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Lin marshes practice lies at the intersection of moving image performance and installation she was born in Canada

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and studied fine art at the undergraduate level at Concordia University in Montreal and at the

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graduate level at Goldsmiths University in London where she received her mfa presently Lynn teaches studio practice

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in the BA and fine art programs at the University of Hertfordshire in the UK her work has been exhibited in solo

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exhibitions internationally at the kunssler house benth on Ian in Berlin at steve turner contemporary in Los Angeles

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at the musée d’art contemporain memorial at danielle arnaud Contemporary Art in

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London and at program in Berlin she’s also shown widely in group exhibitions

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and screenings including amongst many the 10th international istanbul biennial

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the central cultural montr verma so in spain menoth dart 5 in Quebec City and

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the National Gallery of Canada at present Lynn divides her time equally between three cities Montreal where she

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exhibits frequently and is represented by gallery Donald Brown London where she

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teaches and Berlin where she has her studio so tonight linds going to be in

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conversation with Jennifer hosek an associate professor of German studies in languages literature’s and cultures who

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is also affiliated with film and Media Studies cultural studies and the University of Havana Queens exchange

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Jennifer spent many periods in Berlin thanks to a series of fellowships and grants while a doctoral candidate at UC

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Berkeley in comparative literature well a postdoctoral fellow at Stanford University and as a faculty member here

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at Queens she is the author of son sex and socialism Cuba in the German

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imaginary published by university of toronto press 2012 her current larger

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projects are lingual I’ve dot CA an open-access eaten and platform that

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facilitates language exchange as well as a monograph on transnational urban cinema

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this evening we’re going to begin with a presentation by Lynn which will include screening of clips of her work Stadium

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and planter vault this is going to be followed by a conversation between Lynne and Jennifer afterwards we’re going to

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have time for questions from the audience so um thanks again Sarah for

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the introduction and thank you jennifer for joining us tonight the discussion we

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seem to have a lot of crossovers and our interests and thinking about contemporary Berlin I’ll start with what

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brought me to Berlin which was a year-long residency at council house battalion in 2006 and 2007 and this is a

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picture of actually the the kunssler house battalion it which was a former

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hospital and I had the studio I was like

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just on the other side of the tower on the second floor behind that those trees so I lived in this amazing building for

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a year and since that time I’ve been making a body of work that is very much

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in dialogue or informed by Berlin as a place I came to Berlin at a time when it

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was already very established as an art world center with artists moving there or living there part-time from all over

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the world this creates a sense of Berlin as a studio or a place a creative a

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place for creative production with a lot of debate and dialogue and time for that

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because the economic imperatives was and still is not nearly as high as other art

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centers Berlin has still relatively cheap studio rent and you know very

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reasonable cost of living it also means that many artists are using the city and

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its contexts for their work cultural and other kinds of institutions are open to

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corporation with artists and that includes musicians and dancers and

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curators Berlin is a city charged if not burdened with his

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three it’s very palpable it’s part of the atmosphere and it was important it’s

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important for me to state that my take on Berlin is the viewpoint of a tourist and post 1989 reality I’m observing and

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responding in my own way to sites and context but interest me the point of

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view of a tourist also allows me a certain kind of freedom an interpretation of sites and situations

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that are informed by their historical past however I’m interested in how they

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are operating socially and politically in the present tense as well this

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evening I’m going to present two works both location-based video works one filmed at the Olympic Stadium completed

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in 1936 during the Third Reich and the second in a former East German amusement

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park planta veld cooter Park which opened in 1969 and operated until

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nineteen eighty nine in both videos work in both video works the sites can be

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understood not only as settings but also as protagonists the camera and in

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particular the camera movement attempts to describe attributes and animate characteristics inciting a

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characterization of the space this is

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inside the Olympic Stadium so when i arrived in july two thousand six berlin

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was hosting the world cup so soccer championship and the olympic stadium was

