0:11

get the picture now how’s that that way

0:18

totally so the one on the left is Edward monk that that’s from the spam is called self-portrait with the Spanish flu and

0:26

then from 1919 quite bright and colorful

0:33

and even the breast trip I think there’s like a kind of rigor there I feel like

0:39

there’s an energy there as opposed to the petition on the right which is

0:45

during the time the Black Plague four or five hundred years earlier

0:51

and how’s thinking this was so such a striking difference between the two

0:59

both Titian and monk had well monk had

1:06

spinal fluid Titian at the bubonic plague I mean those are very different

1:12

things too but they’re both they’re both pandemics that devastated communities

1:19

and made death a very kind of real

1:28

tangible thing I reckon their lives monk

1:34

recovered he did a portrait while he had Spanish flu and Titian this was the last

1:40

meaning ever made so he was doing this as he was dying probably and I believe

1:46

that is his son as well as himself and I

1:52

just thought it was interesting to think about this these works because and I’ll

1:57

just kind of go back to what I was saying earlier in that they’re reflective of how each of us have to

2:06

each of us are alone we know where it connected through zoom and technology

2:11

they didn’t really have that back then they’re more isolated I think but even

2:17

still you know we have people in long-term care homes that are isolated

2:23

or you know whenever you’re in quarantine you’re isolated by yourself

2:29

you’re essentially dealing these things by yourself if you do get sick or if a loved one gets sick right so in the end

2:36

I think it’s this it’s illustrative of this fact that you know ultimately we

2:42

experience these pandemics whether it’s flu or plague or co19 and a really

2:51

personal intimate way we’re really just generally confronted with the self and I think that’s what happens with these

2:57

self-portraits right and I definitely I think that these artists are coming out

3:04

in very different ways Titian is almost like a it’s almost like well I would be

3:14

surprised if he I think he knew he was dying maybe he knew he was son was going and this is kind of like a prayer and

3:27

kind of a preparation for the afterlife of what is coming

3:34

maybe I mean it’s impossible to say what was going through their heads at that time but I feel like there’s a certain

3:41

cognizance there in this it’s like an offering but in the in the sense that

3:47

heat there you know Titian in the corner taking Jesus’s hand in the left it’s

3:53

like he’s offering comfort but it’s really I think the opposite he was looking for comfort and in his last days

4:02

well anyway we could kind of read into pain I could talk about paintings all the two long day but and we don’t have

4:08

to make you guys do that but I thought that these two were just so illustrative of the very many different ways that we

4:15

all have to experience this pandemic in our own way and and I think ultimately

4:22

any kind of art that comes out of this experience will also be really

4:31

individualized in personal and intimate in the same way what do you guys think

4:41

where’s Mike so the birds are maybe can you hear the birds yeah oh yeah like it

4:48

was like your thought going there I I think it I think if it happens now I’m

4:56

gonna less likely be maybe there’ll be a few people but it would be less likely to be that literal you know I think when

5:05

subjects if you you can deal with a subject beyond its immediate theatrics

5:12

mmm like it you know you could you can actually make things that imply like

5:18

like Barnett Newman Stations of the Cross you know it’s about Christ’s walk

5:23

out the fella whatever chemical term but walking with to cross through the through the town

5:29

and and rather than Illustrated he made he made an equivalent of it so it was a

5:37

literal narrative but it was equivalent of the of the passion or in a sense of

5:42

you know what what was actually happening in in that sort of completely

5:49

emotional and I don’t mean an internal drama rather than an outside

5:55

illustrative drama right I think some people will you know if you take that

6:01

Vietnamese pictures you know that a bit of work our way into art those some of those horrible pictures some people get

6:08

that and then other people did you know something that would be a boat of something to like Vietnam without being

6:14

Vietnam so it’ll didn’t the interesting to see when the artists in the next year

6:21

or two or whatever how many years this goes you know well how many will be literal how many will maybe be

6:28

responding in a less non representational way but looking for the

6:33

same power and the same like you say Rick the differences and how somebody

6:40

might choose yeah if at all like some people might just want to put this whole thing behind them and really focus on

6:46

the future mmm-hmm that’s always a possibility – there was

6:53

there was a instance last night and my in my background I’ve been I’ve been

7:00

really interested in the documentary mode of photography and and but I’ve

7:10

kind of strayed away from that I guess in the last few years and in terms of what I do in the studio what I do in the

7:18

darkroom and what ends up being shown to the public but last night at 7 o’clock

7:26

and everybody everybody knows at 7 o’clock you know around the world people

7:33

show their gratitude for you know nurses and doctors and in first responders and

7:41

I think it’s a really lovely common communal gesture but last last night at

7:51

seven o’clock Angus and Laura went out and and Charlie was at the front Charlie

7:56

Brown is my dog and he was at the front door and he was just laying there and I was compelled to and and it was it was

