0:02

my name is shauna mccabe and i am the director of the art gallery of guelph and i am very pleased to welcome you all

0:09

as well as our guests um artist anna torma who today is in baivert new brunswick

0:15

curator and artist bryce canberra who’s in hamilton uh sarah clinton curatorial director for

0:22

the textile museum of canada in toronto and the textile museum is responsible

0:28

for the development development and basically the circulating so the touring of uh this exhibition called permanent

0:34

danger which uh is actually up and ready to be seen by the public as soon as we are able to

0:40

open to begin with i’d like to offer an atlanta acknowledgement on behalf of the

0:46

art gallery of guelph which is hosting this dialogue tonight um guelph ontario is situated on treaty land that

0:53

is steeped in rich indigenous history and home to many first nations inuit and metis people today

0:59

and as we gathered this evening we would like to acknowledge that the art gallery of guelph resides on the ancestral lands

1:05

of the antawandaran people and more recently the treaty lands and territory of the mississaugas of the

1:10

credit we recognize the significance of the dish with one spoon covenant to this land

1:16

and offer our respect to our anishinaabe nashoni and metis neighbors as we strive to strengthen our relationships with

1:22

them when we express gratitude and recognize our responsibility for the stewardship

1:27

on the land on which we live work and create we also acknowledge that the systemic

1:35

and institutional racism and white supremacy that has and continues to disproportionately affect black and indigenous communities

1:42

as well as wider diverse communities the discovery and kamloops of the remains of 215 children of the

1:48

to kamloops to uh taste the first nations community and the death of

1:53

the afsal family members in london underscores that as individuals organizations and communities

2:00

we must continue to challenge our understanding of our own complicity and in injustice and the role we can play in

2:06

dismantling these systems we are committed to evolving our understanding of equity inclusion and

2:12

anti-racism not only during times of struggle but in all of our daily actions and relationships

2:19

as we are gathered virtually today connected and yet physically dispersed it’s also a good moment to reflect on

2:25

the importance and significance of place and in doing so recognize how all of the

2:30

different traditional lands we reside in and move through inform our lives and we acknowledge the elders

2:36

past present and future of these lands with gratitude and respect

2:42

a few details everyone’s been muted for this conversation but we please feel free to use the chat

2:48

area for questions and we will look at those and those can be for anna sarah bryce

2:55

all of the all of the participants tonight and we will turn to the questions after the conversation

3:01

that will take place we’re all collectively grateful for the support that we have as institutions

3:07

and um for tonight’s event as well uh we’re grateful for the support of the ontario arts council the canada council

3:14

for the arts and the toronto arts council as well for this exhibition supporting partner

3:20

of the sheila hugh makai mckay foundation as well as carol tannenbaum and as well

3:27

in particular for this event the canada council’s art across canada program for their support of this event

3:33

as well as the upcoming catalog now i’d like to turn it over to sarah quinton who is the

3:39

curatorial director as i said at the texas museum of canada who will introduce our speakers tonight

3:46

thanks so much shauna um it’s a lovely lovely introduction um this is a timely and rich partnership

3:54

between uh speaking of the institutional partnership between the textile museum of canada and

4:00

the art gallery of guelph welcome to everybody who’s joining us this evening

4:06

it’s great to have so many people with us today it’s my pleasure to introduce our

4:11

esteemed guest and guests anna torma and bryce cambara and i want to thank you both for joining

4:17

us in an informal conversation around anna’s work in permanent danger anna torma was born

4:24

in hungary and graduated with a degree in textile art and design from the hungarian university of applied arts in budapest

4:31

that was in 1979 anna has been an exhibiting artist since that time

4:37

producing many large-scale hand embroidered wall hangings and collages

4:42

she immigrated to canada in 1988 and currently lives in bayveer new

4:47

brunswick the recipient of many grants and awards in canada and abroad

4:53

torma is a member of the royal canadian academy of arts a recipient of the 2020 governor

4:58

general’s award in visual and media arts the new brunswick lieutenant governor’s award for high achievement in visual

5:05

arts and the strath butler award from the sheila huma kai foundation which is in new brunswick anna is

5:12

represented by gallery la roche yonkas in montreal and at this very moment she

5:17

is participating in a group exhibition at clint rownish gallery in toronto um so i

5:23

encourage any of you who are in the vicinity to um you probably have to book a book a

5:29

slot at uh at the gallery and uh enjoy some of anna’s new work

5:35

on that in that location bryce cambara is a hamilton-based uh visual

5:42

artist and curator and bryce is the recipient of the 2021

5:48

governor general’s award for outstanding contribution to the visual arts congratulations uh bryce he’s a founding

5:57

member and first administrator of hamilton artist inc and has had held several positions

6:03

at the burlington arts center the art gallery of hamilton and the glen hurst art gallery of brandt

6:10

he was the executive director of the toronto chapter of the national association of japanese canadians

6:15

and the chair of their endowment fund and national executive member bryce was the visual arts crafts and

6:22

design officer for the ontario arts council co-chair of the board of directors of the workers arts and heritage center in

6:30

hamilton the governing council member for the hamilton center of civic inclusion

6:35

and he is currently the curator and chair of the arts committee at toronto’s japanese canadian cultural center

6:42

bryce is a proprietor of you me gallery in hamilton which he views as an

6:47

intervention connecting art and the general public and i think that’s a lovely segue into

