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so i want to welcome you all here today joining us from wherever you are

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my name is nicole neufeld and i’m the community engagement coordinator here at the art gallery of

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guelph and i’m thrilled that you’re all joining us this evening for a conversation

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between artists meg ross and jose andres mora this conversation has been organized in

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concert with meg ross’s exhibition currently on view at the art gallery of guelph nearest neighbor which marks the

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culmination of two years in the studio working towards a master of fine arts

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in studio arts at the university of guelph so to begin uh i’d like to offer a land

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acknowledgement on behalf of the art gallery of guelph which is hosting this uh this discussion tonight

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what we now call guelph ontario is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history and home to

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many first nations inuit and metis people today as we gather this evening we would like

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to acknowledge that the art gallery of guelph resides on the ancestral lands of the atawandrum people and more recently

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the treaty lands and territory of the mississaugas of the credit we recognize the significance of the

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dish with one spoon covenant to this land and offer our respect for anishinaabe

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and metis neighbors as we continue to to strive to strengthen our relationships with them

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and we express our deep gratitude and recognize our responsibility for the stewardship of this land on which we

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live work and create and so as we’re gathered here today

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connected uh virtually yet physically dispersed it’s it’s also a good moment

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to um reflect and contemplate on the significance of place

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and in doing so recognize how the different traditional lands

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we reside in and move through and form our lives for myself as a settler working

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at a cultural institution i recognize that this is a crucial statement and a

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moment for pause and contemplation for us all to

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think about um how especially organizations like ours

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can remind us to be aware of the ongoing effects of colonialism that underpin our

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institutional histories so not only have cultural institutions

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like ours employed deeply colonial methods of representation but because of our

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authority that has been granted to us um in the way that we shape histories these narratives have been accepted as

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truth informing policies and practices that have very real everyday implications

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so again it’s it’s a good reminder and moment of pause uh to think about the

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histories of of this land and the people who who live here

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so for a few housekeeping notes um i just want to let you know that this the

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speakers this evening are really excited to hear from you uh and would love to hear your perspective so i do

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encourage you to drop any questions or comments in the chat and there will be there will be time for us to um interact

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with those along the way uh and last but not least i’d like to

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share some bios uh for our two speakers this evening uh meg ross’s practice blends

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installation photography photography sculpture and writing focusing on the ambiguity of language

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through its poetic and physical qualities ross redefines adapts and translates

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roles of communication ross graduated from the nova scotia

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college of art and design university in 2015 with a bfa in intermedia

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and she exhibited a solo installation for louis blanche in

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2018 and has been featured in multiple group exhibitions at venues including

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gallery 44 the kyber center for the arts eye level gallery robert cannonage gallery boarding house

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gallery and the cook house gallery in london england meg ross is now officially an mfa

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graduate from the studio studio arts program at the university of guelph

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jose andreas mora is a venezuelan-born artist and settler living in toronto

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in his 10-year career maura completed the studio art program at capilano

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university in 2008. he earned a bfa in into interdisciplinary arts from the nova

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scotia college of art and design in 2012 and finished the mfa in studio arts at

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the university of guelph as well currently maura is the gallery manager

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at the media arts artist run center trinity square video and sits on the board of directors of the media arts

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online platform uh vaca

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maura has exhibited projects across canada in venues like art metropol birch

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contemporary dalhousie art gallery louis blanche strutz gallery among many others

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most recently maura exhibited a solo show uh called the morning in reverse in

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art space in um peterborough and produced the telephone based project landline gallery for

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trinity square video and i’d like to welcome both uh meg and jose andreas

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uh to to join the conversation

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thank you so much thank you so much okay um

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can everyone hear me okay yeah oh my god you’re all frozen for a

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second there okay oh no okay okay yeah i can hear you [Laughter]

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right at the beginning wonderful uh good afternoon good evening

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everyone uh thank you for joining us i am really honored to be here to have this conversation with my colleague nick

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ross of her work um i’m constantly and i’m going to be

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kind of moderating this talk i guess um a few months ago

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or weeks ago i don’t know meg invited me to participate in this artist’s talk by uh helping her carry

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out this conversation about her exhibition and i was really excited and said yes absolutely

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and then a few layers later i think i was like wait what am i doing and then she says do whatever you want and i was

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like okay great um um and so you know but she also mentioned

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that she wanted me to talk about my work which i thought was really generous and so

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considering that this is an exhibition of her work right um and so we talked a little bit about how we were gonna doing

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this conversation talk around both of our practices and focusing on

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the parts the uh overlap for my studio practices so

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i’m an artist and as an artist i have questions and curiosities around meg’s work and

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a lot of those questions come from the fact that we share a lot of similarities and our interests

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and some of those reasons also sorry some other questions that i have though are

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questions that i have just from the fact that i kind of want to know how she thinks as an artist

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and so for that reason um we thought it would be kind of interesting to conduct our conversation

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and i mean my conversation i mean in this presentation um a little bit

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in the style that i would maybe carry out a studio business with mac so i’m gonna be asking meg a few questions

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with some notifications um but i guess like this is sort of where i

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kind of wanted to feel like a studio visit why people get to peek into

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because through this are my favorite thing wonderful

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amazing so um the only difference here is going to be of course that um

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you all know mike’s work intimately and maybe you know not so familiar with mine so

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um i first gonna begin by inviting meg to do an introduction about her work and

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her exhibition for anyone in the audience that just needs to a refresher over the exhibition and about the

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exhibition and then i’m going to introduce a little bit about my work uh for anyone wondering who is this

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person uh and yeah and then we’ll get some questions started and um

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throughout the conversation i’m going to be showing i’m going to be showing some images of mixed work and also showing some of the images of

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my work and jumping back and forth and so on and so forth and hopefully that makes sense to everyone

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so with all that said i’m going to open up the blog [Music]

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yes i’m going to share my screen now um nicole i am getting a

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notification that i have host disabled participant screen sharing

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i will get that sorted for you right away i had to leave a conversation at one

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point and then come back in so that’s right probably what happened

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i am a co-host now wonderful okay

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okay

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okay well thanks to nicole and everyone at the art gallery um for letting me speak today and thanks to

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everyone for being here and for coming um thank you also to jose andreas for

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participating in this talk and being so extremely generous with your time i’ve

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been a fan of your work for a while now so i’m thrilled to have this conversation with you

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um so preparing for this talk has been a really wonderful opportunity for me to

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delve more deeply into my thesis work that i created for my mfa it kind of felt like

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a compliment like a like a nice little walk in the park through work that i know really

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well but still found some exciting ideas along the way so like we kind of mentioned already my

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goal for this discussion is to talk about for about 10 minutes to

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introduce some aspects of my work and give a little verbal tour of what you would see

