0:00

I just have a little introduction just to kind of give a sense of why we are

0:05

hosting this this community conversation so it’s called let’s talk water and so

0:11

we’re hoping for this kind of informal gathering of people to discuss issues related to the topic of water we have

0:19

some invited guests but we’ve also invited a general public to take part and have a seat and around the circle

0:26

and I want to also it’s obvious but this

0:31

is being recorded too this is part of a larger project that we’re working on with artist Marion

0:37

Nicholson so it’s a pre program for an ongoing project that will happen and kind of unfold over the next few years

0:44

called why we allow the pervasiveness of water or cannot go against the tide

0:49

we’re still we’re still talking and thinking about the title and the ideas

0:55

so I also wanted to give a bit of an introduction about the importance of

1:00

this site and the physical place were on today so we are on the traditional territory of the Lacroix and speaking

1:07

people which include the song he’s and explain what First Nations and this area here and this stretches through around

1:13

the harbor by the Empress and local anglers known as Jose come I hope I’m saying that right or a muddy place which

1:20

used to be tidal flats so where the Empress now sits where tidal flats that provided a range of resources for this

1:27

formal and so on Heaney’s versa nations and and the the harbor itself is also historically significant and complex

1:34

site in terms of the shared history between the First Nations and non First Nations in this area so I just want to

1:40

extend our gratitude as visitors on this territory to hold this conversation here about this really kind of important and

1:47

crucial topic that reaches into so many aspects of our lives as we’ve been frosting over the last few days so we

1:53

need have been things it all the time comes around to connections to water and it’s just such a I mean that that in the

1:59

title of what we’re working on the pervasiveness of water it kind of reaches so many aspects of our lives so when I’ll just go through the invited

2:06

speakers we have today so we have Mary Ann Nicholson Victoria based artists of Scottish and thank you very much First

2:21

Nations defense I really had go to practice I’m so sorry and artists Lucia Cavallo

2:27

who has been our artisan residence for the past month this June she’s based in Berlin right now but she’s of Tongan and

2:33

European descent and her work is currently a part of the exhibition at

2:39

the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria trans-pacific transmissions video art across the Pacific curated by a curator

2:44

hey masiva Nathan I’m so great opportunity to see her work as well we

2:49

have Maddie leach who is actually working on a project with the Contemporary Art Gallery in Vancouver and came over for the day to join us and

2:56

she’s also has worked on projects that relate to water as well and Terre Haute

3:03

is currently our odain aboriginal curatorial fellow at our tyler units so this conversation will start by looking

3:10

at how artists use their practice to highlight ideas and issues that relate to the pervasive and expansive topic

3:15

that is water but also to extend that to to all of you what issues are relevant

3:20

to you and in the light of this DIY kind of idea concept hot water solutions like

3:26

how do we overcome these things or what’s what are the possibilities to these to these issues and to these

3:33

hurdles so first I’ll turn it over to Mary Ann we’ll just get a brief introduction from the artist about their practice and how how they think about

3:39

water and really some of the work they’ve done so if you man where it comes from our village is situated by

4:09

it was really fundamental basic aliy our

4:28

whole existence was tied into the life of the river itself and so I grew up

4:33

with this like passion for this thing people think of it as a thing but it was

4:39

a living thing and it really shaped how I relate to

4:45

kind of I guess we would call it the natural world and so this relationship

4:51

though I found was really polar to the relationship it’s to water that I was

4:59

learning about say in university or as I I realized that the in off times that

5:07

relationship to the river was very objectified and that our river systems

5:14

were being kind of perceived up in a way that was foreign to me and that was kind

5:19

of as a source of power particularly hydro electric power so I ended up I

5:28

guess a few years ago I created a piece while I was a foot I was approached to

5:36

put in a proposal to do a piece for that thank you airport and I thought well I would like to do something that’s

5:42

political in its position and I want to address the issue of water because they

5:48

had a theme that they wanted people to address and that was they basically said we want you to address the history of

5:56

the freezer toxic resistance and so

6:02

I looked at I had been looking already at the history of the Columbia in the Fraser and one of the things that really

6:08

bothered me about the Columbia was that it had been down 14 times on its main line within a 50 year

6:16

and I guess Canada can kind of somewhat pad itself it’s about somewhat in that Fraser had

6:24

not been damn doughnuts man but at the same time I was so concerned about the mentality that would create

6:31

that situation where that Columbia would be damaged that many times on its main line within such a small tab and one of

6:40

the really significant impacts of that damming was in 1957 especially not long ago actually 1957 when they built the