6:53

um speaking about art with you the general public and of course with anna and on that note bryce i’ll i’ll pass

7:00

things over to you okay um i want to thank shauna

7:06

and sarah for inviting me to take part in this today

7:11

and a suggestion of me to interview who was a curious choice though i think i’m not a textile

7:18

person and i live in hamilton which is the place that uh anna and this fan left years ago

7:27

i um i had a kind of when i was preparing for this and looking through all of anna’s

7:33

anna’s um images i had this anxiety dream the other night where i was lost in one of the permanent

7:41

danger works and being chased by monsters with teeth and barenaked women nonetheless

7:50

nonetheless i’ve been looking forward to today and i want to say i really have admired

7:56

how anna’s work and the response to her work especially um has grown over the past

8:04

decade or so sarah did most of the the bio

8:09

i had a bunch of that here as well but i also wanted to mention that um

8:20

anna and his fan have two sons who are also artists balance and david and they’ve been

8:27

prominent in in just the artworks that have been

8:33

produced by that family you lived in hamilton until 2002 and you

8:40

moved to new brunswick you learned embroidery embroidery work from your mom i think

8:46

in hungary um and um a lot of the thematic images in your

8:52

work are inspired in part by hungarian folklore mythology

8:58

images borrowed from his fan and your son’s work and of course your own

9:05

very personal and passionate view of life in the state of the world

9:13

i watched several really good and informative interviews with with anna online and i

9:20

assume that you wanted to talk with me so you could provide viewers with some um

9:28

a little bit of information about your hamilton experience and uh and your pre-fame days i think i

9:35

should put it um am i correct in that anna

9:44

thank you for the intro and your memories bryce and if i want to

9:50

answer why i invited you for this conversation then

9:55

probably if i want to to answer with one word it’s this word would be hamilton

10:02

because hamilton was the place where we crossed paths a couple of years ago actually

10:10

33 years ago when we landed in in canada

10:17

and spent probably two days in toronto and then for the advice of

10:23

our hungarian friends we we we headed to to hamilton which was a

10:30

reputation of worker city which was fine with us

10:35

we came from the communist hungary anyways so we were familiar with the workers

10:42

situations and but the promise was the easy access for the for the schools

10:50

for our two kids and for ourselves for for the english english courses because

10:56

we didn’t have the language in that time and cheap food and walking around the

11:04

downtown library and what else

11:10

a good swimming pool on the pink and a botanical garden and a fantastic

11:18

textile shop on the bolton street so that was a kind of promised land for us

11:25

and we suffered in hamilton and slowly um introduced ourselves to the

11:32

art scene and we we met friends and artists and we were very active in that time at the 90s

11:41

organizing exhibitions and participating at the artisting openings

11:48

which were a very festive occasion every weekend

11:53

and beer and good conversations and everything judy burgess was the secretary there

12:00

and paul trevitch and paul morsky and and and happened the very first

12:08

exhibition there for me and for my husband are the humber gallery run by

12:14

dennis lison and and jim mullin poor guy who just passed away left us

12:21

here with with really really sad memories

12:27

or good memories but but it’s a sad event what i just heard so so hamilton was just for us

12:34

when we came to canada and we it’s set up our framework how the

12:41

canadian life should be and i really really like to remember

12:47

for that starting point with this fantastic occasion when my work traveled

12:53

to the art gallery of gas which is fantastic thank you very much to taking me

13:00

shona there it’s i i appreciate that so much um

13:07

and and

13:12

i think it’s it’s it’s very very good point to to go back a little

13:19

bit i at least with my words not a raspberry retrospective shoe

13:25

but just to just to liven up those first moments in in a new country which

13:31

which was hamilton for us and a group of young young artists with our age group

13:39

we went friendship and and

13:44

and prognosed the whole life that’s what will happen with us for two professional artists and and two

13:52

young children what will happen and and that was that

13:59

that was my my thoughts when i when i invited you guys well those

14:06

those works that um that your that balance and david did when there

14:11

were children and and you incorporated them into your textiles i mean they were um they were really

14:18

attention grabbing for me like no one no one yeah looking in that kind of crap thank

14:24

you for for for telling these because you know i was quite

14:30

i have not many tools in that early years i had no studio i have just the kitchen

14:37

and i was really busy to to raise these two kids and and what i didn’t want to give up

14:45

my artist identity and somehow it came to me too naturally to

14:53

to work together as a group with the kids because the the world of the kids and

15:00

my uh gravitation to the outsider art and the naivete of of those stories

15:07

i it was really really close to me so it was easy and and for the whole aesthetics of the

15:15

family just bonded in dot hamilton time because they went to school the

15:21

elementary school and we had no language again literally had just hungarian together

15:28

and they became perfect english speakers and and we couldn’t follow them

15:34

into the the english english field of literature and

15:40

and and to the director’s office when they it’s needed to go and and we’ve just

15:47

communication was not very perfect language-wise but they were drawing and everything was

15:55

always in hand well it sounds like an idyllic time i mean i don’t even know

16:00

why you even left hamilton you made the idea from from even from

16:07

the bad times if you have a uh of personality to make

16:15

the the really bad things better than than you are lucky probably

16:22

we were lucky with us that bond and

16:27

i will tell you why why came him to leave hamilton because

16:33

we had some very good exhibition that i really want to

16:38

to mention after the homemade then it was a show a group show at the age

16:45

age the title was 1996 and

16:51

curated by carol carol codewarning oh and who was that yes and

16:58

and they and she invited me and the igorholubiski was that their their main curator and and they

