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welcome to diversify with the art bank and canadian culture i’m pat sullivan public programs officer

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here and i’m up here to give you an outline of our event tonight

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diversified the art bank and canadian culture relates to our exhibition the

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art bank in the 21st century of which you’ll hear more a bit later this evening

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our exhibition features a selection of contemporary work acquired by the canada

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council art bank since 2001 and reflects the impact of two special

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calls for works by first nations inuit and ethnically diverse artists

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the art bank’s mandate for acquisition is excellence representation and

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rentability considering this our panel tonight will discuss cultural

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diversity interdisciplinarity in contemporary art practices

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and the efficacy of government policies in these areas in a moment i’ll introduce the moderator

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barbara wheeler who will in turn introduce our panel ashok mathur

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andrea potoman and brendan fernandez we’re very grateful that they have all

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agreed to participate each panel will give a brief presentation and then we’ll be opening

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up barbara will open it up to questions and dialogue with the audience

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you’ll notice that we are filming this event so we do need our questioners to

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use microphones when you ask a question and we’ll make those available to you

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after this program wraps up we can all enjoy the reception to celebrate the art

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bank exhibition at which point jan allen our acting director will offer some

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remarks barbara manili is a visual artist whose side responsive work engages the

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landscapes and histories of mainstream canadian nation barbary is taught at the university of

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virginia the first nations university of canada and currently teaches at queens where

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she is also a doctoral candidate in cultural studies i’d like to thank barbara for arranging

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an ashok magura’s vision and for approaching the arts center for collaboration on this so please join me

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in welcoming barbara manila

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thanks very much pat nice introduction sounds fancy um

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so hi i’m margaret as pat said um i’d like to begin now by acknowledging and

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giving thanks to the shawnee and the people and the territory that hosts us here today

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um thanks also via the ringtone arts center and our other funding partners uh the principal’s development fund

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visiting scholars program department of art history and art conservation the cultural studies program department of

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film media queen’s human rights and equity offices interdisciplinary studies

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and society professional and graduate students it’s my honor and my delight to welcome

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you all here today and to introduce our panelists andrea patona

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is an assistant professor in the criticism and curatorial program at ocad university in toronto

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she is the former curator of contemporary art at the ottawa art gallery and has worked in vancouver as

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co-director of art speed gallery and in peterborough as the artistic director of

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heart space gallery fatoma holds a doctorate degree in cultural studies and critical pedagogy

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from the university of georgia um

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michelle mother is associate professor in the department of visual and performing arts

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english and journalism and communication and new media at thompson rivers university

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he holds a canada research chair in cultural and artistic inquiry

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and is the director of the center for innovation in culture and arts in canada

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ccap mother’s cultural and academic practice

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is wide-ranging and investigates new models of artistic research and interdisciplinary collaboration

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um brendan born in kenya of indian descent brandon fernandez immigrated to canada

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in 1989. he completed the independent study program at the whitman museum of

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american art in 2007. and earned his mfa in 2005 from the

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university of western ontario and his bfa in 2002 from new york university

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he has participated in numerous residency programs has exhibited widely nationally and internationally widely

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common national and internationals he was the recipient of a new

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commission’s project through art in general in new york in 2010 and was the ontario representative for

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the 2010 soviet art award so thanks everyone for coming it’s a delight to see you all again to meet you all again

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so we’re going to start and he’s going to join me up here

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some questions

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thanks for coming out and um i’d like to thank the organizers of the event

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um today what i’d like to do is to talk to you about what i would call a history of a

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president in relation to issues of revolution i put into county council

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much of my observations that i’ll be tonight it’s based on my research

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on richmond implementation policies at the canada council between 1989 and 1999.

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um i’d also like to um

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having said that i would like to talk about the fact that this diversification

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really took place started in 2001 and the second purchase took place in 2008.