8:04

it was kind of weird and Laura called me on it and after the fact but I grabbed my phone and just started recording the

8:10

dog listening to this noise outside right so it was this chance you know of

8:19

recording this this this moment but also stepping outside of the moment Laura

8:24

came in and she said what are you doing I mean we’re out there making noise it’s like a matter of you know us showing our

8:32

gratitude and appreciation and your swirled away in here with your phone taking a video of the dog right but but

8:41

I said you know right now I totally get that I totally appreciate that and I thought about it and I was like well but

8:47

I’m really compelled to record this moment too and I have this desire to you

8:55

know it’s it’s reimagining – to make documents of this time because it is such a

9:01

unique and strange a moment that we find ourselves in so do you think that

9:08

directly relates to your this in terms

9:14

of like photography like going out and trying to capture those moments but

9:19

trying to kind of set up those moments guide them so that the the kills chance

9:25

opportunities arise that you can take advantage of or is that like a like a

9:32

different kind of coach this is a bit has shifted your approach and that I

9:39

maybe but I it’s probably too early to say it at this point

9:44

I am I’ve thought about the last number

9:49

of projects that I’ve done which are almost anti photojournalistic and a lot

9:56

of them have sprung from or have grown out of an event that is reported upon by

10:04

by the news or you know by the media and I will go to the these you know very

10:12

various different places after the fact or in in a way that isn’t you know it’s

10:20

it’s I’m not I’m not looking to do reportage per se but you know have

10:27

something that is you know it it approaches it from maybe a different

10:33

side or but there is still I mean without question I mean like I’m I’m not really going in and and directing the

10:42

scene other than the fact of me being there and we all know that that of

10:47

course changes any any environment especially when you pull out a camera so I’m aware of you know certainly aware

10:54

and respectful of that that’s that condition that that’s there

11:00

but I don’t know I’m really interested

11:06

to see how things you know how this goes over time and I think we’re we’re in it

11:13

for for a while so you know I do think though that maybe where we’re at you

11:21

know art when when we’re making and I’m

11:26

speaking only for myself here but I’m starting to believe that that the act of

11:32

making art in these times is inherently political and you know is a matter of us

11:40

you know raising raising her hand and saying you know like this I I have

11:46

something to say and I want to see it at this moment so maybe it’s always been

11:51

that way but right now it seems particularly you know poignant that

11:58

certainly seems at the time we live in but I think that art can also be very therapeutic

12:04

you know cathartic even for people who are just kind of stuck at home and they

12:11

just want to do something and they want to feel productive and they just want to feel they just might keep their hands

12:18

busy and it’s not I don’t know I don’t know if that’s it’s political for them

12:24

in a sense but who knows maybe it is what comes out of it just the just the

12:33

act of making being inherently political in that sense and this time I think

12:42

personally it’s a little bit difficult to make right now stuck in a madhouse

12:52

and the idea of making things it just it

12:57

just skips across the surface and there’s no there’s no like not only grab

13:05

onto and I think that what’s interesting about the document whether it be the

13:10

paintings that you brought up at the beginning Rick or Mike because the idea of like just recording time as it’s happening

13:17

they require I think a certain level of action that and trust in yourself the

13:27

and dedication and I don’t know about the therapeutic aspect of this I would

13:34

kind of push against that that I think that it’s it’s more of an action that it

13:43

is therapy I would say but I’m coming at it from a different perspective perhaps

13:48

a little bit different set of circumstances yeah I think for me it’s

13:54

both right because I am fortunate enough to be able to have a studio to go to make work and I speaking a little bit

14:02

from experiences that that in and of itself is therapy that I can actually you know leave the house not kind of

14:09

interact with anybody keep my distance I have a place that I can go away from the

14:16

home that’s really it’s really nice and still engage in that faded out and feel

14:25

productive in that way in a way Pollak on my own terms but of course what I’m

14:33

making it the content is driven by all kinds of things and certainly informed

14:41

by everything that’s going on around us and how people are dealing with it or not dealing with it so yeah it’s not one

14:49

or the other but it can be both I think

14:56

I definitely understand where you’re coming from in terms of the therapeutic aspect of it I mean I find when I zone

15:03

out on my art I have all of this stuff going on in the background of my head right now I’m processing these things

15:10

without actually acknowledging that I’m processing all this stuff that’s going on because I just get in the zone what I

15:15

do understand where subjects going from where you know right now it just feels like it’s so daunting to even try and

15:24

take on certain aspects of our work but

15:29

I mean I’m at a point right now where I’m ready

15:36

to start weaving and I know that I’m gonna start weaving and I’m just gonna zone out and I’ll have just gone through

15:43

all of this stuff that’s going on without even knowing that I’m actually processing it right and I think that

15:50

will be helpful for me to get through that do you have all your materials that

15:56

you can leave for a while there are you worried about that running out of stuff well I actually just finally got to a