6:48

second dam up from the mouth of the river of the Columbia there was a place called Celilo Falls there and that was

6:55

the longest continuously inhabited site in North America and when they down that

7:01

site when they built that down it flooded so uh applause and the reason why it was so so significant in in terms

7:10

of its indigenous estream is that it was such a rich so indigenous people

7:18

this place was covered in pictographs and when they flooded that place those

7:23

pictographs then went and so this was the basis of the way was created for my ps4 there so the

7:32

images on I’ve had shown these two blasts cones

7:37

and they’re basically vertical rivers and one of them represents the Fraser the other one represents the Columbia

7:45

and they give an epigraphic imagery this history so and I was really critical I

7:55

should be really honest it was really critical it’s kind of like capitalist

8:00

extreme resource exploitive relationship and I thought about my own and as these

8:12

artworks were going out I ended up in a conflict with the institution because I

8:19

put a text and that text was reflected

8:24

her it was critical of this capitalist philosophy and but what was happening

8:30

was that as their port was going on I realized that the context where the work itself was actually deeply embedded in

8:36

these capitalist philosophies and in fact was a very expensive model and so I

8:41

felt compelled as an artist and I thought well I’ve been hired to create the best artwork that I can possibly

8:46

play and so I put a text along the bottom and it created a

8:52

conflicts with me in the institution I was requested to remain here text

8:57

I removed the text and now there is a pattern of dog that exists so it’s just

9:09

very interesting the process of thinking

9:15

through these things creating a work around it and then actually putting up against the various systems that I was

9:21

trying to critically address and that’s just kind of the little brief synopsis

9:26

of the work that you made saying with

9:32

the text it said it was from the Bible and for

9:44

what does it serve to gain the world on

10:16

that basis I did but I also had thought

10:22

that it was so important as I saw the work growing up because I thought I felt

10:28

that the text itself adjusts the fundamental issues that were important in the words and and that

12:09

[Music]

12:50

[Music]

12:58

so we’ll set for me with the flows in

13:05

and how I managed that approached it is

13:12

different maybe in different so that’s mainly the

13:21

Rockies an exploration of these moments in between the boat right essentially is

13:34

taking supplies from the mainland main

13:39

island and further New Zealand Australia and getting them to their smaller places so it was about our trip with these

13:47

provision with these people taking conditionals

13:55

remember

14:01

so maybe it might even tell us a bit about your practice and specifically the workbench so I thought that in this

14:10

context the work that I would talk about was a project I did last year I was

14:18

invited to be in the Jakarta Vietnam and

14:24

one of the thematic Swabian Ali was

14:33

issues basic access and I had sort of a

14:48

long narrative the project but I was also very interested in the fact that

14:55

Indonesia is this you know substantial producer of pulp and paper products and

15:02

so there are corporations producing paper for the

15:10

local industry and using and I used a

15:17

very I guess a simple equation

15:43

[Music]

15:48

[Music]

16:15

and the teller who has this spring coming from underground aquifers and it

16:22

is the most beautiful sight and extremely pure and the town supply for

16:31

this little Township is off off this blue spring and coca-cola and all the

16:37

other the other water bottles and that Township way sort of market the idea

16:42

that you know the water you’re drinking comes straight from the source of this

16:47

but essentially they’re just using the town supply same thing so they baked

16:54

apple they kept up the town supply fill up folders of water sell it to New

17:01

Zealanders you know there’s a really complex water bubbling issue to draw off

17:16

billions of litres but anyway so I I

17:23

wanted to work with water bottling companies and see you know if I would you can I ended up working with local

17:39

government and they said sure and they actually got me closer to the spring

17:45

than any of the water bottling companies and we went out and back to the you to

17:50

put these barrels filled up three hundred and twenty five liters and then I worked with a shipping

17:57

company had this really great name called divine and a distance which I’m hopeful that we will ship the water now

18:05

with ownership and went through New Zealand clearance you know relatively easily and I paid this hundred dollars

18:13

for something to ship it and then my plan was it would come to Indonesia and

18:20

I wanted to exchange this water with Asia Pulp & Paper enormous paper

18:26

manufacturing one of their mills and say can I actually give you this spring this beautiful water and you can tip it into

18:33

your processes and then would you give me the amount of paper you know that it would contribute to producing an ancient

18:41

poplar I tried to pursue through various means you know and again of course they’re extremely extremely difficult to