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on screens throughout the entire city it had undergone a recent refurbishment by the architects gherkin marg and partner

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I had this is a picture of the stadium

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from Leni Riefenstahl Olympia and I’d already been interested in the stadium

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before arriving in Berlin through refrence tiles film this is another

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image kind of sketchy image but those are all bodies

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on the field my residency proposal was to look at how Olympia documenting got

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documenting the 1936 olympic games in the same stadium could be seen as a

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precursor to contemporary cinematic computer-generated imagery i also wanted

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to think about the stadium in a contemporary context i knew that the architects would have worked with a 3d

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model and so i contacted them and they provided me with this virtual model

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which I could then reanimate in a 3d software the architects kept true to the

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integrity of the original design which is a monument of Nazi design but added

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this amazing white roof that makes it look totally sci-fi so this is my

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rendering of their model I decided to create an animated sequence from the

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model as a way to free the stadium from its particular locality to turn it into

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an object moving in space and to enter it through the virtual or another future

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so here also to short clips the first

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one the opening sequence

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okay the second sequence is a little further along

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you

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so on location we use this camera crane that allowed us to create movement

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similar to the 3d camera and two pointer techniques favored by Riefenstahl including the crane shot and long

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traveling circling shots the bird’s-eye view on the enormous seating blocks

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conveys a strong sense of the building’s hierarchical structuring which had been

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designed with the aim of organizing crowds a figure in a white tracksuit

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enters the scene underlining the standardized and absolute uniformity of

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the architecture and the anonymity a non

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amenity of the individual within it then

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she slowly starts striding over the seats going against the oppressive functionality of the architect

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architectural surroundings increasingly her movements shipped from pedestrian

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movement of public space towards a choreography reminiscent of early Olympic calisthenic designs and dances

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the soundtrack for stadium was composed by Stephan naman an electronic musician

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from Vienna using his original music and recordings that we made on-site he

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describes an animus pneus to the site and the tension between the figure and

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the architecture the next circle shows

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planta veld which was shot in the autumn of 2009 and completed in 2010 this piece

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is about 20 minutes and here I’ll show a clip of about four minutes

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this is an installation image from the National Gallery of Canada and so the

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video is projected onto a large freestanding wooden screen that’s

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reminiscent of a drive-in theater screams lightly scaled down and the

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viewer sits on these bleacher like benches so they’re kind of low in the

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space and the image is looming down towards the viewer and the screen and

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the bench is also point to this kind of outdoor architecture of the amusement park okay a little backstory i

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discovered the park like many berlin tourists while in a bike ride along the

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spa day it’s an abandoned gdr former East German amusement park just along the east side of truck tow Park not far

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from the Soviet monument if you know that part of Berlin and what you see

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from the bike path is a fenced off forested area with some glimpses of very unusual architecture swan boats

21:20

dinosaurs and this iconic ferris wheel and on first sight it feels like you’ve

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found this sort of lost land or some kind of contemporary ruin the separation

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of these worlds is also very precarious with a kind of flimsy fence and of course what happens is a lot of people

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hop the fence and go explore and in order to prevent people from trespassing

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into the park or catching people once they do a security company has been hired to keep people out I didn’t hop

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the fence although very tempted but I immediately thought that I wanted to do

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some research and see if i could find the official channels or gain permission to to get into the site I did however go

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back a lot to see if I could catch glimpses of the guards almost interested

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in modern monetary them they were sort of policing the park the

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park opened in 1969 as co2 Park plant availed and was a popular amusement park

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for East Berliners and East Germans through the 70s and 80s after unification the park was privatized the

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least was the lease was sold to mr. Vita and at the same time planter though which is a kind of larger area than just

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the park was declared a nature sanctuary and from my understanding of the

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contract the local municipality still owns and regulates the land however Mr

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Vita owns the least of the park under mr. Vita while the park was renamed play

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park and due to a complexity of issues including land use restrictions economic

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development and management issues by 2001 the park was bankrupt and closed