16:02

point in a couple of projects where I’m actually ready to start weaving I just

16:07

need to do a couple more surface like procedures on some of them and I’m ready

16:14

to get going and it’s kind of like it’s this is kind of come at an opportune

16:20

time for me where I am actually ready to get hands-on and like be intimate with

16:25

my work in that sense so I think that yeah I will have a lot of weaving that I

16:32

can get I have about 16 medians to get going on and they’re dental floss so it

16:40

should take well I’ve got a dying Mouse

16:46

and a very worried looking mouse I’m on my studio wall has been lying in state

16:53

for 2 or 3 years or so waiting for someone to call yell action perhaps

17:00

perhaps this this event will somehow

17:06

raise that it’s kind of interesting because what I was trying to deal with with it I wasn’t absolutely sure I just

17:13

this kind of someone decayed most was it was going to get animation where you

17:19

know a gallery animation where it just simply took its last breath and now for

17:25

some reason now it seems to have taken on some other kind of importance or

17:31

relevance or something we just where it’s time to to get it going you know

17:40

it’s been lying in state races right now right

17:46

rats are crisis yeah because when people are open about do we create a lot of waste create

17:53

a lot of garbage and dentists that the rats come they just that’s what they live off of and now that we’re we’re not

18:01

out and about as much they are I have heard stories of the resorting to

18:07

cannibalism they’re moving more into residential areas wherever the people are wherever the food is that’s where

18:13

they’re going to be going so that is a story with by time I think yeah he

18:21

doesn’t he doesn’t expire before anything happens

18:34

well that’s huge right now in the classes that’s us that’s a side story

18:39

that is enormous an America in particular the a class thing when you

18:44

look at places like Louisiana beside Florida with both had surgeons but their

18:49

dental in Louisiana which is like a fraction of the population of Florida is

18:55

huge and much more than Florida’s yeah there’s there’s stuff up there for

19:04

somebody to deal with for sure is that where artists come in yeah well it may

19:11

be and yeah the last week we said what are we supposed to do it and I remember

19:17

I mentioned if not if not us then who you know if and you Mike alluded to that

19:23

a bit too I mean it just you know are we going to have to talk about this I mean

19:29

can we ignore it does it have to be literal can it be symbolic but it’s

19:36

gonna be hard not to have it manifest itself somewhere this this mark this

19:41

morning I was oh I went out for an early morning run and I was coming back

19:47

through downtown on my way back home at about six seven o’clock this morning I

19:53

guess it was around seven o’clock and there were construction sites that were

19:58

just opening up and the numbers of you know construction

20:06

workers of you know mostly that I saw anyway is mostly men but of all ages

20:13

from like eighteen to you know in in there’s their sixties late 60s were

20:20

lining up to get into into the job site right and I think that one of the one of

20:26

the things that I mean it needs to be acknowledged and I know that we’re all

20:31

very very aware of this but that there

20:36

is a certain amount of privilege that allows us to be in in our homes and to

20:44

have time to be spending this time with our families or our loved ones

20:51

you know it was just a good sort of good good fortune on my part I eight years

20:57

ago that you know my life kind of for my working life took a detour and then I

21:04

ended up working at the at the college and not as a trades person so you know

21:11

if this pandemic would look completely different to me right now if I hadn’t

21:17

taken that that taking a left instead of a right at that particular juncture so

21:24

you know there there is a privileged and I think that there is a risk with without a responsibility to of of

21:32

acknowledging but then what you know what do we do with our time and and I understand very very well said what

21:39

you’re saying about how you know like I mean life obligations and the

21:45

overwhelmingness of this whole thing makes it difficult but you know I do

21:52

think that there is a you know it’s a responsibility there to that you know we

21:57

hopefully can do something I don’t know I don’t know what that looks like at

22:03

this point right we’re a month in Victoria here or what a month into

22:09

self-isolation so you know we’ll see but I do think that that was just something that I wanted to

22:16

acknowledge at this at the beginning of this you feel compelled to record those

22:25

kinds of things in the same way that you were recording Charlie Brown listening

22:33

to the sounds honoring the health cover

22:38

health care work boots in the front lines not yet

22:45

but I don’t know right like if this goes on for a year or 18 months I have no

22:50

idea we had we all really have no idea what what that would look like right so

22:55

possibly I don’t know I think what’s kind of interesting is the fact that we’re all doing hmm

23:04

individually and then on these these kind of meetings that we have virtually

23:10

or of projecting ourselves into the future and and trying to figure out it’s

23:21

a it’s a bit of a hopeless task trying to figure out what’s coming next and you know worrying for for you know

23:31

your friends and your kids and everybody around you but it at the same time trying to be proactive and make things

23:40

it’s an it’s an interesting move it’s an interesting thing to be in and and to

23:52

try and acknowledge it and and figure out a way to put yourself into it

23:59

actively you know I I don’t know nobody

24:04

knows of course where this is gonna go but at the same time if you sit around waiting for it to go somewhere you’re not gonna do anything and and so I think