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walking into the space so i’m going to zero in on what the work means to me and

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and kind of where and how i situate it in contemporary art

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so my work mostly takes the form of photo based sculptural environments that use a variety of materials but in this

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work presented at the art gallery of guelph i use glass photo papers

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mdf and aluminum how i understand the language of photography is

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far from straightforward and i’m more interested in its relationship between materiality immateriality and

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dematerialization the technique that i used to explore this was embodying the logic of

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disillusion through the process of searching through my photographic archive and pinpointing moments of error

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such as scratch emulsions light leaks and chemistry failures in my digitalized film negatives

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i situated the i like the general idea of this work in relation to the concept

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of affect defined by gregory segworth and melissa gregg as quote the intimate

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and impersonal that accumulates across both relatedness and interruptions in

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relatedness a relationship with images is often filtered from filtered from fingers to

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screens and it’s through that tension that i’m really interested in bringing photography back to the material

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an image is a copy a replicated visual circulating and being dispersed through

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a variety of hosts the circulatory logic of the image saturated world we live in

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today to be exact it’s 54 400 photographs are produced every

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single second makes me conclude that takes that taking a photograph today is almost a

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subconscious act it’s like a romantic attachment to fulfill an impulse

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capturing moments that theoretically last forever by exploring conversations about where

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photography is now in the present day and how a contemporary approach to

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expand the uses of the image can lead us to a hybrid language that blends photography with writing sculpture and

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installation so when visitors enter the gallery they will first see a table with photo books

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sitting on top these books are made from photographs that are dry mounted onto mdf wooden

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blocks the table as well as the photo books function like an index of the larger

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installation each book i created was a representation of the specific books

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that i read from my research for my thesis exhibition and i welcome the viewers to interact

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with the books on the table and invite a leg time where intervals of contemplation and reflection

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can be present and this notion of contemplation and reflection kind of spills into the

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larger space of the gallery where viewers are confronted with large-scale abstract photographs that are mounted to

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supreme flatness which not only feel atmospheric and calming but also kind of

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deceptive since the work doesn’t read as photographs from the start the images have no edges no lines no

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shapes and therefore it kind of invites multiple different interpretations when confronted with the

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atmospheric gradients one person situated the images as fields

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fields of color fields of contemplation [Music] others situated the work as paintings so

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one could maybe think of it as you know or situated in the interrelationship to digital and

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material culture of photographs or someone could like depict the work and

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akin to accidental photographs taken by a mobile phone with her blown out pixels

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from the overabundance of light from a flash and i think this resistance of

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classification is really um of interest of mine it’s one of the reasons why

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situating it in affect made sense since affect is extremely random and fleeting

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affect in this environment allows us to consider the flexibility and fluidity of

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photography and strip it down just to focus on the light that is bathed in the space a

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light and energy that feels alien and strange at the same time

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relaxing and calming something like witnessing a sunset or a sunrise

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the decision to recycle my images came from the logistics of shooting an analog

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during the pandemic where camera stores and film services were

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closed for development so getting film developed was kind of out of the question

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but working with my archive i discovered was an extraordinary source of visual material and inspiration

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i have this belief that a photograph contains a multitude of images and that

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revisiting a photograph unfolds into other images of memory

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taking the smallest detail of of images in my archive for example retained a

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certain residue for me for something to revisit to remember to ponder and to continue

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it casted a critical view on light and perception and i started to get excited about addressing and complicating this

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idea of an expanded image and i asked myself how do these image gather meaning

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and in this context working in a series that questions photography’s materiality affect was triggered by the shifting

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moods of this hybrid installation it was one of the ways it was a way for me to

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kind of connect with the loss of an image and explore questions of language and impermanence

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so as our eyes move across the flat photographs on the wall you move through the room trying out different viewpoints

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searching for clues and connections this gets interfered with by the shimmering lines of the glass sculptures

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in the center of the room so here you have a floor floor sculptures

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so if we can go to the maybe an image of the sculptures on the

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floor um oh sorry

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yeah that that worked perfect um so here the floor sculptures are playing with the title of the of the exhibition

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nearest neighbor the term neighbor of course implies two of

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something but these floor sculptures also function as a subtle suggestion to the tool that

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i use to create the photographs on the wall it’s like a sculptural rendering of a

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two-dimensional gif in photoshop named the marquee tool also known as the

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marching ants um but like the contingent nature of digital imagery the shimmer of this line

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is way more than its function it alters your perception your path in the space your body language

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in the book the neutral roland barthes writes the inventory of shimmers is of nuances of states of changes the shimmer

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described here is metaphorically materialized in this line of glass beads that pools neatly onto the glass

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photographs on the on the floor the process of

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titling these works on the floor as well as on the walls followed a conceptual parameter of using

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micros the microsoft word alt text generator to produce the titles

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from the outset image and text have run parallel with each other each on their own path but staying close

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there’s a disconnect for better or for worse when one tries to describe an image

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through words and vice versa even more so when we leave it up to the fates of automatic generators and algorithms

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for example this alt word engine in microsoft is a generator

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with essentially one goal and that’s to recognize an image and use um key key

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words to describe that image in written language however it’s very rudimentary in its

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descriptions i find it kind of humorous the the way that it kind of uses

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language to describe these abstract photos but i also give them credit too since i can’t really describe what the

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images look like myself so by turning to alt generators the

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result can be like i said humorous but but also dangerous at the same time

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as the description is often inaccurate of what the viewer is seeing to give

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some examples of titles the background pattern description

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automatically generated with medium confidence no image description automatically

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generated with high confidence a picture containing outdoor sunset

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description automatically generated with low confidence content marked as descriptive will not

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expose a description to screen readers i suspect that the generator situates

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itself through observing tonal ranges and space i say this because it read the

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one that had more intensity at the bottom edge than the top edge as a sunset however to

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that logic many of the other photographs should have been labeled a sunset as well but they were just merely a

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background pattern this makes me think that algorithms have personality traits that are not too

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dissimilar to human beings most have this kind of boundless drive determination and persistence to do

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their job but they can also be delusional reckless and impulsive um the algorithm that i use to create

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the images in the exhibition is called nearest neighbor it’s is one of the main like driving force

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for the reason i titled the show this this title um the algorithm’s main job is to do

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essentially to do a proximity search in a photograph so it scans the image for

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pixel values and then optimizes the closest or most similar value to a given

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point i was drawn to it because of its a little alliteration but also because of its personality

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to me nearest neighbor is like a reliable and dependable friend

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it makes very generous decisions about what my photograph needs i think it’s fair and

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impartial there’s no judgment on photos photographs when nearest neighbor does its job i can’t quite say the same about

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the alt text when it declares my photograph has no image it’s impossible to reason with a personality