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then a crazy story follows where mr. vitta abandons the park takes off to

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Peru with a few rides telling the authorities that he’s going to open know

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that he’s having the rights fixed he tries to open the park the nuts and

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bolts are not the same sort of standard so that fails and then he ends up being

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caught smuggling drugs in the rides back to Germany so and there’s a great

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documentary on him called off the bone so he goes to prison and the park stand

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dormant for seven years so during that time is the city officials and creditors

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take charge of the park hire security company to safeguard the site this is to

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protect them and the public from the collapsing architecture in 2008 mr. Vita

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was released from prison the bankruptcy proceedings withdrawn and the

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um please return to him what I found

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fascinating the story and in my research into the current state of the park in 2009 was this sense of its preservation

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as a failed monument or failed project after unification the unstable and

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multi-layered identity of the German capital produced some failed market

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economy experiments of which spray park or plant availed was one the collapsing

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the collision of two political systems in East and West Germany created a

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number of dead zones or no men no man’s lands in the city sights awaiting

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capitalization some of which never succeeded planta veld is still stuck in

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this moment and stands as a remnant of his collision it embodies the status between these two political systems the

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starting point for the work was the idea of the parks persistence to exist and in the sense to attempt to describe the

25:27

being of the park as a kind of character I was interested in the separation and cut off pneus from public space and the

25:35

futility of its policing my successful entry into the park was through the

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security company the company had not been paid for its services since the Lee’s had been returned to mr. Gaeta

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they were however hanging in there in the hopes that new investors would be found and a huge contract would come

25:54

their way so for a fee I was able to gain access and found the guards founds

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and guards who agreed to participate as actors the question for me became how to

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perform how to perform the present condition of the park via the guards and

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by the camera so these are images from google earth i began looking at the top

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of topography of the park its spatial design and the way in which bodies are directed to navigate in a kind of

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constant looping circular way through the site

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with my director of photography we began to look for an apparatus that we could use to generate camera movement that

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would in a sense rien scribe this topography and what we found was a pole

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cam a lightweight pole with tiny lith the tiny lens at the end that could be

26:55

remotely controlled the pole could swing in all directions and the lens could pan up and down and turn 360 degrees to

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allow us to make these surreal camera movements the filming then became a

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series of experiments in multi camera perspectives and movements that would embody different subjectivity these

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included tracking shots that create a series of hovering and suspended camera movements traveling shorts so sometimes

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the camera is traveling parallel to the guards or following the guards to the

27:35

park as they kind of trace out this topography and fixed shots or panning

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shots where there’s a sense of observation surveillance or spying the

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soundscape is made from recordings on site and was composed to immerse the viewer in the forest park and to create

27:55

a sense of unease and suspense with any out without any kind of reveal and if

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you know tarkovsky’s stalker you’ll see strong references to the cinematic language which also describes a zone or

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otherworldly space so in both planta

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veld and stadium I’m trying to speak to a sense of indeterminacy and open-endedness and unresolved using the

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suspended and hovering camera as well as show a temporal progression in as well

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as a slow temporal progression in the montage to describe a moment before things happen or not or potentially

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explode so I was I was actually struck by well

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so many things but you were talking about so you’re talking about the way

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that the photography in the stadium was was reminiscent of that of riefenstahl

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in the kind of power and then with the ruins of plant abad there’s so much

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green and I was reminded of benja means or and I was similar it’s really more

29:06

similar who talks about the way that nature cat overcomes the ruin both

29:14

civilization that there’s the fight between civilization in nature and and I

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thought while the stadium in such perfect condition and plant about sort of succumbing to the greenery and I

29:29

wondered if you wanted to talk about two things in regards to that one there are two very different histories right and

29:36

the reclaiming of the histories are so different on one hand the fascist past and then we reuse that in some ways is