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so some questions about what that says about the ways in which rich equity

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actually gathered or galvanized or at the council

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so i’d like to make a couple of observations or work through a couple of ideas in this presentation

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first i’d like to say that the process of racial equity formation at the canada council in

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was a messy one and a really contentious one and issues arose around the framework on

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which policy should be grounded the contention is really about the framework whether or not it ought to be

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a multicultural slash diversity paradigm or whether that was concerned with

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anti-racism i just want to bring up a slide

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the ideologies that grounded or and i think still grounds or circumscribes the

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exclusion of racialized efforts and aboriginal artists and cultural producers from the narratives

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of the canadian nation so start the history of the presidential

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ambassador the report being explicit the hard piece

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and work described the cultural expression products in various racial and ethnic groups in canada in the 1950s

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by privileging art forms based on european traditions the commissioner’s uh discussion on indian art as you can

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see up here and the cultural contributions of groups from other european ethnicities illustrate what i think is

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racist thinking behind how first nations cultures were viewed by their commissioners

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um the obliteration of apple general art i believe from legitimate legitimate categories of canadian art permitted uh

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the commissioners as well as um canadian citizens to imagine and produce

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reference that gesture back to european conventions and logics and in a way i’d

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say that that type of logic created a space in which um sectors were hampered

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by the ghosts of the first nations ever and this obliteration also suggests

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to me that modern culture contemporary are totally shaped by values

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of the european and those values were really you know become a universalist understanding

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of um culture and one that tried to transcend issues of difference

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it also allowed for a real deepening of european culture and art as a dominant

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in a matter of what i would call an and folks like for code called the order of cultural things

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so we’ll start with that as i believe as the grounding is a really um deeply

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uh forming the ways in which we think about who produces our famous country

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um the massive commission also went on to state that they were really quite impressed

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with uh the artworks of other europeans primarily in terms of

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things like genres like ballerina and uh paul gilroy in his running talks

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about where the sociological thinking comes from he argues that blacks and first nations

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uh subjects are seriously positioned in relation to the realm of rna

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gilroy argues that europeans have imagined and constructive blacks as infantile unable to move from the stage

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of objection to abstraction while first nations peoples are disappeared from the modern

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era and encoded in a time before history which means that first nations african people do not make ireland

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at the time these ideas were circulating

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uh canadian immigration and law acts actually did not permit or did not favor

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immigrants from non-european backgrounds so you can understand what the demographics of canada looks like at

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that time so you know move on from that just to set

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the stage where i believe much of our thinking about food produces canadian

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culture and who actually narrates the nation visually

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where that kind of thinking is grounded let me talk about a little bit about

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culture representation i talk about the years from the 80s to the 90s

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so the minute he saw a wave of advocacy and lobbying activities that were driven

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primarily by independent first nations artists artists of color and social workers right across the country

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artists of color and first nations artists formed coalitions and organized separately to advance their cause

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cultural producers of color and first nation their first nations counterparts were demanding that cultural institutions including the

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canada council addressed ameliorate inequities in the cultural sphere questions were being posed about who

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produced art um what it meant to be canadian uh what defined artistic merit as well

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as he was being privileged as creators of canadian art and culture and so we have people like mermaid and

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phillip richard fund to name a few who are actually writing

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but also um engage in activist activity that

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advocates the activities at the canada

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so in short i think those ensure the received notions of canada’s commitment to cultural diversity in the arts that

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emerge for bicultural

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again racialized artists requested cultural institutions for their exclusion they’re really questioning um

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for the racism that kept them outside of the frame of canada

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um artists of color really the tenants of trudeau’s multiculturalism

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policies of the 60s and 70s that especially participation did not come to

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fruition why didn’t it come to fruition artists of color and first nations

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artists and cultural producers were drawn from the well of multicultural funding early from the secretary of

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state um citizenship and multicultural branches and branch and later from the department

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of canadian heritage for ethnocultural activities these activities became

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artists of color came to realize that the criteria for funding was limited in the definition of what it meant to be

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from a specific specific ethnocultural community so in a sense what was being

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funding is what we co-funded was the sovereign debts of these of these

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agricultural communities so this is what really spurred on what i in

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my own research called the diversity years i stated before between 1989 and

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1999 so over the period of the early 80s a

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significant mother transformation was taking place again in relation to its practices of

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inclusion uh women were being being included in juries

