced whether it’s

57:48

um you know the music industry whether it’s um uh

57:54

uh video games you know when when uh video games arcade digital video games

58:00

came out pinball machines went through this crazy transformation um

58:06

sort of the the new all you know as soon as the death bell rings for something

58:11

old then then the old thing wakes up and just panics and uh re-shifts and

58:18

reconfigures itself and it’s and it’s really kind of an interesting phenomenon in general so I I think that’s

58:25

definitely happening with um uh

58:30

with with in a lot of different a lot of different areas and a lot of different Industries with digital Technologies is

58:37

that that the old stuff is uh it’s responding you know in an

58:44

interesting and I I think it’s a productive way how is it responding because visually as

58:49

a curator what I’m seeing is a facelift I’m seeing the old being

58:55

repackaged into the new whether it’s more complex a form whether there’s more

59:01

voids in it but can we talk about that a little bit deeper like is it transforming bold ways or practices it’s

59:08

a profound question and I don’t know that how what is the answer to that or

59:14

can we I think part of it part of it is um that it goes completely in the other direction you know as you get more

59:21

refined um uh more machine made let’s say like for

59:30

example the um uh uh Walmart type of products Mass

59:37

consumer products I think you know help launch DIY kind of movements you know as

59:46

a response where you have definitely like a knee-jerk reaction against you

59:52

know you have such a massive Trend that you you know have people going directly

59:57

in the opposite direction or with music with digital downloads

1:00:02

spurring on you know cassette mixtapes you know that you have this

1:00:10

the more refinement and more machine made you have sort of this uh

1:00:15

contrasting kind of flow that’s always kind of pushing

1:00:21

against stuff so I really see the Resurgence of craft being being you know tied into the

1:00:29

internet you know digitization virtual reality and or

1:00:34

whatever information Super Highway people just sort of going like well yeah

1:00:40

I mean I like knitting and that’s not going away and and rediscovering that

1:00:47

you know are there any questions from the audience

1:00:54

for Josie thank you very much it was it’s very

1:01:00

very interesting there’s just one thing that I would like to maybe just drag my question at Garnet to start with

1:01:06

um you’ve talked in a very concise and clear way but like a relationship the evolution of a relationship between the

1:01:13

maker and let’s say the new technology and where does

1:01:19

the rapid pace of things insert itself here because you’ve all alluded to the

1:01:24

fact that when somebody gets seduced initially by new technology they try their hand at things that are fairly you

1:01:30

know that come easily to everybody and then after that there’s a need for a period of of pushing the boundaries and

1:01:37

exploring further I know many makers who are in that phase of um of honeymoon with new technology

1:01:44

but as soon as they experience this honeymoon phase and they would they would be then moving on to the point of

1:01:51

exploring and pushing boundaries technology has changed already and then they turn to be in a phase of honeymoon

1:01:58

with the next technology and so uh how what do you see the impact of this being

1:02:03

on the fact that do makers already have will have the time to actually be

1:02:09

afforded that period of of thinking and pushing the boundaries before two or three iterations of the new technology

1:02:15

is already there and make obsolete with Dave you know what I’m saying it’s it’s moving so fast

1:02:21

yeah I mean there’s so it’s definitely sort of like a seduction you know of of new stuff

1:02:28

always churning and it’s you know good for the economy or bad uh for the world

1:02:35

depending on how you look at it um and yeah some people never get just

1:02:42

always are hopping on the New Media kind of

1:02:48

it doesn’t matter what the new thing is it’s just always sort of like this addiction to your next kind of thing on

1:02:55

the cover of wired or or or whatever um

1:03:01

some people yeah of course some people never never go beyond that

1:03:07

um and some of the some of the work that people do with 3D printers is just like

1:03:14

very ordinary just simple stuff and I guess I

1:03:21

guess that’s okay I mean maybe not no I don’t think everybody needs to be making you know groundbreaking kind of stuff

1:03:29

um but I don’t know I I mean in terms of if we

1:03:35

bring this back to like Maker Faire and like the maker kind of movement I do

1:03:40

kind of see some more reflection um coming into that scene where you know

1:03:48

after criticism over something like military funding or criticism over the organizations