29:46

very different in some ways is very similar because sports for example has a

29:51

kind of a you know there are some ways in which it it reminds us of mass mass

30:00

mass rallies and sort of that emotion right so kind of frightening but then on

30:06

the other hand brings people together wink since I it has those two sides and and then in

30:14

in this case is this kind of nothing happening kind of moment so that whether

30:19

you see I if you could talk about those differences yeah and also what it was like to fill in those places and to be

30:26

there yeah I mean I think that was the thing that really that struck me the most is what it was actually like to be

30:32

in those spaces because they’re they’re

30:37

equally is intense although as you say very different what’s amazing about the

30:42

stadium is that I actually filmed it in color and it really you know it looks like a black and white film it’s it’s

30:49

totally grey and there’s no advertising and there’s no color in the seat so um

30:58

you know the only color is the pitch but of course I don’t I don’t show you the

31:06

details like Coke skills and on the stairs become like really

31:13

important really strong presence of humans I mean to rub ya interrupting

31:21

that space so um it’s a very powerful

31:28

scary to see which is also exciting

31:40

I’ll try putting the mic closer is that ok so the I was saying that in the

31:49

stadium I I’ve been to see football games in the stadium and you know they

31:54

hurt to Berlin has a very expressive fan

31:59

club and they when they start pounding their feet and clapping in unison it’s

32:05

quite terrifying and of course you know planta veld is the opposite it’s it’s

32:12

overwhelmingly full of details and rust and create you know scratches on

32:20

surfaces and but it was and it was also it was more of a magical place to be

32:26

really felt like you were in I mean in both sense you kind of feel like you’re in a museum in some ways but they also

32:36

have a strong sense of presence like plentiful is a place where kids break in

32:42

and have parties and more and more it’s you know it’s if you Google’s play park

32:50

you’ll see images all over the internet it’s becoming this kind of cult II site

32:56

so it still has a kind of present

33:01

reincarnation way yeah so both spaces

33:07

were amazingly I mean you feel I felt privileged to be in those spaces

33:12

actually the comment that you make about

33:18

the people breaking in and having parties reminds me of your comment at

33:24

the beginning when you were talking about you said you said Berlin as a studio and I was thinking about how

33:32

artists participated we had talked about this actually artist participate in in

33:37

Berlin at at that this moment where it’s still between the the well the time you

33:46

know the open sort of openness geographically and and in terms of just the sheer number of

33:54

people that were there and in terms of capital that was there with the fog you know with the father of the wall and

33:59

then the what will be Berlin when you when it becomes a the kind of metropol

34:06

that exists in all of Western Europe with basically not much space for people

34:16

to interact if they don’t have a lot of capital basically and it made me think

34:24

about so so that and so the term in German of Azad swishing notes on like

34:29

it’s a dud between like a use between

34:34

two different at least for myself was

34:40

tricked into arted going

34:49

so these this kind of city where everybody can live and everybody can express themselves in independent of who

34:56

they are wow it’s it’s just great and only to find out that actually it was

35:02

just sushi note song and it’s going away there’s this kind of fight going on and so as you pointed out Lander belt is

35:10

going to go away at some point well maybe they’ll be big hole heiser big

35:16

skyscrapers built there we were talking I’ve been referencing my class because we were talking about the Frankfurt

35:23

squatting squatting movement and but my question is where do artists participate

35:30

in that yes well I’ll come back to your question I want to say that as one of

35:37

the things that I’ve observed I mean in terms of this in-between space you’re talking about and it’s really that’s

35:43

that’s been very exciting to see in Berlin because there is a kind of like a slow-motion it’s like it like

35:50

capitalization is just just a little bit slower and you see it happening and I think because of the contested histories

35:57

around a lot of these sites there is a lot of hesitation that the Senate the

36:02

Senate is kind of like presenting miss municipality government’s level there

36:09

they’re very hesitant they’re being the lobby groups are you know very strong

36:14

and there’s a kind of cultural imperative especially in Berlin there

36:21

was a lot of criticism when the wall came down sort of too quickly or disappeared too quickly and so you know