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like that so i’m i’m interested in things that are out of place and enlarging or extending

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the disarray and the disarranged title or tiny details so it it encompasses our field

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of view the fragmentary nature of the works for example a glitch on the photograph a

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sample of an image the shimmer of of the line of glass beads functions to me as a poem of loss

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and memory however mortal or fleeting it is and how this poem becomes a foundation for our

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own synthesis of feeling and thinking with simple pleasures it’s about rethinking

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singularity and multiplicity and concepts of chants that reveal itself in poetic sentiment that are catalyzed by

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the accident whether within the specific failings of technology

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the fragility of analog processes or just simply encounters with the mundane

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world of daily life so i think right now i’ll give the floor to

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jose andreas to introduce your work and then we can continue going back and forth

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and like we said we’ll open up to some questions yeah wonderful thank you so much that’s

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really that was really great to get a good sense of your work i am just uh i

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stopped um sharing my screen for a second just while i reset stuff

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and thank you so much uh i’m gonna be brief with my uh this group with my um

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sharing of uh off work yeah i

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am just gonna take a second here [Music]

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um okay wonderful so like uh next i also

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went to nascar for my bfa and went to the university of world for my mfa which is where i met meg

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um i have been working as an artist in 2012 uh so for about 10 years about 10 years

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now and uh my work straddles a few different disciplines but i primarily

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would say that i’m an installation artist um in my work i’m interested in how i can

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use the material quality of certain types of technology and processes and also the material

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quality of certain objects to portray a and also hopefully embody in the viewer

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an experience of displacement the work that um it’s playing here is a

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documentation of my work um scanner uh trinity square video that was my graduation show and i’ll it’ll make a

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little bit more sense as i talk more about my work

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so this general theme of displacement has goes way back for me

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in 2012 one of my earliest video works was a video recording of

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many friends of mine talking in different living rooms where in the video i dub my voice over

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the voice of my friends saying the exact same words that they were saying and just going to give you a little bit

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of a sense i’m going to play you just like a quick 15 second excerpt of just so you can so when it comes to

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critiquing things if if something is too far out there

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they just like they think it’s like the worst thing in the world or like they they can’t verbalize

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okay well i’ll give you a prime example and i actually understand what i’m talking about okay so this we did this conceptual piece about or we they’re all

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we all did conceptual pieces and there’s one girl this could conceptualize on so

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just i’m just gonna explain you a quick other exercise to get the sense of the effect um so there’s a very close lip

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syncing there between our dubbing of my voice over my friend’s voice and this particular exercise came from a very

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exploring a very type of vocal exercise i used to do as a teenager

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um where i tried really hard to get rid of my accent of the venezuelan speaking

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english and so i used to do this kind of imitation of other people’s pronunciations to like

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try to erase uh myself i guess and also

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um and and plus and since i did this work i’ve been really interested in different ways of exploring sort of like

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displacements in this location and for me this continued on

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different ways around with written language for example here this is a title work

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recurring sun in which uh different lines of a poem appear one after the next

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uh and the work the poem is a six six words it’s a six line poem that plays

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continuously in a loop um it’s actually kind of hard to read in the documentation some apologies for that um

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but in this work i particularly started getting interested in how

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language works as a video and specifically

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how it works as a as a video in certain when it’s playing in a sort of in a time-based installation in which like

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any viewer enters the work at any point of the of the text being displayed or

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which is like kind of an interesting it’s uh interest specifically actually more specifically with video and how

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in the interactions with the work i started getting interested in

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viewers um entering at any point of the narrative

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um which to me became kind of a a very

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[Music] recurring thought that i had in my work of always considering

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so the sense of not really nearly that of linearity not having a beginning or an end

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and this continued on to more recent work uh where

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[Music] i continue to work with uh this sort of

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linear this sense exploration of linearity or linearity or at least the clear absence of beginning or n gets a

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little more explicit in my work this piece is titled realer and

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really one of the things that becomes really important for me is that there’s a kind

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of narrative arc that happens in the work but also in the experience of the

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work so at the beginning of the conversation i was talking about how i’m interested in

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how certain technologies and objects embody an experience of displacement and this is kind of what i mean by this

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to me it isn’t entirely about what the text or not just what the text says and

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whatever the image shows but also how the works experience as an installation

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i think that i’d like to create an experience where my viewers are put in a situation where they have to triangulate

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their relationship um to the work and also their relationship

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to the language and the relationship the story it tells and it is not processed triangulation

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that are what i refer to as an experience of displacement and then embody it displacement

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uh don’t move on to the next slide there we go and that says continued on to to

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even more recent work this is a work titled rogue lament which is a

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poem that is written in the form of wi-fi network names

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and it is accessed specifically only when a user search for wi-fi networks on a device

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so there’s a little bit more of this continuation of like sort of an unexpected encounter with the work but

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also just a position where the person has to and

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it’s put in a evaluation of like what it is that they’re encountering

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and sort of like further exploring this this experience of this of a displacement like what is going on why

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why is this text here what is why am i encountered in in this particular

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format and this work really more appointedly explores that because um

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the key thing about it is that it’s intended to uh it works with a battery so it can be

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taken anywhere and it’s i display it primarily in places where

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people search for wi-fi networks in like naturally or already like cafes or

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bus stations or things like that but like uh there is already kind of like a process

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of people going through wi-fi now that happens kind of naturally

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um and um this is sort of moved on to the more

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recent body of work that i’ve uh that i’ve explored

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that i’ve worked on which is a series of images and an exhibition called the mornings in reverse

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and this um this the series of works um

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work a little bit differently in terms of like how to explore this sense of displacement that i described

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because one of the underlying methods or one of the the background

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ways that i’ve or one of one of the underlying themes of this exhibition is that there’s actually there’s a

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[Music] there’s a it works off of this this um

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what you can call that kind of like a a launching pad of considering memory as something

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that is that shifts by each set by each in each moment of remembering that the process

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of recalling damages memories and there is a sort of like a

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process of intense like input of energy to try to remember

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things the way that they are but and not in that intent and process of trying to work to keep

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things alive the things begin to be great as well and

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the all the images and text in this exhibition uh come

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from uh or operate from a a point of view that is sort of a citation process

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meaning that they’re all taking from a specific

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fictional narrative but the fictional narrative is not

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this close to the viewer so throughout this in this citation process

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people are getting ex bits and excerpts of a longer story a longer fictional story but also a fiction story that

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they’re not really getting an entire sense of and

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this is kind of a a way for me to continue to kind of explain the sense of like the viewer having to go through this

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process of triangulation and and and and sort of situating themselves in

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relations to the work that they’re experiencing so that’s

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the short version about it that’s like a little introduction to what i do