18:49

get any access point so knowing that you know and we sort of

19:04

persisted and I see the water and was

19:10

assured that it would get clearance in Jakarta and it did arrive in Jakarta and then while the Biennale was been set up

19:18

I was waiting for then what transpired was extremely complex bureaucracy around

19:25

Indonesian customs officials and the

19:31

clearest surface but it would have been fine if it had been in waterfalls but it

19:36

needs to big blue barrels it became this sort of suspect object that no one

19:43

really knew how to deal with and there was all then this sort of a pile of communications

19:52

payment and then New Zealand demons was involved as well

19:59

for this quarter so at least become to be a noun

20:08

we complex around millions of rupiah that would be paid over the table and

20:14

then openly discussed about millions of rupiah that were paid under the table to

20:19

various people it was became as midday

20:25

for everybody and what I mean what I was doing all along right from me and I got

20:31

the invitation to but the analogy was keeping every piece of communication and

20:37

paper so I had about I think about a bit over four hundred email messages around

20:44

this process and I printed those on one killer and that was really the document

20:54

that became because I had this headless space in the corner of giant warehouse

21:00

and everyone had their artworks around I had this way and then they you know and

21:08

I never by the end of the Biennale there were there were stools in other all

21:13

sorts of promises and dreamy and curious and very interesting I thought approach was working with the

21:20

Indonesian people I was working with about how things get through we were

21:29

never really sure how much money we paid in the end and then and then the New

21:35

Zealand embassy got when that this under the table payment had been made with New Zealand government money and and so this

21:43

has become the point where they are in the last piece of communication was they were in a warehouse I saw a bad cell

21:51

phone photo of them sitting there now they think they would have been either

21:59

had to sort of me and they had this opportunity to some ways they become like a body that could be deported

22:07

returned to New Zealand or destroyed you know and I think you know and it said at

22:13

that point for some time I achieved its heaven deported back to using and to see

22:18

what would be what would heaven go against New Zealand water coming back

22:24

but they lost the last in gone and they’ve become part of the disappeared

22:29

in Jakarta so the project actually I think at the moment will I’m hoping to

22:37

make a book publication around

22:42

it’s a net you know it becomes a narrative but I was I was really interested in this you know the

22:50

resistance I guess that that a physical objects like their faces in it it was

22:57

you know it gets up with so much it’s better quality water than perhaps in many places or anywhere in Asia but

23:05

it was unable to be categorized

23:16

it seems like in a way each of your projects do have some aspect to the best

23:23

your experience working on them is a layer that maybe we don’t experience in

23:29

the work but becomes part of it I guess you know we were talking

23:35

yesterday about artists and and risk right so because you are all entering

23:43

into this realm of activism where you’re trying to highlight issues that might be

23:48

contentious and might be controversial and shedding light on them which filled

23:55

the role of the artist is in terms of taking on risk and your role in terms of bringing these these ideas or these

24:02

concerns forward how do you see your place in that and how important is that idea of taking risk in the process I

24:13

think I’m really interested in the project is always vulnerable you know in

24:21

it and it and I like to think the way that I like to work is that you kind of have a conceptual you know look you have

24:29

this logic and the idea that you just pursue the logic and there’s intervening

24:35

forces going to going to work on them and how far you can actually test

24:40

something and intervene in people’s time you know it’s been a really interesting

24:46

aspect of that for me so that the community kind of is gathered around an

24:51

object you know as it tends to to traverse something but often you know

24:57

and you have to be I have to be content with what people see it’s fate you know

25:04

the non arrival of some yeah I know but then that’s actually but I think risk

25:11

Fermi’s is really

25:21

that puts this is also revealing this

25:28

notion that sort of value you know are you an activist you know and I think it’s because I’m always interests in

25:34

that position where people can’t be quite sure you know which i think is really interesting about your text on

25:40

network because it’s people kind of out-and-out go this is an outrage you

25:46

know that you want to put this or you’re trying to do this or you know you’re working Greenpeace you know that it’s

25:54

sitting on that line of where it’s not possible like they perceive a politician

26:00

at work but it’s not you know and I get these quick you know going that should should want to clear that but it’s

26:06

actually a teacher to navigate these bureaucratic capitalists processes to

26:13

get something through them so the ambiguity becomes really important to the fruits yeah

26:23

also just in terms of the Publix in which your work circulates your work

26:33

Lucy is in the gallery and you were telling me before about introducing some

26:39

of the docents to the work and how they reacted to the silence and the word gear

26:46

film is silent and so there the way that the narrative is built around this is is