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um spread on by um rashford’s movements of feminism

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so at the time we saw women participating in juries and at the same time we had the uh mom

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pervert report that really um placed diversity

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into the framework of the canada council and in that report diversity is referred

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to as the distinctness of cultural and geographical regions in canada but also to

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ethnicities and races other than english and french the council positioned diversity

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the council’s position on diversity was really released clearly sort of clearly steered by the

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institutions that was clearly served by the institution’s relationship to the government earlier on the uh

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the implementation of the multiple act of 1989 but also other acts like the

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employment equity act um these really because the county council is an honorable spend agency

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um of the government these these acts came to impact directly on the council’s activities

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equity became one of the council’s primaries in the late 80s and a commitment was made to serve

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disabled minority artists and first nations artists because again uh discussions within council

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and for its needs for policy was being spared as well by

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and say we were going to actually include diversity in our policies it was

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a kind of push full from from the community as well as an internal

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um shift at the council all things uniquely necessary for this

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implement for the implementation of racial and putting policies so in 1989

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first greatly caring was um hired as the first racial equity um

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coordinator and council and at that time he drew together a group of uh senior

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artists racialized artists to serve as the first racial equity

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advisory committee joyce evans the director of council as well as very instrumental in

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i guess what i’d like to point out as well as part of my discussion on part of my talk

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is that racial equity at the council was and i think is still driven very much by the will of individuals

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policy itself has not actually pushed things forward its commitment of primarily senior

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management and directors that actually allows for equity to actually have some teeth and also

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to actually coordinate that purchase and work directly with the equity office

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the other thing that took place within this messiness of canada council development and racial

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equity was a lot of discussion and actually tension again around as i said the frameworks out of

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which racial equity should take place so multiculturalism

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was seen as diluting issues that needed to be addressed really issues of race

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issues of racism um i’ll just read from here so members of

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the committee engage in discussion on the terms of multiculturalism and the importance of

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incorporating an anti-racist framework within the firm within the work of the canadian council

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and to raise this principle that practices developed in the context of grassroots organizing

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challenge the pluralistic notions of what we’ve what we understand to be

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diversely what it does it really actually engages issues of color

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and issues around racism and its effect on racialized bodies

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that way of thinking and that paradigm is dropped primarily because joyce evans

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saw it as being counterproductive to the board of the canada council really accepting the shift of the

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council so the ideas around anti-racism and the redistribution of

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of our resources was actually swept to the side and i believe that this actually continues to

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haunt us today in relation to issues of equity um issues of true change in relation to

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understanding minorities and the kinds of exclusions that take place

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within the canada council within the larger societal for the work of it affects cultural producers who are

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non-poor people um i think i’ll leave it there but what i’d

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like to say is i’d like to talk about the ways in which this idea

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of uh race and racism have been um

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reinvigorated already through this discussion that mark mayor had in relation to the purge establishment

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so say a new debate has

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debate is this idea of excellence and ways in which excellence is actually

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dredged up to actually exclude so

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in mark mayer’s discussion what we see again is the question about who produces

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art in this country um and i think it’s been uh

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the concept of excellence is being deployed as a mention to talk about what is good

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and it invokes a register that really actually resides within a european

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western art paradigm that has attitudes a real exclusionary

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accident and an exclusionary what becomes clear from the cbc report

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which i’ll explain um in a second is that mainstream cultural institutions such as the

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national gallery they don’t just always say about the national gallery mainstream cultural institutions

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um remain relatively untouched by the racial equity policies at the canada

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council so i know it hasn’t quite filtered down certain institutions take it up while

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others choose to turn away from it the council although it’s led the way

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for the opening up of other art forms and other communities um

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there’s still issues particularly around the fact psychologists state that we’ve had two purchases one

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in 2001 and one in 2008 that i believe were really kind of more individually

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driven based on the will of a few people so the question for me is how do we allow

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how do we uh create policy that matters as a collective robertson’s uh

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kind of this book god refers to policy does matter but how

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um the problem with multiculturalism and the multicultural is still strongly debated

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um in the current moment and it has implemented sorry