1:03:56

having sort of questionable political kind of agendas I see that that

1:04:03

Community is responding and and talking about issues of accessibility and gender

1:04:09

politics um I mean not really too much talking

1:04:16

about it but kind of acknowledging it and starting to ask stuff like that so I

1:04:21

I uh I think that that scene is kind of starting to ask those questions

1:04:28

I think but not everybody next question could we all agree on what

1:04:37

um Greg just said at the beginning that what we whatever thing is the thing we we are talking about if it is a thing is

1:04:44

not it is not a tool but Paul probably a desire or an

1:04:53

obsession

1:05:00

um I mean I threw that out because I think it um the the idea of just a tool it may be

1:05:05

sort of down down plays um the potential because really

1:05:12

um as you start to sort of immerse yourself in some of these Technologies

1:05:18

you start to see things in a different way um I do yeah I don’t I don’t know

1:05:26

um I don’t yeah I don’t know if I would

1:05:32

um sorry I’m getting choked up here um by saying that the idea that it’s it’s

1:05:40

more than just a tool it’s it’s just this the the uh this scale of it or the

1:05:46

uh the the potential that there’s suddenly this it’s more than just a

1:05:52

material relationship that we have with these objects now there’s um there’s this uh virtual way that we

1:06:00

can interact with them and to me I think there’s a lot of space in between that

1:06:06

that um the the digital and the material that that we’re just beginning to explore and

1:06:13

those are the those are the exciting and and some of the ones that I was trying to show today is where people are are

1:06:19

picking up um sort of within that space between the digital

1:06:25

and and the material um so yeah the just a tool at at times

1:06:31

yes it’s uh it’s a tool but it’s a very powerful tool and I think it the

1:06:38

implications are much bigger than maybe some other tools that have uh proceeded

1:06:45

it [Music]

1:06:52

sorry for the awkward time to take me to run [Music]

1:06:58

a wonderful panel it just occurred to me as we’re discussing that so far we’re

1:07:03

all professors and uh so I just I don’t know how it sort of fits into everyone’s argument but for a year I directed a lab

1:07:11

at silk du Soleil because they wanted to bring in um Innovation and again new fabrication

1:07:17

models and they have things like a body scanner and they use a a scanner to scan

1:07:23

all their performers across the world so that they can make customized so they make customized suits for everyone but

1:07:30

it was a tremendous challenge because within the hierarchy of this creative industry you have people who have ideas

1:07:36

and all of a sudden they have to talk to an engineer who’s maybe like a lighting

1:07:41

engineer or you know or or like a 3D engineer and they have to be sort of

1:07:47

humbled by their lack of knowledge in that field and so it was a terrible Misfit from um you know also like kind

1:07:54

of like um it’s not it’s a difficult place to r d right right now you know the profit

1:07:59

margins so I guess my question is is there a way and I think um on our previous panel we talked a

1:08:06

little bit about opening up these Labs but I think this transferring of knowledge to industries that really need

1:08:12

to rethink their approach because we have the high-tech Industries like gaming and you know robotics but most of

1:08:19

the other Industries actually don’t know how to retool or to reintegrate these

1:08:25

creative ways including fashion

1:08:30

foreign yes I mean I can talk specifically about

1:08:36

my experience developing the Ralph Lauren product you know because um

1:08:41

we’ve all seen tons of prototypes for biometric shirts and a lot of even big

1:08:47

brands have had or have announced products that were

1:08:53

maybe available online but then not really most of the products that have been

1:08:59

announced have not actually been manufactured at scale it’s

1:09:04

an extremely difficult problem to make an electronic garment in a manufacturing

1:09:10

context I mean there’s a very good reason we don’t have sensors and all of

1:09:15

our garments yet it’s a very very hard manufacturing problem so in our case you know the only reason

1:09:22

it was possible is that we had three players involved on Signal

1:09:29

who’s very survival hinged on the success of this product then Ralph

1:09:35

Lauren who their survival did not hinge on this

1:09:40

product but they were very much invested in developing this and they had the

1:09:47

capital not just financially but also in terms of their influence within the

1:09:54

industry to make sure that our third partner the manufacturer would not give up

1:09:59

uh all of us at different points wanted to give up it was it no it took three years instead of three months

1:10:07

um and it’s extremely extremely hard you know so I had that slide where I talked about additive manufacturing and