24:13

that you know what Rick’s talking about get into the studio and painting or wherever your studio is it takes a for

24:22

me it takes a tremendous amount of effort now when it’s like time has become mushy like

24:27

it’s like it is porridge or something and you’re stuck in it and can why this

24:33

beard is perfect description totally perfect you get up in the morning and

24:40

you’re in the porridge and then you go to sleep at night and you’re like how can I sleep in porridge I work in my

24:48

home office next to my bed there’s no separation between personal work now

24:58

this is like broadcast across whatever the internet whatever that is and and

25:04

and the the as Ricky were saying this kind of it becomes you become insular

25:11

you’re like isolated to your own little unit but at the same time it expands out in ways that you can’t even comprehend

25:19

because every time you feel something you’re like I sneezed in the morning like oh right but I live right outside

25:27

my windows a massive hedge that’s just coming into flower well it’s the season right – yeah and you kind of you can’t

25:36

help but put yourself into this weird soupy physical like liquid time where it

25:44

seems like nothing happens and yet days pass and and how do you

25:51

capture that I personally am wondering if it is possible to do so in a visual

25:58

medium that perhaps maybe a written word in some way is the way to capture this

26:06

durational experience that we’re having that everybody’s having I don’t know

26:13

what do you I mean Rick you’ve been painting a lot I’ve been painting a lot

26:18

I I had a what do you call it a porridge mate yeah I every night is a porridge

26:27

night around I’d like at least three distinct REM cycles I felt like it three nights sleep

26:34

in one one night so that’s like I woke up I like had a bird tripping off my

26:40

window it was yeah like four o’clock in the morning yeah it’s like yeah it was a little bastard you know he’s all the

26:48

time it’s just like so we’re driving them away yeah second I can relate to

26:59

that but that kind of happens to me when I’m painting to you time does weird things you know like it’s get really

27:05

into something and then next thing I know it’s like five or six hours later

27:10

but this is a this is different because it’s a time that’s imposed on us from external circumstances I agree when

27:18

you’re working you can lose yourself in your projects and that’s the ultimate state I think for an artist that may be

27:25

the reason why most of us do things yeah in a situation like this year you have

27:31

an isolation and a thickening and that kind of coagulation of time and space

27:39

beyond your control and it’s very difficult to conceptualize it to make

27:46

sense of it and to act within it for me anyways it maybe it’s the the roles that

27:54

I’m tasked with at the moment wearing a lot it has Mike’s the only one with a

28:05

hat but but yeah you’re right but it and that’s fine right that’s just what it is and that’s

28:12

okay but that I think that the compression of space and time into this kind of thing that it’s hard to define

28:21

makes it difficult to to then partition bits out and to take the time to care

28:28

for yourself for your family for your practice for anything it’s just like this weird time we we often put

28:38

parameters on our own activities regardless though right like mmm as a

28:43

creative you know if you can make anything what do you make where you begin so you start to give yourself

28:49

parameters you know could be a conceptual framework could be whatever so I think maybe the difference is that

28:57

these parameters all of a sudden we have to work within parameters that we don’t necessarily set for ourselves but are

29:02

set for us another criticism creative people I think party as a crisis for

29:09

creative people I think like a massive one really care to see how it affects our students in the fall right if yeah

29:24

we both of us I mean all of us work at or worked at institutions here in

29:31

Victoria and tomorrow would have been our opening for a BFA show in Australia

29:38

and Mike one was commotion supposed to open was yesterday everything you got

29:48

that did you get that question Mike he froze up on his hair sorry sorry about

30:05

that I just got I just got booted but him back look what was your question sent when was the

30:11

commotion opening supposed to be was it last night or tonight to the BFA show or

30:16

their graduate I think it was going to be the last that the students told me is

30:22

that it was going to be tomorrow night so it was something that I was you know I was thinking I have been thinking

30:27

about for a good portion of the day right it’s like I’m at home I’m doing

30:33

paperwork and you know coming up with demos and and doing

30:42

inventories and stuff like that and it’s the least that you know that the the my

30:47

least favorite part of the job by a long stretch especially at this time of year right like I mean should be prepping for

30:55

for year-end exhibitions and dealing with the anxieties and excitements that that our students have at this time and

31:02

it seems just really foreign like I mean this is you know my my eighth year at

31:07

commotion and before that was three or four years up event at this time so it’s

31:13

like it’s kind of engrained in my you know in my spring is it are these these

31:19

annual events so it’s it’s it is really weird to be in that you know it had to

31:26

for us to be in that state of limbo I can only imagine I can’t even imagine I

31:31

truly can’t imagine what it what it feels like for you know a student that

31:37

had these you know these hopes and desires and and ideas of what that that

31:42

event or events similar to that would be like and and they’re just like it it was

31:48

just all of a sudden they they they have operated like it wasn’t even like there was a a chance to for any sort of