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and with having said all of that um i’m really i’m really glad to be here i i’m

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really curious to get um started with asking some questions i’m glad that you got a chance to talk

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about the photo books because i know that you mentioned that you hadn’t really had a chance to talk about

34:23

them a lot before yeah and i also really appreciated you going

34:28

a little bit over what the um what the

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algorithms that you use whether where they are originally be intended for for using

34:40

um yeah well i i think it’s really interesting that we have a lot of themes and ideas that overlap with our

34:47

practices but we approach it very differently um for you it seems like you engage with

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the fragmentary nature of of language or decoding or translating um

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and you talk about you know this the shift for the the viewer into displacement and

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in many ways i think that this work at the agg um does something similar

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um as i am interested in things out of place and enlarging tiny details that

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can maybe hint towards certain things but my work is very um

35:24

almost completely formless but you kind of give a hint of what we might be

35:29

seeing so that like specific work that you just showed that um a sunset is a sunrise in

35:35

reverse the parenthesis of my day opened against my will to sleep before dawn and would

35:42

close against my will to sleep after dusk even just saying that out loud also

35:47

leads me to another question about how your title works um because

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the titles of my works is very um important to the

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the intention of of the work and using algorithms um but they can also be seen as like

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fragments of the artwork so it can either help to plant an idea

36:11

um or maybe even blur the meaning further so yeah what like what it where do you

36:17

stand what are your thoughts yeah that’s i’m glad that you’re bringing that up because i kind of wanted to

36:22

start talking a little bit about that too because we both kind of use uh

36:28

algorithms similarly and i brought up this i brought this image with me because this is

36:34

kind of shows you like the back the skeleton of how my images are made and

36:40

there is sort of a big underlying part of it is the the abusive tool that um

36:47

where i give a a field a vector field these sort of

36:52

reference points of like color and then the computer using its own algorithm and some thinking

36:58

uh like parameters um tries to triangulate what the gradient

37:06

will be like from this point to this point and from this point to this point and so on and so forth so that’s

37:11

that’s a little bit how i use uh the kind of like i guess like algorithms in my work

37:16

um but i was actually but i was thinking that for for you there’s almost like a

37:23

in the way at least that that you you interact with it’s pretty restrictive

37:30

well i wouldn’t call it restrict about what i would say is that you actually cannot take them kind of literally in a sense which i think is interesting

37:36

and like in the in the sense of like near as neighbor being like you kind of like you draw meaning from the name of

37:43

it and you also draw a meaning you almost you’re in your papers which i uh maybe people some some folks in the

37:50

audience might have had the chance to read um you even

37:55

give a certain amount of personality to them

38:00

i mean it’s interesting i feel like i preach this all the time i’ve been thinking about it a lot about

38:06

how we we forget that algorithms and programs like photoshop are made by human beings

38:13

so i kind of have this visual in my head of like a think tank of people sitting around a

38:19

table and saying what makes a good image and um what should we

38:24

make the default settings of these like you know programs and and

38:30

algorithms as they’re building and creating these these systems um and so i start to think

38:38

about those specific people and their own you know like what they value in a as a

38:44

good image or what they value and being a user of the program and so it

38:50

it’s hard for me to separate those creators personalities that are just kind of fed into the algorithms

38:59

and so that’s why when i give a lot of um thoughts and maybe almost think of it in

39:05

an extremely linear way i i do that because it allows me to

39:10

question even like what do i value in an image or an artwork and so when i when i’m

39:17

sampling these images and cropping and expanding details at the same time hiding them

39:23

or hiding others it’s it’s constantly asking why

39:29

and i think this is very specific to digital technology although it

39:34

it kind of can happen with analog processes but that’s sort of why i think of

39:41

yeah personalities of algorithms and just a conventional use of parameters

39:47

yeah now that’s nice to hear because i was actually going to go back to your question about you’re asking me how i title my works

39:54

and uh i okay so the way that i title works is

40:01

it’s funny because i tend to [Music] work

40:06

with my work because there’s something there’s a there’s a huge amount of proximity to

40:13

personal experience in my work it’s very it takes a lot from my just from like things that i’ve lived and

40:19

one of the ways that i deal with that is i actually fictionalize a lot of the things that i reference and

40:26

therefore there’s a kind of like an author real voice or sent like a sense of like

40:33

i’m separate from the voice that’s right that’s written if that makes sense and so there’s like

40:39

it in that way is sort of a little bit similar to a sort of a conventional writing

40:45

form and that you um there’s a there’s a kind of understanding of the authors not the

40:51

voice is the character and what i try to shape and work with is sort of the is

40:58

is like how much of that narrator or speaker my public interacts with

41:05

and but it’s nice to hear it you talk about how

41:12

some of your um interests in the algorithms is actually or like at least the language of the

41:18

algorithms is very personal because there’s like a it’s i was wondering if

41:25

you did a similar process like i was wondering if like you were like oh am i

41:30

is it this is actually like next interpretation of like

41:36

how algorithms like think or is that kind of like a fiction

41:42

not like is that a fictionalized person encountering the um yeah the algorithms

41:48

i’m not sure if it’s so important that these photographs are situated

41:54

in or like that people know that they’re from a personal archive because they’re not that’s not clear you

42:01

don’t see you don’t come into the space and think wow this is a very personal work

42:06

um but it is because it comes from my own images but like i could apply this technique to

42:13

any photographs that i don’t have a connection to but maybe the personal does create for

42:20

me like a stronger relationship for me in in the making of the work and i think

42:25

that is important for me to be excited about about the work that i am doing

42:31

um but yeah you’re right in that in my thesis paper as a support as a supporting paper

42:37

for this work i do share memories and some details about the original photographs um

42:44

that these images kind of came from and i think that’s kind of central to

42:50

photography in that this practice kind of hinges on the transference of of memory like

42:56

oscillating from between like control and chance but that memory that is created is

43:03

um it’s not um it’s not a moment that is replete it’s it’s formless and it

43:09

continues um to evolve over time and when i talk about this idea of like

43:15

images are within images um you know it’s like this personal archive

43:22

in a it’s like a time capsule i don’t know if you’ve ever played this game but i recently played it with some

43:28

close friends who i haven’t seen in a while actually some friends in montreal and it’s where you think of a random

43:35

very specific date and then you scroll through your phone to find that date and

43:40

then share the photo um and sometimes it’s really funny but then other times it just sparks like a

43:46

conversation of like oh that’s what you did on you know april 2nd

43:52

2018. you know and you you can like kind of go back and we’re often like i mean

43:58

for me my my google phones go back in to like 2008

44:05

so it’s like you forget that you take these photographs um

44:12

but yeah so it is hard to take away the personal but i mean how do you how do you use the