26:53

different incredibly public space where people are

27:01

traversing through it you know fairly quickly on their way out of the airport

27:08

and so thinking about how those forms of encounters who are are are very

27:15

different and then how that work that presses upon the

27:20

public either sort of just as they’re going by in the space or as they’re trying to interpret it for themselves in

27:28

terms of your work so they figure out how they will then represent that work

27:38

and it’s really fascinating to me that the structures because they I found like

27:43

especially within indigenous negotiations around that there’s an

27:48

assumption of a structure in place that we are continually betting we have our understanding that under is

28:11

for me a lot of I guess authority behind

28:29

[Music]

28:53

without balancing that notion with all the other systems that are connected and

28:59

so that is fascinated with your project

29:05

because it really exposes how humans create these systems and how we are

29:11

almost agreed to accept that those

29:17

systems yeah and contributes linen and allow them to exist without questioning them

29:23

or even becoming similar lines in fact that they are system

29:31

play with you on trinkets well and you

30:02

delays another project where I found

30:24

myself attempting to put this block of concrete into the ocean but I found I was talking to its these five young oil

30:32

executives from Australian worldwide exploration is board table and telling

30:37

them this this is the story of something that what could have been whale oil it wasn’t a good tension to concrete and

30:43

then and they all set I mean they gave me an hour of their time and then so we

30:49

know we can’t really how

30:56

[Music] anyway that you weigh that it’s a way of

31:13

kind of situating yourself to a place or

31:18

two systems I think I think a lot about

31:26

that curating about situating the place

31:33

that the exhibit is happening to a larger context or you know I grew up in

31:41

a funny relationship too

31:54

but water systems that or in Vancouver

32:00

provide a lot of find a lot of knowledge about how to situate yourself so last

32:08

year I was having a conversation with a woman from Musqueam which is one of the first nations in Vancouver

32:14

she was explaining to me the word for future River in the Camino which oh well

32:22

I don’t know it’s pronounced something like Scala which just means River but

32:28

then the hunka mean ohm word for bus for bus uses that root word of stalo

32:36

but it just means big navigating their

32:49

place you know that place through navigation through the symbol of the commune and

32:56

the historical you know relationship that they have to that I just thought that was such a great way of thinking

33:02

about the the way that the you know the urban landscape its navigated in some

33:09

ways to do this so and just in terms of

33:15

how each of you are coming to a knowledge of a place your relationship to water whether it’s

33:21

this sort of bureaucratic process that you went through [Music]

33:31

[Music]

33:38

place and then go back

33:47

geography as well face dry

34:03

so how did you think about like visually creating the psychogeography and the

34:09

different sort of to offensive end but I guess I was always it was always an

34:15

observation of putting myself in a position where I just and I knew that

34:24

all sorts of things with happen but being accepted to

34:31

and to be aware that visually video just

34:43

so I could see it and so I could the

34:58

daily routine of every honest

35:03

we also have two two views in the video so you kind of gain this doubled

35:11

perspective but so the narrative is kind of it’s a little bit more interval bed

35:17

and so the way that you experience time and your work is really interesting to and to disrupt

35:25

the logic

35:30

[Applause]

35:38

I want everyone else to feel that shifting perspectives are being changed

35:44

the unknown the end user ominous nature that at some points

35:52

me being an observer

36:02

and there’s no entry or exit

36:07

this great kind of power that arrived at any point

36:16

connection to it or snap at them

36:25

I found it interesting that people read your workers kind of way I did said that

37:37

so that was really interesting and I’ve never seen that because I have

37:47

relationship

37:56

when they see these it’s not on my radar

38:08

I notice the experience in the space is like the roar of the motor is quite an

38:13

experience in Marianne’s reaction

38:25

physical environment when you’re going through that and this is you know as an artist when

38:32

you’re creating work there’s you know as I was alluding to before there’s this whole personal experience that happens

38:37

leading up but then how its received at the other end I think that’s kind of how

38:51

I mean I know for some artists letting go and having that you know go with all

38:57

these other directions for some artists

39:02

that’s really challenging and for some they’re really good especially one where

39:11

there is just you know the story there

39:28

come on you work you work public we’re public art work so much you know how

39:43

that work too might be read by a non educated international audience where

39:49

it’s also being placed among all these other representations of indigeneity would