17:06

invited me as a fiber artist which was a wonder of the world because the scenario

17:13

was mostly for the classical visual but i was invited and

17:19

i produced three large um awesome blush or for

17:25

[Music] installation work and it’s it’s made in my kitchen

17:31

but that was so promising you know that i can participate nice big

17:38

museum shows if i have place and if i if i can follow my ideas and execute

17:46

my my thoughts so but in hamilton i had i had no possibility to get

17:53

studio or even bigger place and our friends told us uh once

18:00

if you go to new brunswick it’s the the land and the house is cheap and you can have

18:06

us because you want and that was a wonder because we never

18:11

owned any houses anywhere and we came one beautiful day

18:18

and and we stuck well i’m sure i’m sure please

18:26

i’m sure that uh your environment out there is going to come up again but we better get back to the your guelph show and

18:34

i think um uh shawna prepared a little walk through so we could we could go through

18:41

so just to give people an overview of what the exhibition is is um about you get a

18:50

yeah it looks wonderful even even more airy and and more

18:57

filled with energy than than at the textile museum the texas museum was

19:02

fantastic too but but the space it seems to be a little bit bigger

19:08

and uh and uh it looks really nice

19:17

okay so so you wanna i’ve i got i kind of wanted to focus on um a few of

19:24

your works and the first one here is called torso um

19:31

2011. and i thought it was a good one to begin with um because there’s a variety of

19:38

techniques here i think there’s hand embroidery on cotton fabric um silk screen print and found

19:46

embroidery so um and they’ve reminded me of um a bit of of samplers you know the

19:54

the embroidery work that that um uh women and and young girls did

20:00

to kind of demonstrate their dex their techniques and skills

20:07

in in stitching and except of course these are larger

20:14

and you’re starting to introduce new techniques like applique

20:20

and that sort of thing so what um what did you have in mind in in doing

20:26

these and sort of um straying away from straight stitch work

20:34

so this is the the opening piece the welcoming piece or on the exhibition title and i

20:42

was kind of happy when i when i see because it’s kind of summarizing

20:47

lots of my thoughts about what i want to say see say with my work

20:55

the technique is here of course but the content of this this little fairly little piece

21:02

for me is there it’s a small size collage loosely sewn together and framed

21:08

as a portrait it’s important it’s portrait and but the central figurative element is a

21:14

self-clean printed human torso depicted the nervous system of the

21:20

upper human body on the corners i ordered four hungarian traditional honda

21:27

embroidered flower bouquet for embellishment this gesture embody

21:34

the intention of over embarrassment gives domestic association to the

21:40

scientific approach so it’s a kind of

21:46

mixing together two words the scientific and uh kind of artistic but it’s

21:52

it’s uh it’s not in an ideal way it’s a mismatch ray you know just like

21:59

as the everyday life is you know it has no pure ecstatics and no high heart and low

22:07

work and so the the things that in our life is not segregated they’re followed by

22:14

fog by fog but it’s mixed together and and washed in and that’s that’s

22:21

the intention here to to create some aesthetics with

22:28

with these feelings behind it so so maybe every ingredients are there and they are

22:36

not perfect in their own right but if you put together as a picture

22:42

with the relationship in the certain elements probably

22:47

gives you some more than the summary of the details so that was in my mind

22:54

so you’re not tied to um traditional technique then i mean you’re no i wanted

23:01

to do that i learned that i was a child and i hated to do that because it was

23:07

not not free enough for me it was a lesson you know what you see done and and

23:15

through you something what it’s necessary to do but later the

23:22

creativity came with the with the knowledge you know if if you don’t think what you are doing

23:30

because the technique is in your hand then your mind can free be free

23:38

and and to do things right yeah because because from you know what you’ve said

23:43

in the past you have this great respect for the tradition of of um textile work and and embroidery

23:51

and and you have this profound knowledge of materials you talk

23:57

about the different um fabrics that you use and the different threads that you use

24:04

and and you’re you know obviously very

24:10

well versed on on all that stuff but you’re willing to transgress those

24:17

boundaries and and explore new new um new ways

24:22

i i think in this point i i can say i am more or less

24:28

visual artist and i’m using this craft techniques as my thoughts

24:35

require you know not not otherwise not not the craft techniques

24:42

goes around in my head and and make make things with that in my mind but

24:48

i have a team i have something to say and then i use this these found objects or

24:55

ugly embroidery or nice embroidery or whatever so i am very very big

25:03

fan of every uh textile techniques uh of course

25:09

even the weaving weather and the toughest is you know the perfect objects is a it’s a wonderful thing you

25:17

can you can see that you are a japanese man you you see some really really

25:24

beautiful handcrafted stuff in your own culture i hope

25:31

yeah well let’s go can we move on i i thought we would go to um

25:38

number five um sarah which is we can skip through to permanent

25:44

danger i think it’s five permanent danger

25:51

so that’s the title piece yeah yeah that’s the title piece and the

25:57

first room at the textile museum of canada and it’s hanged really in the

26:05

central central place and you can

26:10

imagine you can walk around it and yeah so that’s

26:15

back right it’s their views of the trump

26:22

yes the front and the back the front is the lighter variation and the back is the darker one

26:30

and it’s i i it wasn’t my intention to make a two-sided piece but

26:35

when i begin to work with it this is three layer of fabrics and then when i begin to