36:28

this there is this kind of it’s interesting because you can sort of see things better because it’s slowed down I

36:36

think a lot of artists are interacting with that in a number of ways I think

36:41

there’s people making work about that so

36:47

I’m I’m definitely not the only one and there’s a lot of summer schools like

36:55

right now I was doing some research on on plaintiff L sort of like to find out

37:01

okay what’s what what are the plans there’s still no development or new investors but there’s a artist group who

37:10

have started having these summer schools there to rethink they’re trying to keep

37:16

it as a kind of contemporary ruin and to look for ways to interact with it culturally is just said set up sort of

37:26

workshops in it or you know and so so there’s exhibitions being held in former

37:36

bunkers there’s this hardly there’s not that many actually strong art

37:41

institutions to show work so what happens is a lot of these spaces end up

37:48

being also taken over by artists or by curators or or institutions like the

37:55

Berlin biannual which will then how’s work in all these other sites and so so

38:02

it’s a kind of occupation so it’s becoming a physical sight and and a

38:07

cancer in a conceptual site do you think that there’s among artists for example

38:14

political organizing that’s happening in order to avoid having those kinds of

38:19

sound very beautiful opportunities to being co-opted by by investors in the

38:28

sense that when the when areas become hip then the one can command a higher

38:37

price so I don’t know whether mr. Vita is going to show up at some point when

38:42

once it’s a very hip area in order to sell to somebody yeah it’s thinking

38:48

about there’s so much resistance so that it’s unbelievable like in on my street

38:53

in Russian burgers placer they made a which is west courts burg so it’s kind

38:59

of a it’s always been a very leftist neighborhood and it has really strong community groups so they built a

39:12

luxury condo where you could drive your car in and then would like go up an

39:17

elevator and stuff and there’s a cafe beside it and they have to post a security guard in front of this building

39:23

24 hours because people have vandalized have written all over this building have

39:29

spit on people in the cafes and its really really it’s more radical than

39:35

anywhere else I’ve seen in Europe in terms of this aunty or against this

39:40

gentle Cashin I don’t know how long that can resist but it’s certainly there in a

39:48

strong way um I think I don’t know I

39:54

maybe I want to be optimistic they turn the tempelhof airfield into one of the

40:03

biggest parts i’ve ever seen and you can literally ride your bike or rollerblade

40:08

down this runway you know I’m hoping

40:14

that they’re still in resistance I’m hoping that this doll resistant I wonder

40:19

whether there are different this is a bit of a topic shift but whether you’ve noticed any differences in the reception

40:26

of your work among people who are more from the east it you know or more from

40:33

the West trained and then also interest me whether British audiences are see

40:39

that your work differently than say German audiences yeah well I think

40:44

German artist audiences would definitely see the work differently but when I showed in 2008 I showed a stadium in Los

40:52

Angeles and people read it as being read

40:58

it sort of through the context of New Orleans and that you know people were

41:03

housed and stay you know so I think depends on how much

41:10

you know people read a text before they see a work they’re going to make

41:15

whatever connections that they can to places that they know so i think that

41:22

the work reads more directly in terms of its specific references to a German

41:29

audience or audience who are you know familiar with these places that I hope

41:35

it speaks to broader audiences Easton

41:41

west um it’s hard to say I don’t trying

41:50

to think of who when I was at patan yin one of the technicians and sort of

41:55

friend of mine wasn’t East East German and yeah probably but I haven’t I do I

42:03

I’d have to do more of a survey to find out I have I couldn’t tell you exactly mm-hmm I’m concerned a little bit about

42:10

time for the audience but I guess that the what I was thinking about was also something that we had talked about in

42:15

preparation for this talk which was the question of which which histories of

42:21

Berlin remain present in the city after the changes and which ones go into decay

42:29

and which ones are are reconstructed

42:34

let’s say and we were talking about the palace tetas public for example which was an East German building that was