44:18

personal in your work well first of all that game terrifies me like

44:24

like like scrolling through like it’s showing but like i know that’s too scary to me

44:31

i’m playing with myself like i i’ll i’ll be a little self-conscious to do with

44:37

someone else uh well okay so i’m really happy that you’re asking this because um i was

44:43

gonna ask you about this as well so like this because

44:49

i’m interested in working with memory as it’s experienced subjectively so

44:55

for example um like in the mornings in reverse um

45:01

there this particular poem uh which was um

45:07

maybe i’ll just quickly read it so i i never read my poetry so this is weird

45:13

because i just dragged into the press intense the memory of a pairing blade concealed

45:19

within a folded newspaper is a foreign event nobody said that the past turns into

45:26

plasticine figurines and that one’s own hands when they reach with thirst into

45:31

the past tense when they anticipate the familiar edges of shelf memories dent everything with

45:38

the weight of each grasp i fear through my skin’s intuition that what i hold in my hands i haven’t helped

45:45

before and then the strangeness of my own past to myself betrays habitual

45:50

remembrance i have to forget to remember well so in this form like what what i’m

45:56

interested in what i mean by how memories experienced subjectively for me i’m interested in liking what happens

46:02

when things are remembered and misremembered and how memories change over time and that’s

46:09

kind of what i what i mean by like how retrieving memories damages memories

46:15

um and and so like the process of recalling something

46:22

blends in a certain amount of fabrication as well because you kind of miss filling the missing gaps

46:29

but for you you have this interest in archives and this is interesting for me because archives are

46:36

instinctively less mutable than subjective memory because it’s subjective memory is

46:42

tied to a person and a arc upstate to an actual object

46:48

and i was also thinking that like subjective memory and archives then kind of become like analogs

46:55

kind of to spoke like subjective memories and analog to spoken language and archives

47:01

is kind of an analog to written language because you want to start to this one site with speaker and the other one

47:07

started to an object in posterity and for me one of the things that is interesting about the written language

47:13

is that the fact that the ability to interpret its meaning is subject to the context in

47:19

which the reader finds the text right and so there’s a kind of fragility to

47:25

meaning despite the concreteness of the thing and i was wondering if for you something similar happens with archives

47:31

like is there a fragile equality to them for you and what is if that makes sense to you

47:38

like what does that fragility mean to you yeah yeah i think um

47:45

i think there’s something boundless in the analog image and maybe even more with the digital image i think the

47:51

difference between digital and analog is just really a technological shift it’s not that one is better or

47:58

like than the other but that there’s something that happens when they coincide

48:04

um and so when i think about the again with my when i think about the

48:09

fragmentary nature of my work like a glitch on a photograph or a sample of an image or the shimmer like what we’re

48:16

seeing right now of the line of glass beads to me kind of function as an interruption

48:22

so this interruption is perhaps a it’s the the interruption between

48:27

digital and analog or maybe it’s just an interruption of thought um like thought of of um

48:35

of memory but kind of what you’re saying and i know we’ve talked about it before

48:40

but it’s that book called the gestures of writing and lines and surfaces by um

48:46

v lim flusser write the gesture of writing and he basically if this is uh

48:53

yeah yeah it it provides an analysis of our understanding of the world that is

49:00

constructed through basically two forms um writing and images which might

49:06

like one might consider um fundamental turning points in the human

49:11

culture and he kind of talks about how images or abstractions of reality which

49:16

i i agree with and i think it’s really hard to separate the question of

49:21

abstraction when talking about photographs but there’s a quote here i think it’s related

49:28

it says he says if we lose our ability to decode the images our lives will

49:33

instead become a function of images and our mi our imagination instead turns

49:39

into a form of hallucination

49:45

i don’t know it kind of has this plan on memory to me

49:50

and just how like uh images are just filled with like one image can be filled with um a

49:56

multitude of of memories yeah and

50:02

yeah i guess that’s kind of that’s it’s kind of like what i was wondering if you

50:10

could elaborate on anything thanks for doing so because i i do find that um

50:17

that there’s a kind that even though you’re you’re working with these everybody’s

50:23

archives images just the kind of like mutability to to the archive that you work with

50:30

that i that i appreciate a lot because there’s a sort of um

50:37

you know there’s a very subject still a very kind of subjective interaction with with the thing itself and i find it i

50:45

think that i find that kind of interesting because to me kind of one of the interesting things about working with memory was or is um

50:52

how it works like more like within like someone’s head um

50:59

but for it’s nice to see you kind of enjoy interacting with how that applies to how you interact with

51:06

the actual physical uh or the actual archive right

51:13

well i think i mean a big part of my research over the course of my mfa was about thinking about language and

51:19

how it can be tactile and fragile and although it’s not extremely present in here in this environment you know

51:27

where behind me it was the starting point of the work and i think

51:33

when i think about um i guess like we mentioned a little bit about my the

51:40

thesis and i had a really great time uh writing that because essentially i

51:46

had to write a thesis paper about photographs and it just made sense that i used language like i kind of it was a

51:54

requirement but it also i got really into describing and and talking about the memory and like

52:00

being really personal about sharing um what the original photograph kind of

52:06

meant to me um but then when you kind of mix it with this like that text doesn’t exist in

52:13

this space um maybe it should maybe maybe the the two

52:19

don’t like to like go hand in hand um but i think the way that i was thinking

52:24

about language was this like thinking about the fragility of it and

52:30

that it’s hard to not think about poets because they actively disrupt words and sentences and thrive off the notion that

52:37

language is fragile and they make something beautiful and i think i i see this work as like a

52:44

a giant poem like a poem without words um you you’ve used um a lot of images and

52:52

text in your work and i wonder if you thought about that exploration of language that might be separate from

52:58

images um you know i think for me like in this

53:04

work there is a play with language um because of the titles because i i use

53:09

a broken system of the word like a very like basic generator to create

53:17

a written description of of the words um but some people like quite honestly

53:22

might miss that until they go home and maybe like look at the brochure if they take it and then

53:27

notice these weird titles so there might be a separate experience with the viewers

53:33

um like viewing the images and reading the text that is associated with the images

53:40

so i’m kind of curious how what your thoughts are on on the play between image and text

53:48

um well for me the yeah it’s

53:57

yeah it’s funny because i for me like just thinking

54:03

there is kind of a separation between yes what like what the text

54:08

is and how it operates as an image and

54:14

um you know it like i try to make it so that like in in

54:22

in when folks interact with language in

54:28

am i working in my work and i think you do the same but you do it differently is

54:33

is i i try the the text to kind of make sense in

54:41

how and and how out of place it is that

54:46

makes sense yeah so like i one of the reasons why i like working with the language written languages that