26:43

embroider the drawing and okay uh accidentally just flipped

26:50

and saw the back and and then i realized the back even even more beautiful than the than the

26:57

first one then i made flip flop all the time and i thought i really need to to

27:04

complete this as a two-sided piece because it says so different things on the back than the

27:11

fourth and i was there and and i finished it probably 10 months or

27:19

11 months i i didn’t want to to spend the whole year with

27:24

it but the piece told me it’s better to do that because it’s

27:31

worth are there you know you are not always a

27:39

designer not just a designer you are a designer at the beginning and just like a good engineer or

27:47

designer but then if you are an artist you go with the flow and and you really build in the

27:55

the good accidents yeah so i was mistaken because i thought it was a front and a back but it’s two-sided

28:02

you you worked on it from both sides yeah well that’s that’s great um but there’s

28:10

um but here again um you know the the danger is symbolized by those those mod

28:16

those hybrid monsters that i think were those created or or

28:21

inspired by your son’s work um the ones that are in it’s all of this

28:27

i say i say previously this family is working as an artist

28:34

group and we are criss crossing each of us eat each other’s imaginations and

28:42

without any hesitations so go back and forth and influence each other greatly and

28:49

we are happy with that all four of us so do they borrow um and do they borrow

28:58

it back yeah um i am the i am the i am the big stealer

29:06

but they just borrowed back something david did something from me but

29:13

balance used to inspire by my activities and and he does water

29:21

colors lately as an arduino artist but i really like the complexity of the life

29:29

and the really difficult relationship between between the humans and the

29:35

gardening importance and what so the thematically uh he

29:42

is with us not formally you know not not the former drawings he has his own

29:48

figures what what he animate but the the

29:54

are are comes from this the the the same route what we are

30:01

yeah diana’s talking about balance her son yeah who’s a a great artist too

30:08

um uh what was i gonna do yes and you you’ve all often talked about

30:13

storytelling and the importance of storytelling in your work but i do your works start off do you

30:21

plan them to be this complex like there’s so there’s so much activity

30:27

and and uh complexity and and denseness to your imagery

30:32

do you plan them from the beginning to be like that or do they organically become

30:40

yes or no because because i have inspirations if i travel

30:47

i see wonderful pieces like when i was in paris at the middle age museum and saw the the

30:55

unicorn toughest trees you know you just see and i thought oh my goodness how can i

31:02

how can i enjoy this kind of feeling a little bit more at least at

31:08

home or how can i produce something like this you know and of course i am not at the

31:14

middle age i am here in in a new new brunswick and what can i do

31:19

to to reach that feeling that that sense you know because because it’s so

31:27

so large and so you so you tend to i have a desire to to

31:34

to reach something you know and i have figures i have colors and i have stitches

31:40

and and these bowl contents everything what i have and some i i need to put

31:47

together something with this so and that’s how they they were born so

31:52

rather than separating your ideas and your influences you just cram them all together yeah yeah i i

32:00

live with them and and you know i have heartbeat goes faster when i when i see something

32:06

what i really like you know and and and i even if

32:12

it can be a flower it can be a honeybee or or whatever you know

32:19

a cheap monk here in the garden or or or even the the fire monsters what they

32:25

what they draw me or or i imagine some some other things and

32:32

and eastward is a big storyteller on his own right and and he has very central thoughts about

32:38

the humankind what is important what is not and he is politically really active and so i am

32:46

i am in the bunch of people who are very very um

32:53

interesting personalities and we borrow from each other and and we inspire each other oh by the

33:01

way i’ve got a couple of this fans works here really ha oh yeah we exhibited a new me

33:08

right yes oh my goodness

33:14

yeah yeah yeah yeah starman i think and these these little two

33:21

little oh ah i know yeah little bronzes

33:28

yeah the pair yeah these are his fans and i those two little ones i got when um

33:35

you had that uh studio sale before you left for new bernswick really yeah i remember going there to

33:43

your house on mountain avenue and and picking these up they were ah

33:49

nice um okay we better keep moving um number six oh yeah we should talk about

33:56

this permanent five and permanent danger four because they’re so

34:02

different from the rest of your from the other pieces

34:08

so they’re all cut outs and silhouettes right yeah and i think you talked about them

34:15

as being simpler to create and produce because

34:21

you’re cutting them out and and and um i guess are they all stitched or are

34:27

they everything is staged and on stage yes it is that form fabric

34:35

the black and of dust rose or off of

34:40

white fabrics and it’s interesting to to know that the permanent danger the

34:47

number one what we talked before was the first and these are followed the very detailed

34:56

embroidered piece because i really wanted to see the

35:01

skeleton under the the refined because when when i finish

35:08

something i don’t know it’s good or bad or what is it yeah i need a little bit time distance

35:16

to decide okay it’s good or i am i am

35:22

good with it or not and these these drawings and

35:28

cutouts needed to go out from my system and and see

35:35

how strong are they without those really nicely embarrassed surfaces

35:42

and those impressionistic details which are really enchanting and

35:49

but what’s what is it if i just give the story skeleton you know the the figures

35:57

and and the vulnerability and and lots of fire

36:03

and serpents and huge flowers extinct

36:11

animals stars what is it so how do you how do you feel

36:17

about them compared to it’s it’s needed to needed to to finish this these pieces

36:25

and these are belong to a family which are

36:30

different you know really all different but it’s uh it’s the same

36:36

same storytelling monster like figurative family you know you you can realize

36:44

what are they because it has roses and forms but i what you you can recognize

36:51

yeah and you um you said that you were influenced by kara walker and um yeah bill traylor who were black

