0:07

Tania: And so all of these things sort of culminated

0:10

in wanting to move back home. In my territory and wanting

0:14

to make and really questioning, well,
why can’t I make space for art here?

0:20

You know, in the rural on reserve,
you know, those spaces that’s not New York and Paris, right?

0:25

These ways in which we still locate
like the center of kind of cosmopolitan art.

0:30

And, you know, I have big questions about that.

0:33

What does that mean?

0:34

Who does that leave out
when we kind of adhere to those expectations?

0:38

For me, the Bush Gallery project was as much about being in place
as well as questioning those ideas.

0:45

And so I always thought of that as like,
you can kind of make your own bush gallery space wherever.

0:51

And I didn’t think I was doing anything
totally new, just building on the ways in which you know,

0:56

people still harvest materials and make baskets
and do things that are with the land.

1:01

You know,
if I really think through Secwepemc aesthetics and ideas that I’ve learned

1:06

I realize that the only kind of concept of gallery
would be the land.

1:10

And I’ll just add this, that recently I had a chance
to translate this manifesto we first wrote for Bush Gallery.

1:17

You know, we use a number of kind of art terms and ideas in there.

1:20

And I worked with Elder Flora Sampson, Janice Dick Billy to translate what we wrote into

1:28

Secwepemcstín. So into my language.
And this is the language of the land here.

1:32

And it was really interesting to get around these ideas
and we were translating just the idea of Bush Gallery,

1:38

and it’s an opportunity for me as well
to kind of make space for resurgence in my work.

1:45

You know, we have
to all negotiate space and time and money, right?

1:48

And so I just said this is what I’m going to do.

1:52

This is where I’m going to make space
because these are things that I believe in.

1:56

Chase: Thank you so much.

1:57

And I want to immediately ask you questions
about the Bush manifesto, but I’m going to hold it.

2:01

I’m going to say it out loud and hold it and start with a broader
question and then move toward the more micro questions

2:08

that are animating my thinking,

2:09

since I had the opportunity to read everything
that you’ve offered to us for this conversation, and,

2:15

you know, my question is,
you think out loud about the categories of pedagogy

2:20

and field and land
based practice and art and aesthetics and feminism.

2:25

And I was wondering,
could you tell us in the context of this conversation,

2:30

some of the ways that those terms, categories, modes, of political
being relate to you and your work?

2:36

Yeah.

2:37

Tania: Yeah, well, part of that translating,
I’ll go back to the manifesto quickly,

2:40

because part of translating it was translating the word feminism,
because we write in the manifesto “BUSH gallery is feminist.”

2:47

And, you know,
because I start from this place as a mother as wanting

2:52

to make space,
you know, within the kind of push and pulls of the domestic as well.

2:57

And so I tried to translate this idea of feminism,
which was an interesting one to think about.

3:02

And we came up with “KARHÁ:KON Tió:nakte feminist nen’né:’e” which is kind of like

3:08

like an importance and a strength
and a sacredness for women at Bush Gallery.

3:15

You know, those are just deeply intertwined
for me, the importance of and the space of feminism.

3:21

You know, I’ll say that not without a critique of feminism, right?

3:24

In terms of the ways in which it didn’t in the earlier stages,
kind of make enough space

3:30

for Indigenous, Black, People of Color within those practices.

3:35

But it’s still something
I think is really important that allows us to question

3:39

the kind of impacts of patriarchy and colonialism
within our communities. So.

3:45

Michelle: Well, you took the conversation

3:49

kind of exactly to the place that I think

3:54

my next question would have taken it
because I was going to comment on how much joy

3:59

and hope there is and the way you talk about Bush Gallery
and your relationship to the land.

4:05

But of course, there’s narrative running underneath
about what is happening to the land.

4:11

There’s a huge protest at Fairy Creek

4:15

on Vancouver Island, which is

4:17

sort of really bringing into focus how complex
this situation is around the land, because there are lots of people

4:27

protesting the logging of old growth forests but in so doing,

4:32

they’re questioning the rights of the Indigenous community

4:38

whose territory that growth of trees
is on to make a living from logging those trees.

4:45

So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how you balance
the hopefulness and joy of your relationship to the land

4:54

with all of these things that are threatening your territory
and all Indigenous territories?

5:00

Tania: Yeah, I mean, certainly I always struggle with like not doing enough and then I

5:06

have to go like, OK, but I’m doing something
and there are a lot of people doing nothing.

5:11

So, you know, you have to kind of balance that all out at times
because I don’t feel like I could ever do enough.

5:17

There’s so many pressures and has been since the onset
of settler colonialism. We hear about things in the news

5:23

or hopefully we do about the ongoing Secwepemc protest
against the Canada owned TMX pipeline.

5:30

And those are really serious
and I contribute in ways that I can to those.

5:35

But I also want to acknowledge
all the people that are doing the really difficult front line work

5:39

and that I think at times we only can do in bursts
because it’s really challenging work.

5:44

So, you know, their work on front lines as warriors is so important,
but they need people behind that to support,

5:52

you know, so fundraisers like building economies locally,
speaking out.

5:57

Those are all things I hope that I’m contributing to,
as well as language resurgence and knowing the land and practicing

6:04

harvest and stuff on the land, those are subtler, more ongoing ways,
completely subversive activities because if you read through like,

6:12

Secwepemc histories that’s what we’ve been fighting for, for 150 years, is being fenced out of our territories.

6:18

And that fight comes from our love and the joy that brings. Right?

6:24

And so I think the only way I can kind of be sustained in
some of that work is to have those experiences.

6:30

You know, I also think about futurity in that
even though this is a small piece of land

6:36

that is impacted,
it is and can be a future and is and can be abundance.

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