42:41

demolished and that was what I wondered I guess more specifically whether there

42:46

might be East Germans who you know we’re kids going to be revived and how that

42:51

would how they would feel about seeing a film like this when it seems like their history is so frequently being erased

42:58

yes absolutely that I think that that would be that’s really true so the powers of the people that the pastor of

43:04

a public was a site that’s right on the right in this near Alexander Platz right

43:10

in the center of Berlin and when I arrived in Berlin in 2006 it was also a kind of a huge event

43:18

of the media because they were deciding to tear this down and so for me the

43:23

difference between the plan de Velde and that site was very significant in that

43:30

plant availed was a kind of monument of failure that was in some way allowed to remain but this kind of very successful

43:40

symbol of socialism that was in the middle of the city had to be torn down

43:45

and and there was a there was a lot of

43:51

yeah a lot of resistance to that and artists were actually using that space

43:57

for four exhibitions before it it was torn down so yeah yeah I would say that

44:03

would be you know a fair assessment yeah what questions do we have from our

44:10

audience Glyn I was wondering if you could speak a bit about the sound in

44:16

stadium you talked a bit about collaborating with an electronic musician and I think obviously the sound

44:21

is a key component of the effect of that piece so could you just speak a bit about your collaboration there yeah um I

44:27

i wanted i wanted stadium to have music more wealth a kind of combination of

44:33

music and and a bit of ambience or sound

44:39

recorded on site because i was trying to make this link between the kind of

44:45

digital an old analog I wanted the soundtrack to feel electronic and contemporary and so

44:51

I I actually went I have a friend who is the director of a one of the music

44:59

festivals and Berlin and so I was showing him some material and I asked him you know genius some people that I

45:05

could work with and he suggested a couple of people and I looked them up and looked at what they were doing

45:10

already and Stefan naman was was really somewhat you know his some of the sounds

45:17

he was making and how he’s was working with son but something that was interested in so um and he was making

45:22

frequent trips to Berlin so we sat down together and I mean my in direction I

45:31

guess a little bit was I I wanted the opening sequence I really wanted to reference like space odyssey you know

45:37

kind of 2001 so I wanted strings I wanted to have those strings I also

45:44

talked a lot about Hitchcock and that kind of tension and that sort of pitch that Hitchcock has so to create that

45:51

sort of suspense and tension we use just

45:57

the ambient recording of the whatever air systems that were there the flip up

46:04

seats so that sort of it sounds like it’s her footstep but it’s around her

46:11

footstep but it’s not her first that it’s just the seat ripping up um yeah so

46:17

so it’s really his composition but my notes Lynn I’m wondering how you

46:26

negotiate your time between Montreal berlin and london how does that look on

46:32

a yearly basis well I I’m teaching

46:41

part-time in london but st i teach on a studio in

46:47

practice program that it’s it’s not the same as as here we don’t have courses in

46:53

the same way so I can punch up day so I have intensive days with my students and then I have time off so i might be back

47:00

and forth every 10 days where every two

47:05

weeks or so depending montreal it often

47:11

is I’m there for projects I also do a lot of my post production in material i have an editor that i work with but i

47:17

really love working with and there’s good i don’t know if you know about prim

47:22

it’s a kind of artist one Center where you can do offline or online and it has

47:29

a sounds to use weight so I go and work there often too and I work with a gallery there and I have friends there

47:35

so and yeah I it changes all the time

47:40

I’m maybe three times a year in Canada and back and forth between the other two

47:49

do you find it exhausting or do you find it that it’s um it’s works to make your

47:55

work more vibrant yeah I mean I know I don’t know how long I will it could all

48:01

change again I don’t um I find that when i get i take these cheap flights between

48:11

London and Berlin and when i get on easyjet i feel like i’m going into the studio I I kind of can it’s it helps me

48:18

separate the kind of work that I have to do and I tried otherwise I think anybody

48:25

knows who’s teaching it’s like can be all-consuming never-ending your email you know so it’s it’s nice to have these