40:06

and the work itself even though like that I think the difficulty in creating

40:13

that piece was to create a piece that somewhat disrupt but not do it in such a

40:20

way that the piece would be made so it had to fit to some extent there you know

40:32

like and it was very very

40:41

and I asked as to what happened and when I was given my three minutes to give a

40:47

speech without in the world within all this corporate speech I specifically

40:55

congratulate but that now was the time

41:03

to start to listen to and so for me that piece when I look at

41:11

that in comparison to the rest of my purchase it does not appear

41:17

moreover due to sensation but within that specific extremely

41:24

because it was that I could push the boundaries of the other because I

41:36

thought we knew okay if I

42:24

[Music] obviously knowledge is gained

43:03

because I can advocate through different

43:19

ways and that’s what’s really intriguing about our works is that they have in extension and they with existing

43:25

contacts so you

43:32

it provides a puck

43:40

[Music]

43:58

so I really you know some of the

44:25

umbrellas with women Lafitte this larger project is look at water water is

44:34

resource water is a sign of trade and exchange and water

44:40

climate change and well there’s a lot of overlap with that is also allowed I

44:46

think a key part of this is that we didn’t want to limit at the outset you

44:52

know we didn’t want to pay too much of a framework that would limit ideas from

44:58

coming in so underneath each of those things could have implies so many so

45:03

many props to talk about this so thinking about those the implications

45:18

also connect to how people live in that space you know how

45:27

just water being restricted how that impacts where we are in the place we’re

45:32

in water because that kind of implies hi

45:51

wait

46:14

[Music]

46:36

introduce how that because being in

46:47

these faces how do I represent

47:13

[Music]

47:23

yeah it’s hot I don’t have

47:31

[Music]

47:39

[Music]

47:46

[Music]

47:55

[Music]

48:16

[Music]

48:33

situation amusing no I think this is the

48:39

realizing there is

48:50

regulated situation another you know by

49:21

comparison you know the dairy industry museum began this amount of milk and so

49:31

New Zealanders sort of suddenly water

49:41

reserves

49:53

[Music]

50:02

[Music]

50:29

realizing very quickly stream

50:45

[Music] conversation around it was interesting

51:08

for me because I moved from Australia to Canada at a point minestrone had been in

51:13

a very long like 15 years of drought and what it was like he paid for it he

51:20

couldn’t – so many water restrictions and it’s just incredible

51:39

then actually the interesting here is how the activism also becomes of form

51:44

making all of the work she comes in her medical situation

51:59

I’m sure I was thinking about you know thinking of water as a resource

52:06

in another sense not something that is

52:11

sold for profit but as a resource

52:28

and I organized a walk around an exhibition that I curated sites and the

52:39

walk was led from the Squamish nation

52:45

among others but as ethno botanist and has this knowledge of indigenous plants

52:50

and the medicines and the traditional uses of them and then out of gold who as

52:58

a young man that was really involved with the pipeline protests around when

53:03

Kinder Morgan was doing they were drilling 4 holes into Burnaby Mountain

53:09

to do testing that’s the site where they were planning to are still planning to

53:15

twin the pipeline and it’s a conservation area so there was a lot of control from the community about this

53:22

and so the two of them took us this group on a walk together down from the

53:29

top of the mountain where the Galleria sited it’s one of the sites where they had this bore girl in every few minutes

53:36

and it was just – it was just maybe a month ago and have like there’s so many berries

53:43

and every few minutes each would stop and just pull another planet that was at the side of the road that you would just

53:50

you know if you didn’t know you would just walk by it and I would tell us about all of these differences its

54:08

borgin eyes and this was a way this was

54:13

kind of a way to situate the work that was happening within an exhibition that was encountered in this very specific

54:19

space in the larger context of the site of the mountain and all of the work

54:25

that’s happened there which is you know was the conversation when his base traveled around the land there but the

54:31

water is just is just beyond and it’s affected because it’s all connected so

54:39

it was a really powerful way I felt to bring those conversations together you

54:45

know that we were talking a little bit about what at lunch yesterday about how

54:51

we need to bring people together in conversation that aren’t necessarily just those people that support

55:14

[Music]

55:29

the scientist the conversation to reach

55:47

everyone but it does have opportunity

55:56

but in the same way if we expand the people we bring into the conversation then that can be otherwise sometimes in

56:07

doing that opportunity you know when you are working scientists still people who

56:12

a place you know there is a like you

56:20

know when you’re dealing with you’re dealing with it’s actually hunting somehow that’s

56:28

rude conversation to go because I think you can have those you can have these cross-disciplinary conversations that

56:35

have supportiveness towards each other though they have done they have differences but to me it’s really maybe