36:59

american artists who work similarly in in terms of silhouettes and

37:05

um yes yes and that relationship between the heart and the

37:12

and the unthought voice outsider artist really excites me you know how how you can make a parallel

37:22

or difference between them because surely the outsider art is

37:28

always influencing the mainstream and and how is that like like do you

37:34

face the very good example what what he did he he is a very

37:42

large name in the arts field a modern art maker but

37:49

but what he did with the outsider group in in in france it’s just

37:57

it’s just amazing it just reminded me like those those

38:03

naked women in your um in permanent danger and some of your other ones they look like

38:09

they were done by um adolescent boys or um adolescent kind of like they’re

38:16

like fantasized um depictions of me it’s it’s far away from

38:22

the the right proportions and you know the those are not meant to be uh you know a school

38:30

drawing from university because we all know how you

38:35

you so did you draw them yes i did yeah yeah i did because that

38:42

but it intentionally goes together with the kids imagination

38:47

not not or or if you are a little girl and you

38:54

play with the cut out doll forms i don’t know do you do you

38:59

know those when you were you had a boy but we played with soldiers yes yeah

39:07

it’s a paper one layer of paper and you can change their clothes and

39:12

you can you can go for a walk with them if you change the clothes and

39:17

and so so those are pretending games and it’s needed to to draw a nice

39:25

nice little manic mannequin or or the model and and

39:32

the game was born okay so can we go to i don’t know let’s see what’s what’s tan

39:40

diana dionysian oh so that’s the the next room at the

39:47

textile museum because uh we agreed to sarah clinton

39:53

my my dear friend sarah is better in this way to borrow for this

40:00

exhibition the the party video nissa’s piece but on outside with the museum in

40:08

canada but years ago from from robert poland

40:16

who who is a colorist in montreal and and he sold this piece for a museum and

40:23

we asked back to this exhibition and it was so lonely because i never

40:30

was enough time or opportunity to make some some other related pieces

40:38

and i made this this dionysia piece for for the textile

40:46

museum occasion uh to be

40:51

accompanied with the borrowed peace and but uh between them probably more than 10 years

41:00

it’s different i don’t know but it’s quite uh yeah i made it late and the first one is

41:08

the material is linen and cotton and this one is still poor steel the whole thing

41:15

is uh what that’s what that’s what what

41:22

what can i say what the details well yeah they’re very linear and

41:30

um what’s next can we go to um

41:37

whoa what’s that one oh party with diana yeah that was the

41:45

first piece that we for for the texas museum show for the permanent danger

41:51

and i was really happy to say of the years i parted with so but in this in this one the um

42:00

the beasts appear tamer like they’re more they’re they’re not their mouths are

42:05

closed and they’re not they’re not bearing their life was you know light was easier at that time

42:14

latest one the world is became more dangerous and more um

42:23

or maybe i became older and i saw a lot more

42:31

sad things than than here so these pieces are a little bit more happy

42:38

than the next one yeah because a lot of i mean

42:45

there are themes of um well eden and paradise and um

42:51

adam and eve and and you know they so they bring to mind they bring to mind like bosch’s uh

42:59

garden of uh earthly delights and and yeah uh massachusetts

43:05

um expulsion of adam and eve from the garden and you know all that that kind of stuff and

43:12

it makes us i think you you really zero in on on human vulnerability

43:19

you know and uh and how we’re all um um

43:26

subject to to um um being judged and

43:33

and and being sinful and as lustful as well as

43:39

joyful so you yeah it seems like you just put all this

43:45

stuff together and stir it around for us

43:51

and the genesis is there you know to to create something just like and

43:58

and relationship with with each other the parts all these in connection the connectivity is really

44:06

important to me because it’s really we are all connected and we really need

44:13

to be good with each other because it’s uh the the word is depend on that

44:19

uh but you see less and less those those those actions which would be

44:25

really necessary to survive or better life here so

44:31

uh i’d like to suggest we should treasure

44:39

things a lot more and a lot better than we do so i don’t know it’s successful or not

44:47

but but my my attempt to to say that is there for sure

44:55

you have um do you use accident in in you know okay it’s hard

45:02

to uh to think of because it’s such a

45:11

detailed process stitching and embroidering and so it’s such a meticulous

45:17

process that it’s it’s it’s hard to imagine that you um utilize the accidental in

45:24

your work but it seems like you do have a a regard for for that

45:32

for the accident yeah and and to keep things fresh you know the

45:38

surface should be fresh and the accident is is

45:43

great many time is welcome because because the accident tells you

45:50

it’s uh it’s okay yeah you can go with it because not everything is

45:57

well designed and so how does an accident happen when

46:02

you’re involved in like i said such a meditation i just i just told you when when i

46:09

ended up with the two-sided carpet i didn’t that wasn’t my intention but

46:16

you know but i just flipped and i saw oh how can i preserve both because if

46:23

the finish will come i i will i won’t be able to decide which is

46:30

my favorite part and then i decided i will give extra

46:36

labor and finish both as a as a ready piece and

46:43

you cannot choose which which is better because both is

46:48

different in its own way um you know the story that that you’ve

46:53

told before i guess um that i really like is is how you’re well i don’t know if i