48:31

kind of really performative psychological barriers in a way it’s

48:38

very expensive to keep a studio in London it’s very you know Montreal has

48:44

amazing post production facilities and and my practice is really kind of based

48:49

and comes out of there and still spot you know funded by calc and so I i’m

48:54

still a resident there it’s home i’m not i’m not going to be a british artist or

49:00

a german artist I’m a Canadian artist I’m a Quebec artist so yeah so I need to

49:09

keep that it’s it’s a temporal thing now I could add another could you could all

49:17

change I’ll just wondering about the bigger in stadium was there a specific

49:24

reason why you chose to figure it to be a female brother or not yeah yeah um

49:33

honestly it’s because I used to be a performer in my own work and stadium is

49:38

the first work where I used another performer and I tried to look for

49:44

someone that could maybe look like me but she doesn’t really look like me her places but just the her but like I I

49:51

don’t but not that I really wanted that person to be me but i think i was looking I think I understood how a

50:01

female body could perform because i was working i was doing a lot of performance in my own work and so that’s what’s

50:08

easier for me to think about working with with a woman i also wanted to work

50:13

with a dancer she’s a dancer because I could never or you know like the strength that it took to walk over those

50:19

seats was pretty incredible and she’s doing it like it’s nothing but it’s actually quite in 10 I was there last

50:26

night and then looking at your work today there’s something about the clarity and the strength of the images

50:32

in the focus like there’s a place in the the second images where there’s grass

50:37

it’s also a derelict and there’s these blades of grass that just are outstanding and is that always your

50:45

style to be so crisp is the word I can think of but I apologize because I really don’t know what the words are to

50:51

use but there’s something about how you look at things that’s very clean

50:56

oh ok um hmm well I think stadium is

51:04

very formal in its framing and and

51:09

probably the cleanest in that sense planta veld yeah I guess there are these

51:17

sort of pictorial or beautiful shots but there’s also the wide angle on the on

51:25

the little pole cam lens which does a kind of distortion and last night in I

51:32

think it kind of varies last night in the bruckner piece you know that the two

51:38

bottom screens are hardly ever in focus and you know kind of wandering around and you know the top ones are fixed and

51:46

still so they’re they’re clean and crisp but um but the heads are also moving out of frame I don’t know why I don’t think

51:52

it’s so uniform necessarily but but

51:59

maybe I have a yeah maybe I have an instinctual I’m looking for some kind of

52:06

balance in the frame yeah maybe it’s more about the power of the images than

52:11

the Christmas that I’m front get it but there’s something very powerful in some

52:17

of the ways things look mm-hmm so maybe you could talk about power in the

52:24

context of your work ok well i think

52:31

there’s yeah i think there’s different ways and the power of the image or the power because i think there’s different

52:37

ways i’m playing with power and hierarchies in in the sites like in some

52:44

ways this may be in plant about the the

52:50

the guards are disempowered in some way

52:56

because they’re sort of standing around bored walking around not not doing

53:03

very much I don’t know that the images for me feel like they’re about power but

53:12

there is a sort of diffusion of authority in a way or a kind of pointlessness to it maybe in the

53:23

Bruckner piece in the film on EPS there’s a sort of switch in the hierarchal a system so instead of you

53:29

seeing what you would normally see like the musicians on the stage you’re seeing this you know you’re seeing the kind of

53:36

technical team background as as the as the main event and so maybe in a sense

53:42

I’m elevating I’m photographing them in a way that elevates their status there’s

53:50

one of the things maybe that it comes across and maybe this is something i don’t know this is maybe something that

53:55

you’re referring to is that there’s all very often a limited frame of a limited view so you don’t really ever get even

54:02

implant availed you don’t really get so that maybe that’s something that’s more

54:08

signature is that that is that I i I’m very tight in the frame you don’t have a

54:14

oldest notice and plentiful this one shot you didn’t see it there’s one shot where you see something that you see a