56:42

the urgency is to go actually you need to sit at the board table I

56:57

doubt I get this frustration sometimes at work we’re kind of doing things that you know aren’t kinda moving up to that

57:04

level then sexy and that would be the optimal you actually start your big

57:11

other civilizations this I do with the company how to be at those things

57:18

interesting Mary Ann’s experience with the airport in your experience with the oil companies really want to know in that

57:33

moment that an artwork like you did this idea I mean even the fact that you know

57:41

where people have to sit there goes you know they’re thinking about text you know been thinking about their

57:49

resistance to and they’re kind of at the point that we’ve made something

57:57

it also challenged artists people in that research really and this is this

58:04

capability to really be rounded what you are trying to say I know your facts and

58:12

you understand you’re saying cuz you are challenging these bigger entities and they may come back and you have those

58:18

confrontations or those conversations where you’re not speaking to the converted it’s not just a big love and

58:23

yes this is what we need to be doing you do that that wall and when you do if you’re not grounded

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you know you get pulled over so that that’s an important challenge too because I think maybe if we are only

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speaking to the converted doesn’t

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[Music]

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complacency what kind of rhetoric we need this thing and it’s really part of

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an aesthetic both works that are actually challenging

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some of those trying to move the ways we think about a public situation or a

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site-specific situation I find those

59:15

spaces they mean they’re so difficult but in some ways they’re really by yeah

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and the kids vitalization so in the case of the walk we were it was definitely not a conversational yes

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but it was a revisiting of a space that hasn’t been active for quite some time

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and has walked off that yeah that’s a

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tent that’s planted trees in the path that you supposed to try to navigate so

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we were you know there’s there was maybe

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a gentler form of vegetation and remembrance but then I mean the way that

1:00:06

your work was circulating in the process of its making and what it would not even

1:00:14

necessarily it’s it’s not necessarily being recognized as an artwork it’s

1:00:20

traversing heads a different type of object entirely it’s one thing that I wanted to ask you about

1:00:26

was when you were trying to bring it into the country for you labeling it in

1:00:32

any specific way as an artwork to try to maybe help yeah yeah and I don’t we’ve

1:00:37

seem it’s a really interesting point of what is what is the label of an art what kind of message does it give some things

1:00:46

it was clear that it was going to Jakarta P and Knowledge Foundation and

1:00:51

you know but I think it may have to have

1:00:59

just a very you know practical description [Music]

1:01:07

I wouldn’t yeah I think that I do then

1:01:12

what the word artwork does to confuse things I mean the risk I think is that’s

1:01:22

what I’m saying the risk is that you then you risk of this kind of invisibility or else we’re artists we

1:01:28

just go back into this you know we would you know this notion of being activists

1:01:33

and trying to work with these businesses or corporations who are just going to go into something that’s you know that’s

1:01:50

the risk I think is it that there would be closure interesting

1:02:04

use these opportunities as a platform and you don’t compromise your integrity

1:02:09

when you go into that process but you also feel a big sense of responsibility to your community and so it is you’re

1:02:18

entering the keys to this realm of negotiation and really challenging and again no and this is the thing you you

1:02:25

know where you stand on things you don’t waver and so when you go into that u-turn you know how far you’re willing

1:02:33

to go and but it’s you’re constantly having to reassess that and challenge yourself and that kind of self I know

1:02:46

how far you’re willing to go and that’s you know that that idea of risk again like how how much I mean I think artists

1:02:54

in general what there’s what you doing with practices you’re putting yourself out there there’s you know you’re risking your ideas your thoughts you’re

1:03:01

putting those out there to be taken in talked about and considered by people and losers there

1:03:08

just add risk in that act but when you’re when you’re taking these topics that challenge corporations challenge

1:03:15

dominant ideology you know there’s a huge responsibility

1:03:23

and knowing where you sit

1:03:33

[Music]

1:03:41

[Music]

1:04:39

so [Applause]

1:05:05

I go in and out storage sometimes oh I

1:05:18

wouldn’t when you think about responsibility always how do

1:05:57

you find anything how such a big

1:06:13

I don’t know how person me too

1:06:22

a little bit more progress can be made

1:06:30

and to get into this position

1:06:38

Patera frame this is because there’s this little privatization of what is the

1:06:49

relationship and so that struggle is going to become extreme

1:07:04

industry and then NBC were looking at the same issues

1:07:11

and that’s a really great name and I I really I guess this notion of the

1:07:18

Commons what is it in the best interest of Hawaii over this notion of

1:07:25

privatization in an individualized issue of Rights and that’s what we’re really framing