46:59

like it but i mean the the the account of your mother-in-law um having a stroke and

47:07

um yeah which caused her which caused like gaps in her memory so that

47:13

um when she did her traditional hungarian embroidery um those gaps

47:19

appeared in her work like there was uh there were mistaken

47:25

and yeah yeah that that’s that was one of my very favorite project

47:31

really and i didn’t know it will be a project at all i just wanted to be nice

47:37

with her and and figure out how can i entertain her you know in his in her own way

47:45

and how can i produce some kind of uh of task to to finish

47:52

when i will come because she always wanted to meet with us and and always encourage

48:00

us to come come and see me and but i couldn’t fly that many times

48:07

but we had a telephone conversation and letters and everything

48:12

and it’s kept her alive you know when because because she thought i

48:18

care and if i had a good word for for his improvement very very baby step

48:27

improvement on on the embroidery but what he she was doing then then she

48:33

was so happy and she has waited for us and and

48:38

the whole family was so so proud of her and these

48:45

are they yes well you agree but the thing is that you

48:50

really appreciated them as visual objects because of

48:56

those mistakes because i i remember you said something about how those

49:02

irregularities were made them unique and um human

49:08

and i i i i yeah i really like that i i think it’s

49:13

says a lot about the way well how sensitive you are you know it was just like

49:19

mopping the brain it was because the crow stitch is a is a blueprint of something a

49:26

flower or something but it’s one part of missing it’s you can read

49:31

as a brain map because i knew she was able to produce the the whole

49:38

map in in perfect variation but if if she was able to complete

49:45

just a quarter of it and she realized she’s not able to do

49:50

but but she begin again and again and again so to

49:55

try and the the whole result was visually so so right

50:05

yeah you know what yeah it reminded me of um

50:12

uh a quote from she was she’s a she was a japanese um fashion designer

50:18

ray kawakubo i think she was she had the firm um

50:24

conley garcon or something um in the i don’t know 80s or 90s or whatever but

50:31

ray kawakubo said um i like it when something is off she was

50:37

a fashion designer not when something is off not perfect

50:42

and she said hand weaving is the best way to achieve this within with her textiles and fabrics but since

50:49

this isn’t always possible we loosen a screw on the machines here and there so they can’t do

50:56

exactly what they’re supposed to do so they start the the machines start to make these little

51:02

irregularities and accidents but she was she was doing that deliberately and it’s uh that’s what it reminded me

51:08

of and yeah you know art is fantastic because you

51:15

can go from from that point very point for so many ways

51:20

it’s it’s just just amazing because it’s remind me your shadow project

51:27

project which is which i like it very much because

51:34

it needs to be commemorated that that that terrifying event what’s happened

51:41

in in hiroshima and i just cannot imagine any bronze sculpture or

51:48

or anything else you know you you need to to work with this memory but as you

51:55

found this way to to this intervention it’s such a

52:00

such a good point and it’s need organization it’s need a heart it’s need a you know

52:07

a culture to born or or some some artistry to

52:14

to imagine it will happen and it will be better for uh for a for a city for

52:22

people it’s my heart is really goes out for that project yeah um

52:28

anna’s talking about the shadow project which is a commemoration of the atomic bombs on hiroshima and

52:34

nagasaki that we do every year and we people come out and do

52:40

chalk outlines of their bodies as they’re lying down and that that that’s a practice that um

52:47

uh happens every uh august 5th in the evening because the

52:53

bomb on hiroshima was dropped on august the 6th so anyway we better move along here

53:01

but you know the conversation i told you

53:07

let’s can we go to um i don’t know um how about the

53:14

gardens yeah and gardens one and two thank you very much that’s my favorite

53:22

yeah the garden is i am i am a big gardener everybody knows

53:29

that you know i did i didn’t know that you didn’t know that are you a gardener bryce no but my

53:36

partner lisa is and she she was really um when i found that article about you talking

53:42

i think it was in i don’t know art magazine or something um she was really interested in it

53:51

so you have acres you have a your property is pretty large and you you’ve

53:57

got three sectioned gardens yeah yeah it’s it’s really big fun and

54:06

and happiness for me to to live in a green lung of new brunswick

54:13

and occasionally go for a bathing hole here he is nearby and if the tide

54:19

is on then the whole village is there and we exchange recipes for

54:25

how can you preserve beans and peas and

54:31

that’s that’s our our social and cultural exchange which is great

54:38

when did you do these anna when did you do these oh 2018. which one yeah

54:46

these are gardens but this is an ongoing project because i always have

54:52

drawings about flowers i i i draw flowers very often even weeds

55:01

and house plants whatever it’s in hand and i have tons of drawings and if i

55:10

want to do something and let’s see the background needs some

55:17

some flowery tea is then i always find something

55:24

what i can use from my own diary of of plants and and and flowers

55:32

and vegetation and not much only model but but lots of

55:39

greens and stuff so do you so so this is permanent

55:45

always do flower drawings and sometimes i embroider them sometimes

55:51

i may collage them so i i use it as a as a as a project

55:59

do you consider them do you consider them decorative

56:04

as opposed to your i yeah maybe i i never

56:11

thought for that and thanks for remind me because i i’m working against the

56:17

decorativity all the time i my biggest fan baby say i am a decorative artist or

56:26

something but these i don’t know i i hope to believe

56:32

this is multi-layered enough not to be so so nice and pretty

56:38

and decorative but

56:44

but but the monsters and the fires and the dangers are fit so much better for this