31:58

resolve there just like it just became steam yeah right so in the last week

32:08

reached out to a few of the events that I’ve developed like pretty close relationships with over the past few

32:14

years and I know a lot of them are feeling like it didn’t even really end

32:19

it just all sudden petered out and then they were just kind of gone and so there

32:24

wasn’t even like closure which I think Mike is what you were saying right then it’s like their mindset is like they’re

32:31

still at school but they’re not getting any feedback they’re not feeling like

32:38

they really got to go with that bang that they were hoping to you know like

32:44

they’ve worked all year like with Rick and your BFA 4:01 class like they’ve been working their butt off for

32:50

an entire year and then you know those students have also been working there their butts off for years in hopes to be

32:57

in this BFA 401 class because each year they get to go to them and see them and

33:03

for them to just slowly pack their

33:09

things up and maybe they go home maybe they go to an apartment maybe they go to

33:16

a storage unit with their stuff if they were you know lucky enough to be able to get in and and have resources to remove

33:23

some of their art making supplies like yeah a lot of them relies so heavily on our facilities in order to be making and

33:30

and to have that sense of community and so that just was absolutely just taken away from them you know not that it’s

33:37

anyone’s fault that it was but uh I totally understand and I think that

33:43

that’s part of what it’s aster Bates the problem is that that may continue into

33:50

the fall if a lot of them are going to grad school are they going to be starting this all across the country to

33:58

go to grad school I think a build-up like gonna try to be able to do that like are they gonna be able to get jobs

34:04

when they get there so I think that not only is there not any closure for this year and for all

34:13

the work they’ve been doing over the last four years but their futures are

34:19

kind of up in the air also there’s there’s I can see how that’d be really

34:26

disconcerting you know that’s where where do you go from here what do you do well and I was speaking to one of the

34:32

students and he was expressing concern he’s thinking you know what does the landscape look like for an emerging

34:38

artist you know where what are these funding opportunities that were once available where are these the possible

34:45

new funding opportunities can arise from because everyone’s taken such a huge

34:52

financial hit and yeah like what you’re seeing it I mean you can you get a truck

34:58

can you move how do you find an apartment I mean a lot of people do virtual viewings when

35:04

they are moving to another city or province the country but everything is

35:10

just so much harder given a landscaper in yeah and I think part of the

35:17

strangeness of the whole experience has been and this probably is reflected in

35:24

those paintings that you showed Rick in a way as a kind of it’s like a stolen

35:31

time and and an invisible invisible

35:39

culprit I don’t know what the word what the right word would be it’s like

35:45

something happens can’t see it it’s

35:51

always looming like behind your head as you’re saying Hollis it’s you’ve not

35:57

only of you you’re three weeks away from finishing your school you’re a month away from your BFA exhibition that you

36:04

work for years to get to you can’t all of a sudden you can’t afford your

36:10

apartment and your summer job that you had lined up it evaporates exhibition

36:18

spaces have closed and and yet you can’t see it right you can’t see the thing

36:25

that is doing this and it’s like and it’s like this is this thing that lives

36:31

up over here somewhere you know in the corner of the room or outside in your

36:37

neighbors room that is threatening everything that you’ve done and you can’t see it you can’t even like you

36:46

can’t wrap your head around it and I think that that’s part of the the whole doesn’t make this so difficult what do

36:54

you guys think about this isn’t like a kind of massive reset where you know

37:01

because we’re in this moment where it’s complete limbo it’s almost like we’re kind of like back to square one

37:08

that people can create something out of that whatever whatever they wanted

37:14

whatever they needed to make Oh within this void – I don’t know as some

37:23

kind of way to move forward into the future like building it for themselves in that way as a creative but you have

37:32

to thank student perspective we talking about Justin you guys kind of like a

37:41

reset you know I think it would be a big and when Cedric was talking about this

37:47

might go into the fall I might even sevakram somebody mentioned that and you know I saw this film on

37:57

Shakespeare recently and he goes back home after the Globe Theatre burned down and London and he’s living at home kind

38:06

of hiding away and this big some big jet

38:14

landed gentry guy that big somebodies that’s very important in the in the hierarchy of the privileged people of

38:20

Britain comes to miss him he’s like a patron he says you never traveled how

38:25

did you do all this stuff how did you write about Danish kings and how did you write about Romans – you see how did you

38:33

write about these things and you know if it does continue into the fall maybe the

38:39

emphasis now I mean I’m trying to think of what I do if I’m still teaching maybe

38:44

it goes in inside people’s heads more than it has been maybe the external stuff is going to be less available or

38:52

less possible to draw on and and maybe maybe you’re going to have to go into

38:59

into your head and and and maybe the outcome could be a little more

39:04

authenticity from the individual rather than being you know learning how to sing

39:12

with the choir you know they’re contemporary can and and the choir of the Canon or something that you actually