54:53

it the fact that it’s not inside of a textbook

54:58

uh or in book or whatever or conventional reading place where somebody would experience

55:04

like written like literature in our poetry is that then the con the meaning

55:10

of the text makes sense in the context that it’s encountered so it kind of gives it a bit of a side specificity and

55:16

so it it kind of ties the language to the object and to the place where it’s

55:21

experienced and i try to do that in in my work and i think that kind of

55:28

happens also with the way that you title your work because there’s a kind of suddenly because it’s so removed from

55:35

its context it kind of leaves the viewer at a in a place of like wondering

55:41

like what what what is it what’s its origin and there’s a kind of a similar kind of experience of

55:46

displacement of like okay look what this there’s something that’s not working here so that’s kind of how i view that

55:53

um and but it’s funny that you’re talking about your your paper and

56:00

because i i also find that that you’re in your in your writing you’re really

56:08

really really really generous um like really talking about about

56:14

how much like you’re talking about you’re talking about everything i know exactly how your work is made like i

56:19

know like i know precisely like every bit of like process that went into them and i

56:27

kind of appreciate that to be honest because i put that photo here it’s like in this work like i just i really like

56:33

seeing what i i really like showing a little bit like how things

56:40

like what what what are the steps what like what one of the things and hug not

56:45

there’s something interesting to me about that that yeah sometimes have difficulties articulating and i was wondering maybe what it like what did

56:52

what meaning that is there for you to like be so like yeah i mean the process

56:57

yeah i mean artists take keep secrets all the time although we don’t really say secrets we just rather speak in a

57:04

secret code that only insiders will understand they’re one of my favorite writers in

57:10

art um amy sealman kind of writes about this in her essay on color

57:15

but revealing my secrets and sharing step by step processes of how i create what i create

57:21

i think just allows for every detail to be present and talked about you know we

57:26

can talk about the memories of the photographs we can conceptualize about the tools that were used to create

57:33

the photographs we can discuss the fact that making art can happen outside of the

57:39

studio and outside of the making and i think that um

57:46

i don’t know how this will land but i think that secrets can reveal what we value

57:53

and yeah i don’t know i yeah i mean and again

57:59

like it’s not present in the space it’s really in

58:05

when you read the text or like the paper and then you’re in the space and you see it

58:10

um so like maybe my work should exist in like a photo book where you kind of have

58:16

all of you know all of it because i do struggle with like using

58:22

like sharing like having all that information and the i guess what you said like generosity in

58:28

the way that i wrote about this work for the paper how that can be present in the space

58:34

um that’s something i haven’t really like figured out yet because i really i do enjoy

58:41

sharing that and i enjoy writing um just how they kind of

58:47

coincide in the same space i find that really difficult you obviously don’t you do it really well

58:54

that’s really nice of you no but it’s funny because i i really um

58:59

[Music] i don’t know i i like the way that you describe it if there is meaning in what

59:07

it’s in there’s meaning in the details and i guess there’s meaning in the secrets in

59:12

the sense of like there’s meaning for you like there’s like you kind of show what

59:18

it is that matters to you in the process when you share those things and

59:24

i find it really difficult to sometimes not talk about persons in my work sometimes because like

59:30

i i really think i i think similarly to you um but uh sometimes it’s someone to bombard

59:37

everyone with like very my new shadow america’s like but i think for you that

59:44

that description is really it’s really i think that’s a layer

59:49

of like i said generosity that kind of you know for a body of work that could

59:54

easily read on on first glance as like that there’s

1:00:00

not a lot of the artists present because there’s so much process there’s a lot of of you in those processes and those

1:00:06

decisions and that to me that is where i started getting it right so it’s getting really interesting where i can kind of see and peek into

1:00:13

the details of like where where you are in the world i also have something to add i might say

1:00:20

that it’s it feels maybe the same gesture of writing a diary

1:00:26

because for me like i’m starting to lose um

1:00:32

the original details of that photograph because they’re just becoming their own images themselves

1:00:38

um separate from where they came from and so for like the photo crop kind of

1:00:43

enhances those details that can trigger a memory of the day that the

1:00:49

thought i took the photograph but now i might be mistaken and you know in fact it’s not the same

1:00:55

memory that’s attached to the photo that i initially took but it still has

1:01:00

this capacity to generate um like a deep emotional response and

1:01:07

it kind of shifts something else like now looking back at these images you’ll be very different than

1:01:13

where they originally came from for me and i think that’s what happens when you start to stretch the photograph like for

1:01:20

example in this one it’s hard to see in the documentation because i think the scale and the types

1:01:27

of photo papers that i’m using you can see where there’s a point where the pixels start to have edges

1:01:34

and the image becomes formless and the color kind of absorbs or

1:01:40

or like bathes the space in light so it just becomes this other thing

1:01:46

but i don’t i don’t think that i still believe that there’s images within images

1:01:52

um it it just doesn’t have to be the like correct one like i don’t who cares it

1:01:57

doesn’t matter um but like do you do you think that an image can exist as uh

1:02:04

as like a single entity or do you agree that there’s images within images

1:02:10

what are your thoughts well i mean to me is always um you know

1:02:15

in terms of uh an image you know i think it kind of like protects an image in the same

1:02:20

category of a thing in terms of that there’s an interpretive

1:02:26

process that happens between uh but between interpretive phrases happens in the viewer when we’re interacting with

1:02:33

it and that kind of mutability to me is interesting uh and

1:02:39

and i can i guess that’s kind of a as far as i would go in terms of like considering an image within an image

1:02:44

like if i’m interpreting it the way that you’re explaining it correctly

1:02:50

um yeah i i mean in fact

1:02:57

sorry that this actually now that i’m talking about this i’m thinking maybe this is actually an interesting segue

1:03:03

into the last little bit of uh that i wanted to talk to you before

1:03:08

opening into questions i’m just keeping an eye on time um and maybe this is a prompt for folks

1:03:14

if anyone has any questions that they want to start preparing uh i know it’s the time but before opening it

1:03:20

up this particular image um i asked you to share with me because uh i wanted

1:03:26

what one of the comments that came into your in your uh one of the

1:03:31

comments that i was setting your defense i believe it was susan robson who brought it up or it was a question i

1:03:37

thought it was a really good question which was a discussion of like whether you saw

1:03:43

the viewer as an algorithm in the terms of like you ask them are you putting us in a position of like

1:03:50

having to interpret these images and i i did a funny little exercise of

1:03:56

sharing this image to people who’ve never seen your your uh your your work uh and ask them to tell me

1:04:04

what they thought it was um so i’ll give you the quick list of it okay and i asked i also asked them for

1:04:10

the level of certainty [Music] out of their description so

1:04:16

the first one the first one blew my mind one person said it’s a corrupted pixel oh my god