56:52

contemporary world than the flowers i know and fit for men better than

57:00

women you know more gardeners and enthusiastic flower lovers

57:09

so um but it’s it’s leave with me so how much time do we have

57:17

how are we doing here shawna i’m here um i why don’t you go

57:24

for another 10 minutes or so and then we can wrap up okay um

57:30

let’s see oh i know that you’ve been asked this

57:37

before about what’s well you know what where do you see your um artwork going but i’m just

57:44

you know from what you’ve said about some of these pieces i’m just wondering and the the last one the

57:52

gardens i’m just wondering if you have any kind of attraction to abstraction

57:59

like doing i i tend to be yes

58:06

um i mean non-objective i think my work

58:12

study hey i i have a group exhibition nine

58:17

in montreal i can’t pronounce the name of the show because it’s the other lawrence

58:25

jonker’s gallery and they’re working with obstructions and one of my work is there and

58:33

and the chord drawings was what i did absolutely starting point with my kids

58:40

called drawings so it’s meant absolutely um

58:45

for obstruction and they use it as a piece for the abstract exhibitions but

58:53

but i am more figurative than abstract for sure i i excites me better if

59:00

some figures there because you know why because the storytelling element of my

59:08

activities are really strong and that’s why it

59:15

goes with the figures better than that and many quotations from cultures even

59:22

the if i use the writing then then it’s

59:28

important to try things and

59:33

i know that i’m this is just um another thing another area but it

59:40

i somewhere i’ve read that you said or you said on a video

59:46

that you’re not hungarian and then you ask in a canadian which is kind of the dilemma

59:52

of um you know many immigrants who contend with life and experience in two countries so

1:00:00

and you asked where is my true self and what is it that i want to have um

1:00:08

it seems like you have a lot you know but um but what you’re expressing is sort of a

1:00:13

melancholia and it’s um deeply embedded in a

1:00:18

in your your your thinking about the human condition and its relationship to

1:00:23

nature and the precarious state of the planet and um uh yeah

1:00:31

it’s kind of unfair to to to kind of unload all this stuff on you but um

1:00:37

because i you know i don’t know if i’d like it if somebody did it on me but um where do you think

1:00:44

you are right now in [Music] in terms of your

1:00:51

[Music] satisfaction and

1:00:57

is permanent danger a good uh description of how you feel is it anx anxiety and

1:01:07

and happiness and pessimism

1:01:14

uh thanks for asking me because probably it would be the most interesting

1:01:20

conversation topic if we should continue this this talk forever because i

1:01:28

i would be really interested about your opinion of your identity

1:01:35

but you but you was born here you are in an easier shoes i am i am

1:01:42

not that easy and recently i just

1:01:48

just can’t add every kind every form of nationalism or or

1:01:57

ah i i even don’t have words for that i i really bothers me and

1:02:04

people are just cannot focus to to the important things what we need to

1:02:11

solve you know in instead they generate an artificial barriers and artificial

1:02:23

elent it i don’t know what is it so so these are these are not a hearty way to solve many

1:02:29

of those problems what what is really urgent to to solve

1:02:35

and i am in this moment not very happy hungarian

1:02:41

i am a lot happier canadian for sure because of because of the

1:02:46

politics because of the politics in hungary yeah and and even you know those countries

1:02:54

which which are big big history and big parts they are very loaded

1:03:00

and it’s need to solve and clean up the thoughts and thinkings of

1:03:07

the of the of the society’s head

1:03:12

and in canada it’s it seems life easier because of that

1:03:19

so so it’s a young country and and has problems of course a lot of problems

1:03:25

but not loaded that much than europe i don’t know it has japan but it’s not easy that also

1:03:33

i believe but the traditional um aspects of hungarian culture um

1:03:39

especially as it comes as it’s um embodied in um embroidery the textile work is still

1:03:48

really important to you i mean the whole hungarian culture let’s see i follow the literature and

1:03:56

and poems and music and and all aspects of cultural life in

1:04:03

hungary which is really important and and rich but

1:04:10

yeah and you you draw on them for your work too yeah so i i i have no attempt to

1:04:18

to distance myself from that part of my hungarian identity

1:04:23

identity but certain politics and everyday solutions are

1:04:31

just working against my soul completely you know yeah i just thought

1:04:39

of shelly nero you know the the mohawk artist who um because she she uses um

1:04:47

um beadwork design native beadwork designs and puts that into some of her paintings

1:04:54

and and around some of her framing you know and something but they’re very contemporary

1:05:00

works photographs and anyway that’s um just thought of that

1:05:07

yes yeah probably i can understand very much

1:05:14

those those fellow artists who whose identity is came up recently

1:05:23

in this country because because i have experience in hungary with

1:05:32

with playing with minority groups and and pushed on things what it

1:05:39

shouldn’t be and so so the history is of

1:05:45

a crueler game and and they always seems to seems to play with us

1:05:53

and and it’s it’s not fair and um but but we do what we can

1:06:01

right and we do things with our own tools and we try to be to be happy and try to be

1:06:10

try to be helpful or what we can do and we’re only artists

1:06:18

yes yes no no more than our kids but it’s sometimes it’s

1:06:24

more than anything else don’t forget that is there another slide

1:06:29

we can go to or another image [Music] that’s enough that’s my back

1:06:36

[Laughter] oh yeah so do you do do you use those

1:06:41

those embroidery hoops to do all those big paintings yes that’s my favorite food but this is the