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implications for the continued understanding of racial and community environments

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based on the histories of canadian settlement i would suggest that we need to be canada as a country of many

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centers and many margins

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which in turn produces a diverse diver diverse range of cultural expressions

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with specific geographical and regional spaces i think this way a view of the canadian nation would unhinge from the

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notion of a unified canadian art that can be produced allowing specificities

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of our culture to take shape in a more robust form in a way i think i’m

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advocating for a form of originalism that shaped my cannabis growing cosmopolitan

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populations and sensibilities and in a way also extending

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what nancy fraser’s argument on resource redistribution is that if we actually

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shifted our understanding of canadian art then we would actually place equality and justice at the center

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of this debate so we move away from the university paradigm we’d understand this as a

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social justice issue and think through

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ways in which policy can assist us um

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first of all uh i want to thank uh barbara particularly for um for inviting me for this visiting

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scholar um week and it’s been quite it’s my last

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uh unusual for me is that we actually drove across the country this time in vancouver uh we’re gonna go to

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sault ste marie and then coming to them so uh to the train here so i’ve been on the ground the entire time and one thing

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that occurred to me and as i was looking at the first slide that i figured out

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around the uh death of uh the death of aboriginal arabs to recognize

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the lands we traverse and what we’re on all the time one of our experiences we went to

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um i worked in campus right now i went to uh uh there for the first day of the night

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i was met with a number of uh artists but also um

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that’s it that’s the territory i’m working on now and i’m cognizant of that and from there we went and the next day

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we uh we got as far as uh as brooks but before we go out there we stopped at old sun community college which used to be

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also residential school that was the first place i ever taught when it was a community

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outreach program for the university of calgary i just got my master’s degree and i was in the space

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and we talked the other day about the um the you know reading group that i was part

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of the inhabitation of these spaces by the ghosts the hauntings in the past and it was true you go to the old sun and on

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the top there uh something odd about this place through the basement and it was one of the things that struck me with the bars and the windows which of course

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are steps that essentially keep people out people breaking in but also this deep imprisoning prison factor to

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uh broken urinals the uh feelings of laws inside what did they say um so driving across the country

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realizing reversing aboriginal territory every step of the way some trees in the country are always on it and

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and what does that mean in terms of our discursive relationship we have with the land and what does that mean

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in terms of artistic production because if art is a reflection and a manifestation of who

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we are we are embodied in the space i have not not involved those it’s been multiple in

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a month anyway um i also want to thank uh andrew

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for that uh wonderful um uh introduction and always listening to you to see the

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intellectual threads been brought in to a place at least much easier for me to speak because i have not really the

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substance to deliver so i’ll just be having some fun and and brendan will follow me he’ll also have a lot of

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substance and aesthetic i actually applied that i’m right in the middle because

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because this is when people can get a little bit of a break check your taxes

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i’m going to start by talking about elevators in

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advance so i’m going to be there but part of this is a bit of a provocateur kind of thing so you’ll see as i go

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through and i will um i don’t need an apology for it i’m going to acknowledge that as i start because i’m going to

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challenge these questions so three days ago i’m waiting for the

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elevator inside one king west now a business class hotel repurposed from the old and magnificent dominion bank

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the only messages of this previous incarnation are a td atm at the king street exit which i’m pretty sure wasn’t

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there in the original committee today and the underground vault which at one time targeted the variously

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various forgotten names of the bay speed elite and its current plane to fame no less than three hollywood films have

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used that subterranean apartment of reinforced steel and glasses special sets anyway i’m waiting for the elevator and

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a voice shouts out to distant colleagues hey not all bankers are bad

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followed by the owner of the voice a sharply dressed woman who is all base street historism racing up to join me

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and unnaturally best business guy as we enter the elevator she does a quick assessment of her travel companions and

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rendering me unnaturally attired in these same black jeans and a leather jacket which has

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basically put into her office right now and uh and freight line and it’s more or

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less less equivalent i feel more or less equivalent to the elevator paneling in the invisibility there and she turns

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to the third among us and she says did you catch what i said not all anchors are bad with such familiarity that at first i