39:17

have to go in here own head and find something and the same with materials it

39:22

might be a pencil and a piece of paper now you can’t go to the lumberyard you can’t go you know to some of these other

39:29

places so I mean I think in the past people have been challenged by the by the limited

39:38

really matured resources and and difficulties and how to actually even acquire the objects and the material you

39:46

might need to use probably I think that I think you Rick you raised a really really good point Charlie Brown my dog

39:54

[Laughter] and I almost put it this way and it’s

40:03

definitely open for debate but I think it’s it’s maybe we’re entering a really interesting time to make art but a

40:12

really horrible time to try to learn about or to try to teach art in an

40:17

institutionalized setting you know be just given these the these distances

40:24

that we have to respect now and studio

40:29

practice is so much about being in the studio together and learning from your learning from your instructors and

40:35

learning from your professors and your technicians and and that around you but

40:41

but also so much of that is about learning from each other right and and

40:47

those late-night conversations that they have around in the darkroom or around an

40:54

easel or in their Studios right so you know like that

41:00

that can’t exist as it’s kind of outlined right now like I imagine we’ll

41:06

eventually get back to that hopefully you know sooner than later but you know

41:12

there is there is definitely some some real barriers and in the way of that

41:19

happening in in the short term or the mid term by but it could be a good you

41:26

know a really fruitful time for people to make work as you say it with you know since sometimes the simplest of of

41:32

materials right by no means am I saying you know drawing is simple but just the

41:38

you know the the pencil and and and the piece of paper maybe that becomes

41:45

really poignant and and you know

41:50

prescient way of making a statement I don’t know it could be after all’s said

41:56

and done we just see all these all this art coming out of the woodwork like

42:02

Paulus coming out with two years of weaving all of a sudden it like an

42:07

explosion of dunt done in a week that

42:13

would be really fascinating just I would be great yeah like hibernating kind of just yeah

42:20

close and making work and it won’t be coming out of our house lots of Lego oh

42:31

that’s it you’re presuming there’s nothing there to bring out oh there’s

42:37

lots to bring out no but we can’t use

42:45

power tools near Livengood I happen do you have we’ve been building power tools

42:52

so we have phrase that are there’s a lot outer then a power tool

42:58

I was thinking a subject matter though what subject matter could come out of the situation that you have right now I

43:05

what if that’s what it is what can come out of that sometimes you’re so close to

43:22

your subject and to your to your to life

43:28

that you can’t take the time to reflect and stop and record the dog you just can

43:38

as they keep coming and getting you

43:43

that’s part of it right it’s kind of a and and I know that we’re really

43:50

privileged to have the jobs and the

43:56

lives that we have especially here in Victoria Mike I’m just blown away by the birds behind you solving if anyone here is

44:03

like listening to this from Winnipeg sorry yeah but not really or leprechaun

44:10

yeah you uh but the thing is though that

44:18

it gets like as I was saying it’s really everything just kind of thickens and coagulates and there’s no room for the

44:24

separation and maybe Mike I could I’m speaking to you more than everybody else

44:31

because we both come out of a photographic background the camera will distance you from your

44:38

subject it like it does right it puts this thing in between you you and your

44:44

subject and that piece of mediation may

44:50

it does that distancing it doesn’t just by being there but at this point that’s

44:58

not even that’s that can come out like even that mediating device can’t come

45:05

out it’s too thick too close and too like a too intimate being being around

45:18

kids they’re trying to figure it out our kids are really great at social

45:24

distancing when someone comes down the hallway and they see them they panic and run back into the house and then they’re

45:31

like we’re doing social distancing and Freya goes and washes our hands for 30 seconds they’re amazing Wow yeah but

45:39

they their entire world is switched in a we air in a month and watch them try and

45:45

figure that out I mean that’s the thing that I get that’s where I I go rather

45:52

than making things I’m just watching things and and trying

45:59

to continue to exist but not recording

46:10

in some ways like the idea of recording it’s to present it they can’t you can’t

46:16

get that remove there’s no space for a remove and that’s why I think maybe

46:22

writing is is where it has to happen because the the duration of writing

46:28

something down forces you to take that that space but also the time that that I

46:37

can’t find anywhere else so I’ve taken to writing at night in the kitchen on

46:44

our cutting board because one of us is

46:49

sleeping in the living room one is in one room and once in another room and there’s nowhere else to go so I I write

46:56

on a cutting board in my kitchen I’ve always gone to sleep you’re doing

47:03

it I mean you use just fantastic as you said you couldn’t do it and now you’re

47:08

telling us that you’re doing it that’s how you doing I’m doing something but it’s not art

47:16

it’s too close right now it’s too close but yes I’m trying to do something yeah well that’s a good point because you

47:23

know the painting we looked at and mom there he is being ravaged by a horrible disease and he’s painting himself and he