1:04:23

which is kind of okay mind-blowing it’s pretty close

1:04:28

yeah a smog smok sky in beijing medium certainty

1:04:35

zoomed in skin uncertain section of the sky at sunset

1:04:42

medium certainty and skin under the light high certainty

1:04:49

that’s amazing there you go i think that’s my next project

1:04:56

uh yeah well in that note i’m gonna open it up and

1:05:04

uh i’m gonna ask nicole’s question here so

1:05:11

my question relates i’m sorry for anybody that that wants to see the questions in the show it’s in the chat right now

1:05:17

so my question relates to audience reception slash i’m struck by how you’re both the

1:05:23

blowing you both deploy a chance in your work by leaving some of the generative processed

1:05:29

up to algorithms and the like i noted that meg you talked about the work being deceptive in a way jose

1:05:35

andres you mentioned this idea of fictionalizing the language in the work

1:05:41

with leaving room for uncertainty have you ever been surprised by the way that your audience responds to your work

1:05:47

have there ever been chance encounters in interactions with audiences

1:05:54

how do you feel about that um i love hearing like what you just mentioned i love hearing people respond

1:06:03

and um however whatever they see and i think that um

1:06:10

this kind of work really does welcome all these different interpretations

1:06:15

um of different readings um

1:06:21

i’m just trying to like reread it um

1:06:26

yeah do you wanna do you wanna respond i don’t know yeah well in terms of like

1:06:32

yeah yeah of course um and in terms of um the sort of incorporation this

1:06:38

incorporation of chance to me it’s pretty important it might work in the sense that

1:06:46

uh kind of like generally speaking i tend to try to approach working with technology with a certain amount of

1:06:53

um latitude in terms of what i when i mean but that is there is um

1:07:00

something more interesting to letting things letting the system operate in a way that

1:07:07

you might not find it predictable um

1:07:13

especially because especially when one works with technology one tends to sort of interpret the interaction between

1:07:19

user and technology as being one of control of like you know you yield the technology to give you a result

1:07:26

and to me me working with technology in general becomes more our processes

1:07:32

actually even not just technology but like even a rigid process becomes more interesting when

1:07:38

that um where the result becomes open-ended because it

1:07:45

then you have room for interpreting um and for working with what happened

1:07:50

through chance rather than setting out to work to get a specific result right

1:07:59

that’s good that’s kind of how i feel about that is there anything else you want to add

1:08:05

no i guess when i think about chance in relation to photography almost everything has the potential to

1:08:13

be interfered with and change the outcome of an image so the uninfected and the affected kind

1:08:20

of adds to the sense of um like photography’s lucidity and um that’s why

1:08:29

for me it’s really exciting um [Music] but

1:08:38

nestor krueger asks my apologies if this is too obvious but i am interested to hear what attracts

1:08:45

the two of you to the gradient and i’m gonna let you go for that first if you want

1:08:53

sure yeah um [Music] i guess the

1:08:58

because the work has no lines or edges um and that they’re just these flat gradients of color some more broken than

1:09:05

others the curation of photographs that i choose for the that i chose for the final exhibition was

1:09:13

purely a discussion based on this question of the gradient or based on color

1:09:18

so for me um during the process i kind of had a limited control of what samples

1:09:24

i was finding in my archive and it’s simple to describe something like this that you’re seeing this yellow or orange

1:09:31

or light colors in the work because those are typically colors of light and when searching for

1:09:37

these moments of error light leaks are the easiest to spot and there usually is kind of a gradient

1:09:43

is where the the film negative is being stretched and light kind of seeps into

1:09:49

the emulsion and it it has this different gradients of intensities

1:09:56

but other colors kind of come from chemistry failures and the analog processes and of course there’s like a

1:10:02

black one that is almost absent or complete absorption of like visible light

1:10:08

so gradient to me um in this environment kind of suggests an

1:10:15

atmosphere of something that um [Music]

1:10:20

that that’s uh it’s so hard not to like

1:10:26

use the word beautiful but there is there is something that i’m like obviously

1:10:32

like interested in the way that they look um

1:10:37

but it could be like it’s hard to pinpoint what that gradient is so something is

1:10:42

like either really out of focus or it’s something like what your friend had

1:10:48

mentioned of seeing sunsets or seeing a sky um that there’s a tip like a

1:10:54

a very simple gradient in nature that we see especially when we take

1:11:00

you know with smartphones it kind of like amplifies that um

1:11:07

so i like the gradient and i’m actually i’m kind of curious to

1:11:12

see like what this photo would look like versus doing a gradient on

1:11:18

like painting a gradient through photoshop and seeing the differences or

1:11:23

or if there is any because again those algorithms and generators would come come into play

1:11:30

and maybe it would create an identical or something close um

1:11:36

what are your thoughts on the gradient um well nestor i think that question is too

1:11:42

obvious sorry i’m not going to answer i’m getting i’m kidding uh

1:11:47

i i’m only saying this because i know nestor um

1:11:53

i began working with with the gradients um i’m gonna go back to the

1:11:59

my images at the very beginning um the first images that i started working

1:12:04

with were these text-based ones and i was originally trying to

1:12:09

[Music] um it kind of worked i started working as a bit of um

1:12:17

a very simple exercise of trying to make a piece of paper look like it had been exposed to science to light damage so

1:12:23

now i can’t just funny i never make the connection it’s similar to you in that sense only then i was working trying to

1:12:29

do a simile of damage by sunlight and so

1:12:35

when that’s kind of what start catalyzing my use or i catalyze my use of gradients to

1:12:40

begin with um similar to eu there’s a there’s obviously an

1:12:48

aesthetic interest but for when i started working on

1:12:54

specifically and trying to do the flexibility or the simulation of degradation of color i was um

1:13:01

part of me was also just trying to [Music]

1:13:07

reproduce or emulate the the process of how color phase or what stages

1:13:14

of decay happen when um a particular ink or particular color is

1:13:20

exposed to sunlight and i was trying to do this to kind of create

1:13:26

to create prints that were a um

1:13:32

sort of an arresting of time in between a state of of

1:13:38

um falling apart and a state of being of how they were printed originally

1:13:43

and i was i was trying to use the this sort of very archival method of printing

1:13:48

as a way to really kind of like you know get it stuck in time

1:13:55

by using by using um the sort of very archival um photo in direct process

1:14:02

um but naturally as i worked with the tool more um i started noticing what things it did um despite my will and

1:14:10

um i started to use the

1:14:16

sort of like gradient composite process to

1:14:22

create simulations of an image out of focus and there is something that you were talking

1:14:28

about in your appreciation of the gradient that i think you and i both share which