1:07:33

except a platform for negotiations is a privatization

1:07:43

it’s gonna get it’s gonna get crazy and it’s actually you can happening in terms

1:07:49

of psi but maybe you’re speaking about we’re actually wondering is oddest like

1:08:03

this ways you can work that are kind of trying to fun up against this sister before there are ways which you can work

1:08:10

kind of try to diss song I think there’s

1:08:16

something important about being able to

1:08:24

love thinking about what you said about being sort of stewardship I think I

1:08:33

increasingly recognize and I’d say maybe there’s a great deal this catalytic

1:08:39

relationship I think you know where project starts and it doesn’t it

1:08:47

certainly means in this idea of the conversations continue here sorry I find

1:08:54

every time I describe I think I now know and understand I’m

1:09:16

gonna mix with them any visitor Granite Quarry and I know that you know and

1:09:23

they’re like why do you want company and do I start this person I love you know actually at the border the other day

1:09:28

when I came into Canada I was like the border dad was such a way you hear I’m

1:09:34

researching a project Ellery what do you know what are you researching makes it all you know aspects brownson around the

1:09:42

Fraser River and the monument taking the

1:09:53

opportunity to go take ten minutes you know and use that it’s this idea that

1:10:00

every conversation I mean that’s a good

1:10:05

diet logic with those things you’re aware that you

1:10:10

know cuz it’s like where is yeah that’s

1:10:16

why I think you know these ideas of hearing about this story of thing that it’s missing

1:10:39

before in that context in Indonesia was also very important for me to recognize this I was I was literally completely at

1:10:46

sea and then contact context I was doubted places waging operate and not

1:11:04

under the nose and said we’ll come with long conversations click with people speaking only in the posture and then

1:11:11

loving the situation of suddenly it was fine you know and actually have to up

1:11:25

they have you got yeah it’s like why we’re here I think things

1:11:37

[Music] just before you we’re talking and

1:11:42

that question is I think stewardship and ambulance and then you turn to serviced alarming yeah so they were dissolving

1:11:50

here that’s actually I knew they were

1:12:01

you telling me things that they thank you what I wanted to you and they’re having me there they involve themselves

1:12:07

in this shaggy-dog story it’s not you going it’s making me think about in the

1:12:17

Canadian context so percent water is it

1:12:41

needs to be around ideas of connections with water

1:12:47

and capital resource extraction

1:13:06

[Music]

1:13:41

to make those conversations reach the people who can actually shift things

1:13:51

people who are thinking to creative processes there’s no shortage of possible solution

1:13:59

[Music]

1:14:08

[Music]

1:14:30

[Music]

1:14:44

those relationships there has to be a

1:14:54

because the other thing that has come up was we’re talking to these ideas is agendas you know people have an agenda

1:15:00

that they want to see move forward and how can what you know okay so I’ll jump

1:15:06

onto that but how does it benefit me and that idea of working and thinking about us we as opposed to me kind of

1:15:15

perspectives what can you gain we’re gonna you know what get out of this

1:15:25

I don’t know how I don’t know the answer to how we shift that way of thinking but

1:15:31

if maybe if we’re approaching it in a way where it’s a matter of building and as language allows us to and that may

1:15:42

not be willful from both sides right so that’s the challenge if it’s not if that doesn’t get opened up if there isn’t available kind of share conversation or

1:15:50

invitation then left like oh how do we

1:15:56

get ourselves out those tables and

1:16:07

oops dip in the ground because we were with indigenous people have been brought

1:16:12

to the table to negotiate and

1:16:18

but industry and government have the power to set the agenda and they say you can only come in and make these certain

1:16:26

types of adjustments and none of them are fundamental and so I really believe in outreach to the grassroots

1:16:35

who would then force and fight for and of course fundamental change

1:16:44

that’s a but if you look at something

1:16:52

you know like the very fact that the NDP actually allowed this thing called the

1:16:58

leap manifesto into their conference like that’s interesting about

1:17:04

even though it was like highly criticized at the same time they’re contained

1:17:11

within that document a real change and people say oh that’s a lot of this type

1:17:16

of thinking is very a night but realistically

1:17:22

we’ve sat a bit students but people the

1:17:28

people in power with power and privilege are not going to give up religion without a strong push from the

1:17:35

grassroots and so when I’m tamping through my artwork I’m really thinking about the everyday person has an