47:31

could he could call it porridge he could call it under stuff how can i I’m a

47:37

fever I’m sick how can i how can I make art and it’s not a bad example of that

47:44

somebody actually squeezing something out of a horrible situation where half the people in his neighborhood might be

47:50

dead already or something yeah thanks God we’re not there yet no said you and you I know that both of

48:01

us have a similar background in us in a sense in that we both spent a bit of

48:09

time in Eastern Europe in particular in Prague and he’s you know I I was there

48:16

working on a project of mine for three months and I know that you studied in

48:22

Prague as well and I know that we we know a lot of the are about a lot of the same

48:29

photographers that that that made work

48:35

and in different ways during you know the 60s and into the 70s I’m thinking of

48:42

the two josephs Joseph Joseph Sudak and

48:47

Joseph Cordell car right two completely different bodies of work but it was of

48:55

coca left he fled right and he spent you know the better part of ten years I

49:01

believe in exile and they had this project that I’m referring to is called exile or the exile and he was everywhere

49:10

bought home right and photographed it very much as you’re saying you know that

49:15

the camera was this way of distancing himself from the world that he was seen

49:23

and longing to be back where he where he was from right

49:28

but then you also have Yosef Sudak who spent the better part of ten years in

49:33

his studio in his house photographing through a window on to his garden right

49:41

so two completely different ways of dealing with that notion of isolation

49:48

but using the medium of photography to get to you know way of speaking about

49:57

that right yeah there’s also where the

50:10

The Hunger Wall was built right and I can’t remember what it was in my memory

50:18

is drawing a blank here but what it was it was like one of the first examples of

50:23

a like a make-work kind of project to

50:30

employ the populace after she I can’t

50:36

even remember what it was but it’s one of the first kind of social make-work projects I’m gonna look

50:41

it up on my machine right now but uh yeah right I I’m miss Prague like what

51:02

last time was that wasn’t Hollis in Eastern Europe last summer Romania was a

51:08

Romanian yeah Krisha yeah went to the Venice Biennale and then

51:14

took the boat over to hula and then

51:19

drove down the croatian coast down to the Dubrovnik I wonder how much of working the Biennale the next Biennale

51:26

will be you know about this pandemic yeah I imagine it probably will have

51:34

quite a bit of content relating to that cuz how could how could it not be

51:42

somebody the equations would certainly have something to add to this discussion one day when those I forget which city

51:50

was under siege where the snipers were on the hill they couldn’t even go out for bread or anything and they they

51:56

could literally be shot while they were shopping and and that went on for months and months and months and they would

52:03

certainly have something to share with us about how you live during a time like

52:09

that you know if that would up to them that might seem as big as this in early

52:16

and in an equivalent kind of way it wouldn’t be quite as big because it wasn’t global but the fact that you

52:23

couldn’t move for the danger of dying and did anybody make art they are during

52:28

that time and is there stuff that came out of their photography I’m sure there is and and poetry painting writing to be

52:38

interesting whether they could help us through some of this and yeah I think

52:44

that’s my ideal it was the reasoning behind me bringing

52:49

that point up and those two two examples up is that that time in in and and those

52:58

places were absolutely rich for cultural you know people making cultural

53:07

contributions to society and a lot of it had had to happen underground and and out of sight and

53:14

very finding various ways of trading books around in texts and writing I mean

53:21

writing flourished you know under the the harshest of conditions socially

53:30

right so you know maybe maybe there is a hopeful lining to this to this and in

53:39

that sense and maybe it comes out and you know over time I’m I’m not too sure

53:46

I’m guys have to decide whether we’re fair weather artists or whether we’re you know hope I thought about that you

53:55

know like for me there’s I I’m hesitant to represent the like the the ugly the

54:06

horror that kind of thing I’d rather be

54:12

a force a positive force in the world and focus on more optimistic kind of

54:18

view the more utopian s bovis then the dystopian I’m not saying that there’s

54:24

not a place for that but I think that’s that is like a very real thing that

54:31

we’re going after is are we gonna be making work about you know the death toll or the mismanagement does led to

54:38

higher death tolls or I’ll follow up that happens to those kinds of things or are we gonna be focusing on the

54:46

opportunities for you know like the reset you know creating something new

54:52

for ourselves and in that vacuum

54:57

I think that’s a juror to the reset idea I agree it isn’t it’s it’s it’s a bit of

55:06

an opportunity right now to to reset but the danger of other reset in that case

55:12

is the the the leaving behind of those who can’t keep up and I know there’s

55:20

been a lot of talk about that in relation to like climate issues at this moment and how you know maybe we’re not

55:29

doing so great but the world is benefiting from this certainly in Victoria it’s like that but

55:35

that’s not gonna be the same case around the world and the danger in the in that

55:43

idea is the leaving behind of the people who can’t be in that privileged position