1:10:15

Manufacturing plus plus Etc and it sounds so seductive but it’s much more

1:10:21

about just putting a new machine in a factory or putting a new machine in a maker space right

1:10:28

um there is um and that’s why you know it’s not just a tool so specifically for the Ralph

1:10:37

Lauren biometric shirt you didn’t only have to kind of train the people on the

1:10:43

floor on like look you can’t Stitch through this because it’ll be a short circuit it was actually a whole

1:10:48

fundamental organizational shift within the whole uh Factory right so they had

1:10:55

to change the way they do costing they had to change their management approach we had to change the way that they do

1:11:02

sourcing um and I’m happy to talk about it I

1:11:07

can’t talk about this for hours so I’m happy to talk about this over lunch with anybody who’s interested but it was such

1:11:13

a deep organizational shift within that factory you know that they say in French

1:11:22

it’s not easy it’s not simple um and also I think there’s this perception

1:11:28

with digital technologies that it’s easy and you should be able to achieve Mastery quickly right and ideas don’t

1:11:34

catch up to how easy it is to make the first kinds of things and you know I actually have a question that somehow

1:11:41

relates to this I wanted to pose to the panel or even to the audience because I’m not sure what the answer is is there

1:11:47

a qualitative difference between somebody who like let’s say goes to their Community Arts Center and takes a

1:11:53

drawing class and makes a couple of crappy drawings and the next session takes a painting class and makes a

1:11:58

couple of crappy paintings and they’re like okay that’s not for me and that makes a glass blow that takes a glass blowing class and then takes a Ceramics

1:12:05

class right and compare is that a process that’s qualitatively different

1:12:10

from you know using one 3D printer than maybe using an Arduino then being like

1:12:16

okay well I made an LED blink then using some other digital tool or is it just part of the same kind of exploration and

1:12:22

then some people really get passionate about like oh my God Ceramics is it for me and I’m gonna make a hundred crappy

1:12:29

Ceramics and then I’ll get good right and I’ll make a hundred crappy 3D prints

1:12:35

and then I’ll finally be amazing right is there a difference I don’t think so

1:12:40

but maybe there is I I could offer just in relation to what

1:12:46

you had just said the idea of not just a tool and not just a material that every tool and everything that you wield and

1:12:54

it’s like if you could imagine it there’s an invisible web that is just spreading out from each of those objects

1:13:00

that affects massive amounts of things so there is a there is a quantifiable uh

1:13:05

difference between when you handle an Arduino when you handle a 3D printer and all of the materials that go into it and

1:13:13

all of the sort of social economic and cultural structures that those exist in so while there might not be a radical

1:13:19

difference for the person involved um how we make those things external and

1:13:25

evident is is definitely different and possible right now I think as you’ve

1:13:31

been alluding to in in some ways in the in the commercial aspects we want to make those things invisible in the

1:13:37

technological we don’t want to think about them um sorry I don’t mean to monopolize but they give me a mic

1:13:44

um so so how much time do we have we’re getting close to uh lunch people are probably getting hungry so we can maybe

1:13:51

um start to wrap up I uh so I have to say I’m still not convinced that I still think it’s a tool

1:13:57

but what a tool what an exciting tool because I think we could talk about the

1:14:02

impact of you know the steam engine in the 19th century or or so forth it changes you know of course it changes

1:14:08

Factory plants of course it changes access to production we are just living in this digital Revolution we’re often

1:14:16

caught up in the process of making and what it can give us and that’s what’s so exciting about it I think that Greg you

1:14:23

really touched on something that I thought was interesting and that is the in between space and that I think is a

1:14:30

whole new world particularly for craftmakers is to work in that virtual

1:14:35

world and what does that mean and and that I hope we can maybe explore that a little bit uh more in the afternoon now

1:14:42

I did think it was very interesting Joey that you always said that whatever someone was doing it was crappy DIY do

1:14:47

it crappy crappy but that did make me think about anything and even when Dell was talking about you know the challenge

1:14:53

changes of using these 3D printers is the 10 000 hours that we

1:15:00

need to to quote Malcolm Gladwell and that’s what we do need to be any to be a

1:15:06

master at what we do and we can’t forget that and we can’t sort of only talk about it in this kind of vacuum but in

1:15:12

that larger context but thank you for this wonderful discussion and great audience

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