54:20

bit more of an open plain but normally the the view is is more narrow ISM is

54:25

tighter and and that kind of creates a sort of abstraction in a way so you

54:32

don’t ever get the whole picture yeah

54:38

that means is your question not sure it’s a question that really doesn’t end I just I have a feeling of a

54:43

sense of purpose that you have a sense of purpose that you really communicate to me as a watcher well that’s good well

54:52

I yeah I mean I think I tried to talk about that invited maybe wasn’t

54:57

difficult a super clear but that that i do have particular ideas in terms of how

55:04

I’m framing a site and how trying what I’m trying to maybe get across through that frame so i talked about the sort of

55:12

hovering in suspense suspension of the cameras also being connected to this

55:17

maybe sense of indeterminacy or unresolved about the the nature of those

55:22

spaces so those are those are maybe some of the things that I’m thinking about when I’m when I think about how the

55:29

camera moves or how to frame it in the

55:35

back

55:47

what I through the literature that it’s

55:53

coming to us as members and what I thought I got from the preamble it was

56:02

that it’s a tourist view of Berlin and I

56:08

here as a tourist yes and an ancient so

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probably what the students are seeing there is totally different from what I

56:21

see because when the left stadium on all

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I saw was the third grade and soldiers marching with a thinking straight ahead

56:37

no no emotion no nothing and you’re one

56:43

person was some person still wanting to break that pattern and going to any mess

56:52

of a could think of despite all that regimentation another great reading lots

56:58

about totally disturbing mm-hmm but beautiful artwork but it just took me

57:05

back to that period sure yeah no I don’t know if that’s what you thought we were

57:10

doing that thats related to me yes and then to the park well I think if you’re in

57:20

Berlin is interest I see German persons are still trying to figure out who they

57:26

are that’s moving because you’re still east and west whether your plot is one

57:33

now and when you look up there’s still

57:39

got you came with everything falling down her before but the persistent

57:45

growth and beauty which was beyond imagination and they don’t know what to

57:52

do with it until early in the past present and potential future the thing

58:00

went and ruined it all only because you put those guards in there so that didn’t

58:08

let me get away it took away my whole right up the old stuff was falling down

58:16

and all this beauty was coming up but still there are birds marching like in

58:23

more time everywhere watching watching watching yep so I don’t know if you

58:29

realize the power of what you’ve done but if you would show that to people of

58:36

different age generations I think you would get a totally different response

58:41

from each depending on where you find so

58:46

no no your your your your observations are amazing and they’re right on um you

58:54

know the the eye lemme beauties I love to triumph of the will I love that films that showed you

59:02

know marching soldiers and I news you know eat the minute you go that’s day and that’s what you see that’s what

59:08

everybody sees and when I when I use the word tourists it’s because that’s what I see when I couldn’t stay in i use the

59:14

word tourists because i don’t oh I don’t all not history in a sense that I’m I’m

59:20

not from there I can grow up there I didn’t know so so I’m coming in is

59:25

outside are making these observations but but what we’re saying is is absolutely true and absolutely part you

59:32

know the content of the work um just the

59:38

comment on the guards yes they ruin it but but they’re there they’re part of

59:46

the space so it for me that was also kind of interesting because the guards

59:53

are not if the guards are not diffused so in the way that the that there’s a

1:00:01

presence of the guards in the stadium through the through the seeding which really replicates those rows and rows of

1:00:06

soldiers or even replicates the Jewish monument if you’ve seen the Jews one

1:00:12

with monument in Berlin which is these sort of stocks of grey Marvel I guess so

1:00:18

the guards aren’t in they have no order they have you know their their their

1:00:25

powers been kind of yeah diffused so so

1:00:30

from that that was my choice too and also because they sort of are part of that space that was my choice to keep

1:00:37

them no no you can see her in the world maybe

1:00:43

you’re right thank you for your comments yeah

1:01:04

you

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