1:06:48

the available biggest and i can see that surface and that that large

1:06:55

surface in the same time so then you move you move around yes yes i i move around

1:07:03

when i finished one new loop for whole circle then

1:07:09

the another circle is coming and at the end i will be surprised it is so

1:07:16

bad or so good or the on other side is better than the first one

1:07:22

so many many things come into play when then when i investigate what i did for

1:07:29

uh for a whole for a year so you must know all those different stitches right i

1:07:35

mean i mean i would assume that you would know because when i did my little research online i

1:07:41

there was a there was a thing outline stitch running stitch french knot stem

1:07:49

you did your homework you did your homework bryce

1:07:56

yeah but did you do you know how to do all those i learned how to do that but i i

1:08:03

stick with one and that’s probably they gave your name on a tourma

1:08:09

[Laughter] because i stubbornly just stick with one

1:08:17

kind okay um so what’s happening now

1:08:26

i wanted to just let you know that shelly nero was actually on tonight oh she was listening she is listening so

1:08:34

what should we say about her i don’t know welcome shelly she’s wonderful

1:08:41

um we have a couple of questions um so from brian uh black and white works

1:08:49

are such a departure from your complex and animated works is this something that you will revisit

1:08:56

yes i i do and it’s uh paving the way into a new route which will be black and

1:09:02

white work and i really really um my ambition to

1:09:08

put up on the exhibition with black and white forms nothing else those backhand black and white

1:09:14

embroideries and i have a couple of pieces and am working on

1:09:20

a body of work to to complete the third so what they will they all be um shapes

1:09:28

shapes yeah shapes yeah interesting shapes contacting

1:09:36

each other so in conversation with each other and in a very very very balanced surface

1:09:43

black and white somewhat so tracy has a question about

1:09:50

um you had mentioned that florals might not be seen as contemporary within a male view

1:09:56

can you explain that i have three three male around me

1:10:03

and i am the only woman and i talking my through my experience you know

1:10:10

the the the man would naturally faster harder and

1:10:17

not that soft but what the women were that’s that’s the given thing i they are

1:10:24

fantastic they are gentle souls but their pacing is different than mine

1:10:30

and i have i have love for the flowers and they have love for

1:10:36

for harder toys play so somehow that’s that that’s

1:10:43

my nothing nothing else just just the observation of

1:10:48

my speech it’s nothing yes and philip has a question of any plans for maritime

1:10:54

show well it’s actually opening at the owens art gallery at mount allison after it closes um in in guelph

1:11:01

so you can you can dart across the border pathway there to get you

1:11:06

to get to um to sackville so that looks like all the questions um

1:11:12

i’d like to thank everyone sarah did you want to say anything before i wrap up

1:11:17

no not well yes i do no of course i do

1:11:24

[Music]

1:11:30

i agree with anna and i really respect and thank you for that homework you did from stem stitch to

1:11:36

recent interviews digging deep into your memory banks for

1:11:43

your time together in in hamilton um what did you say on a 30

1:11:48

something 33 years when we set foot to hamilton well you were both

1:11:55

babies then yeah very active and young artists tried brides

1:12:02

yeah still growing up and still lots lots more to come so

1:12:07

again deep investment in this evening um very generous um i wanted to to make sure that we

1:12:13

we said that and your inclusion of the mention of of other artists of course is always

1:12:19

close to all of our hearts and together you pulled you pulled various art worlds and

1:12:27

different times uh in into one hour and a half i think just on um just on target

1:12:34

um so again thank you so much with gratitude thank you thank you

1:12:41

for making me this two fabulous shows and i cannot see that you know it’s just heartbreaking

1:12:49

everything anna hasn’t yet seen the art gallery of guelph exhibition and never did see the show at the textile museum

1:12:56

of canada i saw it good ah oh my goodness i’m

1:13:04

i’m green with andy um lisa has a question

1:13:10

uh just not sure how to

1:13:16

lisa are you able to put that in the chat actually

1:13:24

uh yeah kirsty bell says we’ll have to have an extra celebration at the owens in that case of course yes we’re hoping to have a

1:13:32

closing actually in in september at the art gallery of guelph so um we also have um on the first floor the

1:13:40

other exhibition that is beside this is by a young artist named emanuel osaphor who was born in nigeria which is also

1:13:47

about gardens so um it’s actually wonderful pairing um and we hope that uh every oh lisa

1:13:55

dale says she also saw the show at the textile museum wonderful so congratulations anna um and thank you

1:14:01

all bryce that was amazing amazing dialogue um and again as sarah said thank you for

1:14:06

your research and and for your really sort of thoughtful and generous um conversation

1:14:12

and thank you sarah for curating and and sharing this with us

1:14:17

an honor and we look forward to seeing you all in one place in ideally september

1:14:24

so um take care everyone i hope you all have a wonderful evening and rest of the week

1:14:30

um and i think this is uh really a testament to what um the creative practice can do so what

1:14:38

art making can do so it’s really uh amazing um material to walk away with and to keep in our minds

1:14:44

for a while take care everyone and thank you all for joining us and

1:14:49

thank you participants thank you all for joining us all right take care bye good night good

1:14:56

night thank you good night everybody thank you

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