55:49

that Mike was talking about earlier where you’re you know we have a place to

55:55

live in a relatively stable social situation at the moment and who knows

56:03

what’s gonna happen but a lot of people who don’t and even in our own

56:08

communities who are like all of a sudden there’s almost population and there’s

56:13

nobody around and and the danger of a reset or a restructuring of things is

56:21

that those people get left behind those like more more so yeah even more

56:26

so yeah yeah and and well I I want to be

56:33

the optimist like Rick as well and that I think it is a chance for things to be

56:39

to read Jake and to shift like fundamentally shift away from the things

56:45

that you know we’re tired and don’t mean that much to things that are new and do

56:52

mean more and and I think that art can be can do that without like without

56:59

explicitly saying this is what I’m doing it just it just makes things that are unusual on certain vulnerable and

57:09

opening up to ways of being in the world that otherwise wouldn’t be considered and in

57:15

that way I think we’re totally in a position where things could happen that’s my utopian bit for the day I mean

57:30

there’s beauty and truth and and you know if you know Goya’s horrors of war

57:36

and you know it’s historical precedence of you know the raft of the medusa you’re gonna release i never offend when

57:43

I was showing a Jeff walls picture of Dead’s dead troops and saying it was

57:49

like the wrath of Medusa and she looked at it symbol what’s aesthetic about that I’m not seeing it that is that there’s

57:54

no aesthetic because it was blood and half skulls missing and and you know I

58:00

had to we had got this big discussion about you know more truths and other things it also provide a value and their

58:08

thing and there’s beauty and truth even if the appearance the surface appearance

58:13

isn’t beautiful in that aesthetic sense you know there’s there’s other kinds of

58:18

beauty and it goes back to Keats truth is beauty and beauty’s truth and you

58:23

know those kind of quotes and stuff but it’s it you know I think it’s important

58:29

to have both I think if it all went to a way that the darkness was dwelled upon

58:35

by every single artist in the planet we probably all wilt and die but you know

58:41

if it’s if it’s balanced as well by just a richness of you know visual work that

58:47

just lifts you there almost two

58:53

different jobs if there was a job description for them there it would be two different two different jobs but

58:58

both very valid what is the job description of an artist now I’m gonna

59:04

leave that one an answer but I’m

59:13

drinking I don’t want to choke on my wine that’s gone way too deep for this

59:19

thing isn’t it this platform is not intended for that question actually I and asking a question of everybody

59:26

because we are spending so much time in our inner homes looking you know at the

59:35

same walls and you know this the same books and the same the same people but

59:44

in terms of those those times where we do get out how fantastic do they feel

59:51

right yeah like going out for a jog or going out to walk the dog or you know

59:59

maybe not going to out to get groceries because that’s a pretty harrowing experience right now I know for everybody but you know how but even even

1:00:08

like two months ago could we imagine enjoying walking around the block as

1:00:16

much as we do now I thought you were gonna start talking about the four walls

1:00:22

that were inside right now and and what it is we’ve gotta he doesn’t have a wall as well as right there he went outside

1:00:30

yeah some closure yeah no I was gonna I was wondering

1:00:36

where you’re going with that like what are you looking at we could talk about that to you art I don’t know if I can

1:00:43

even look at it anymore there are animals I’m kidding I love the art on my

1:00:50

wall in fact I have a piece right back here that is a painting strangely enough that

1:00:57

I love I showed it to you guys a couple of weeks ago I can I can bring it to the

1:01:04

screen if you want again I’ve never been in your bedroom as a dam as a demonstration if you’d like yeah okay

1:01:18

are we supposed to introduce ourselves now yeah probably my name is Mike Andrew

1:01:27

McClane I am dad a husband a dog owner a

1:01:32

media technology at the local at our local community and visual artist okay I’m Hollis

1:01:40

Roberts I’m the facility and production manager of the visual arts department or at the official arts building at the

1:01:46

University of Victoria I have two cats no dogs and these are some of my friends

1:01:56

I’m Ralph average and I’ve been I taught

1:02:01

art post-secondary for 40 years and I’m retired now and I’m looking

1:02:09

towards being more involved in drawing an animation and like everybody else on

1:02:16

this group wondering what the next year or two will hold for what we’re doing

1:02:24

I’m Cedric Bamford I’m an artist and also happened to be the chair of the

1:02:31

department of Visual Arts at the University of Victoria at moment at my

1:02:36

name is Rick Lyon I’m an artist perdóname a painter I’m our educator at

1:02:43

the University of Victoria and totally

1:02:49

nailed it protege and cédric’s and Hollis’s

1:02:55

colleague and mike’s buddy know this is

1:03:05

a part of gathering in virtual forums like this that is a real shame like you

1:03:38

wake up in the morning and you’re still stuck in the beer hole that’s not good that was my 20s yeah

1:03:46

oh yeah what are you what are you drinking cardboard Oh cardboard oh I

1:03:52

think we might have just seen beer come here Comics nose it’s surely not the

1:04:00

first time you’ve heard that trick that’s ancient that’s as old as some of these paintings we were looking

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