1:17:42

audience articulate that through

1:17:55

[Music] we can do made administrative you don’t

1:18:00

have any thoughts they’re still kind of wanting to share on that or we can wind

1:18:06

down the conversation we have a community

1:18:24

[Music] I wish I was here for all of them I keep

1:18:36

coming back to that decision by yvr to take away the text so I when I was with

1:18:49

my daughter and her friend I’m doing other things I’m coming back I still think about and think about your like

1:18:58

they on some level it’s okay and that

1:19:03

you were able to do that still it still wasn’t like embedded in that

1:19:10

even if you love them there and I kind of want to go there and like

1:19:17

sort of see it and like see the bad texture yeah another and no but just when you

1:19:24

were speaking at the end there about the creating work for people rather than

1:19:32

that sort of tradition to power that grassroots impact I don’t have anything

1:19:44

articulate but I yeah I appreciate this conference conversation about water and

1:19:52

also the different approaches realizing

1:20:03

in separating the house from furthering

1:20:13

cap that’s all really a really really important conversation articulate the

1:20:21

different approach in terms of stewardship it’s about I think stewarding opportunities for

1:20:31

seller people see things in a different

1:20:40

thing Cubao to be good visitors

1:21:23

[Music]

1:21:28

[Music]

1:21:45

[Music]

1:21:59

they invited you right yeah yeah that’s

1:22:06

a wide why did what was their reason for everything curious more than anything else but

1:22:13

they’d also been a history of discussion I don’t know I think there’s a lot that

1:22:21

we speculation oh yeah at the end of the day you do like

1:22:27

sitting around the

1:22:32

[Applause] where you just know that you planted some seed of something and you can’t

1:22:40

really know what that is but they’re probably gonna go

1:22:45

[Music] and it will be popular right I mean this

1:22:52

the other thing is I think that any sort of shift or change or like awakening or

1:22:58

awareness that has that can come around we have to be patient because if we rush

1:23:05

things really wanted to be your appointment for the solution to rabbit know that there

1:23:10

would be a negative impact so you pulled back the bangs this is where I’ll stop this is as far as I’ll push and I’ll stop here and and

1:23:17

next time I can get two or three more people and when you were able to give your talk you were able to say what you

1:23:22

needed to say and so it’s that thing where these things will take time and there are all these little conversations

1:23:28

you know panels you get invited to read and insert have been more of that into you know to a broader forum to people in

1:23:36

these different positions of power and that

1:23:46

chef ranking so we just have to have it

1:23:54

with a space of comma because these these issues can really feel I do we get

1:23:59

passionate about them to get distressed even though they’re upsetting and you want to see it stopped but it is it’s a

1:24:06

real challenge of you know having the courage to really know that eventually a

1:24:12

shift will happen if there’s like a steady and solid move towards that

1:24:17

transit that shift and we were talking at lunch yesterday about how when faced

1:24:26

with contrasting viewpoints two blocks

1:24:31

attempt to read reactive

1:24:44

what’s interesting and is also being in that you know I think we have sometimes

1:24:51

you know people are afraid of us and I hate emphasis you know I think one of

1:24:57

the most amazing experiences in terms of piece of feedback I ever got the same

1:25:03

project road set the oil tycoons around the table and I spoke about that project

1:25:08

on the radio Museum and then I got an email a few days later and when it sort of tracked me down and there was a guy

1:25:15

who’d release him Sunday and he wrote with you when you first started I hated I hated your

1:25:23

project about my head real I had this issue that there should be anything and then I you know and he was writing to me

1:25:30

to tell me that idea that he actually kind of thought about it it was interesting at nighttime but I also

1:25:37

think that as far as so foolery conscious of the fact of not always being in this position of service life

1:25:43

righteousness you know I’m just waiting for you to come around to what I’ve been doing and I think it’s so important that

1:25:50

people would still come and go you know it should be a real issue with what we’re talking about

1:25:57

and I just want people to say I hate your project behind even better your

1:26:29

work articulated more then my

1:26:46

responsibility was to make sure that I didn’t just receive

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[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

1:29:24

part of that bigger project so we’ve kind of launched something here it’s a

1:29:29

really exciting day we’re trying a bit of an experiment to see what kind of things came out of this conversation so

1:29:35

it feels really exciting it feels like we were building towards something that we’re not sure where it’s going but it

1:29:41

kind of feels really exciting we feel like we might be risking some things and we’re gonna terrify that’s a good sign

1:29:47

and thank you to DIY life and open space

1:30:00

because this has been yeah an amazing opportunity to to be in this space thank

1:30:05

you [Music]

1:30:11

thank you recording all of these ideas

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