1:14:34

is how there’s a sort of like moment of uncertainty of like deciphering what something is

1:14:39

um and that is really

1:14:45

that that’s really what really if like it if i started with cat you’re like the

1:14:50

catalyst of it was like working like to make the simulations when i noticed

1:14:56

that this was happening and the uncertainty of interpretation that’s really what propelled me to continue working on it was when i started

1:15:02

noticing that um it was possible to create these

1:15:08

ambiguous representations of um of a scene or

1:15:16

a place and that there was also not just an ambiguity to the

1:15:22

represented object or scene but also an immediate after what how the image is

1:15:28

constructed as well um and so that they’re great like working with a gradient and this

1:15:36

with this particular process that’s really what i i latched on to continue working on what

1:15:41

the reason why i continued working on uh on these images was pretty much that and

1:15:48

the other thing that this is just like a really basic thing is i really enjoyed not working i was working with vectors

1:15:55

and but i wasn’t working with any hard lines and you know and the lines that were being formed or

1:16:01

suggestions of lines where it’s by like literally putting two gradients near each other right so

1:16:06

there was something really fun about that because i used to paint like a million years ago and it

1:16:13

was just kind of fun to work with um

1:16:19

i have a question here by andrew uh thank you both so much for your generosity and work thank you

1:16:27

uh i’m wondering if you could discuss the dream space to exhibit these works there are so many possibilities for

1:16:33

audience encounters with these works with billboards billboards sorry as relation exchanges as books etc just

1:16:41

curious how you imagine these works existing outside of the gallery and

1:16:46

meg is gone well i wanted to grab one of these books

1:16:52

[Laughter] that’s why i left i totally see these existing outside the

1:16:58

gallery and because i want people to interact with them and i

1:17:04

think of these as books i i’m curious how they would travel as books like put them

1:17:10

through um like book slots or you know people carrying them in

1:17:16

their tote bags and you know this like travel and how that would change

1:17:23

the um kind of quality and like you know how like a book is really

1:17:30

well loved and it kind of has these like like a broken spine or like you know frayed edges i feel like that’s what

1:17:36

would happen to these photographs on the mdf um

1:17:42

so that i i can see existing it’s harder to

1:17:47

situate these like extreme um flat aluminum

1:17:53

prints that’s not on a wall um but also there is kind of the

1:18:01

something could be interesting if it it wasn’t in a controlled environment because nothing’s

1:18:08

protecting the photographs it’s just the the prince so they easily

1:18:14

get damaged um and uh yeah i mean it’s it would be a full

1:18:21

circle i guess because the photographs come from moments of error

1:18:27

um so if something kind of disrupted that

1:18:32

it would make sense um but for your aunt your question andrew i

1:18:38

think it’s these things that um i would like to see in backpacks and

1:18:43

tote bags and um yeah i would like to see it outside the gallery

1:18:49

yeah intensive for my work um there is uh

1:18:56

sorry i’m like trying to go forward to my images in the show here they’re one of

1:19:02

the things that i i was very excited about for these particular

1:19:08

images was um the the

1:19:14

control over like the how people related to them in terms of their

1:19:21

relationship people’s no in the work and and the answers well

1:19:26

a lot of the prints are fairly big um i believe the biggest one is this one’s 50 by 50

1:19:33

um and the elements vary obviously um but anyway seriously

1:19:38

there’s a there’s a my intention was to kind of like have the images meet the viewers

1:19:45

like with a fairly sizable scale

1:19:51

and that may not necessarily be something that happens in a gallery only it’s easier to do in a gallery space um

1:19:58

i and for those images in particular i i

1:20:03

really i can envision them existing in other forms as well but

1:20:10

the main the main um parameter would have to be something

1:20:16

that’s where people are are still able to encounter them kind of at an eye

1:20:21

level and that could be in a variety of different situations not necessarily at

1:20:27

a gallery space but that kind of like closeness to the works is important

1:20:32

to me at least for now um in terms of the

1:20:38

um oh there i mean this work is intended to roam around right of course you know just wherever

1:20:44

it shows up it shows up um and uh realer has always been also

1:20:49

very similar in terms of the the kind of relationship to to body and

1:20:56

work that i have it’s it’s intended to kind of like meet you at a

1:21:01

at a very kind like a visceral level um so [Music]

1:21:07

in short answer to to the questions like it’s as as long as like

1:21:12

that is like the most important parameter for me um not so much the the

1:21:17

venue but definitely the the one-to-one kind of relationship is important

1:21:25

thank you for those questions yeah thank you and um

1:21:31

yeah i don’t see any more questions in the chat i know we’ve been keeping people for a bit of a time we’re heading

1:21:36

into an hour and a half really yeah that’s what happens when you put two people who ramble together

1:21:43

um so maybe i’ll open it up to uh nicole once again and i’ll stop sharing

1:21:54

well i just want to take a a really brief moment to thank um both of you meg and jose

1:22:02

andreas for sharing with us this experience of a dialogue between artists in the studio

1:22:09

between colleagues between friends uh you’re both so generous uh in the way that you share your practice with

1:22:16

all of us who have joined the conversation today but even as you say i’m really struck by how you’re keen on

1:22:22

sharing your practice and and your process with uh viewers as they

1:22:27

stop by the gallery to see your your work as it were um so uh on that note if

1:22:33

you are joining us from somewhere that is close to guelph nearest neighbor is up until june 19th

1:22:40

and i strongly encourage you to stop by i don’t think i need to tell anyone that uh it’s very much

1:22:46

a different experience um [Music] having the chance to be bathed in the

1:22:51

light of those gradient colors as you described it so aptly meg

1:22:57

um and i also wanted to just mention that uh later this month we have another

1:23:04

exhibition coming up by uh mfa uh student rehab essay um whose exhibition

1:23:10

is uh i dream of a soft oasis and this opens on june 29th we are so um

1:23:18

grateful for our partnership with the school of fine art music at the university of guelph that gives us an

1:23:23

opportunity to connect with um students to show their work and so uh um

1:23:31

we’re really thankful for that partnership that brings exhibitions like this uh to the gallery

1:23:37

um i also thought i’d mention quickly that we have another online conversation coming up between

1:23:42

uh artist gail uyagaki kabluna and curator taco the partridge who

1:23:48

the the exhibition they worked on together is also up at the art gallery of guelph

1:23:54

and that talk is happening on june 14th um so i invite all of you to join us for

1:23:59

that um of course i need to thank our funders the ontario arts council and the canada council for the arts um

1:24:06

last but not least uh um my sincere thanks for everyone who joined us today and for your questions uh i must thank

1:24:13

um meg and jose andreas again thank you so much for sharing this conversation

1:24:20

with us today thank you for giving us the space to do thank you so much yeah absolutely

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