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assume they’re old friends or ego acquaintances at the same conference but clearly that’s a mystery

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and that’s about all and that is all about how we see how we read how we construct realities in front of us

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mr natalie dress acknowledges her statement permitting her to reintroduce introduce herself as one of those not

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bad bankers and he’d refer himself as some banking or hedge fund associated i

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always use hedge funds when he’s an example

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hedgehog so we travel to our various ascendancies

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and i depart on the of course lower floor left up under the articulation of value-written bankingness and what i can

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make of the mix so what is a bank supposed to do and if bankers can be not all bad can banks

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themselves be up to some good a bank i’m told that financial considerations takes your money and pays

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you a small percentage for your troubles and it loans you money and charges you a significantly higher percentage for his

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drugs it trades in money for the idea of monuments is often just figured on a

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ledger not banking observed looms in your pocket with it then an art bank

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since 1972 the county council artifact has traded in art in a matter of speech

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although instead of citizens depositing art into its vaults these works are purchased outright to be lent out rent

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out to various government convinced and business deficits of the nation state unlike financial versions the arc bank

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despite being a fine model of exchange has few of his executives on the forum’s most wealthy places and his depositors

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the artists are similarly unlikely to summer on the riviera while their heart rolls in the revenue uh friendly excuse

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of course is to focus on exchange and dissemination

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not these gadgets get rid of schemes okay so it’s abandoned in a certain way now i’m going to go to what with janna

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knights and about the arc which was constructed under the banner of democracy and democratization that’s

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an interesting concept i don’t know if i’ll touch on here but hopefully the questions we can and entwines the mandate rights of

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excellence representation and rentability uh in other words the art bank collects works that is careless work that’s

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perceived as strong using the cannon council peer review concept

31:10

attempts to create a cross-section of artistic production in a diversified population and finally it’s a work that

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the aforementioned denizens will want to borrow for their safety walls that’s a very important thing i’m going to talk

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in a moment about that desire now four years ago

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i’ve been 45 years six years ago i suppose they are thinking that out the call that the certain actors referred to um i thought it was the first special

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call that i you know you’re telling me that it’s the second time they’ve done this uh specifically a shout out to racialized artists who were

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underrepresented in this vault about a third of this acquisition of 55 pieces was shown in the exhibition

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descriptively titled dives for art strategy and seduction by canadian artists and culturally diverse

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communities in words from the collections of mechanical art mouthful and no less than the governor

32:00

general’s official residence enrique paul the exhibition was described as a window

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onto the intermingling of cultures in canada through their works the artists of african asian middle eastern or latin

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american origin compare their cultural heritage with western society and its values while exploring current trends

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individual arts um again that statement is a challenging one a bit problematic but the thing

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about it is that it’s it’s there’s an attempt at something

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it was a watershed moment for the art bank both the acquisition and the exhibition

32:36

under the eye i’ve been governor general michelle john we had a spectacular and media rich opening with

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all the accoutrements of such a gala flaming shrimp decking from desserts

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and all the brown artists weren’t able to consume i say this playfully like lightly and

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without intending to derive or dismiss the intentionality of the key players

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that again is referred to the council equity office the art bank the governor general’s office

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like any curatorial project diaspora addressed a perceived absence applied a

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corrective style to the canadian art world inclusive of both creators and consumers and i’m not using consumers

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here in a pejorative way even if certain gatekeepers and power brokers of this artistic economy was

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somewhat suspect and we all remember the the mark mayor’s one we just saw

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dubious assertion that sites such as the national gallery saw only excellence through a colorblind lens suggesting to

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the wider community that once the uppity color folk produced a significant artist or two the

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national gallery would be happy to show them i’m going to return to this notion of consumption and artistic integrity in a

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moment the first this is my theoretical id side discussion uh earlier today i gave a talk in a

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graduate class in sociology here in queens talked by dr sarita

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and it touched on the complexities of borders authoritarian state race migration terrorism and in that

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discussion i raised an important polemic by edward zaid who wrote this

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i’m going to be slowly because it’s partly quote partly in paraphrasing to get the whole intent in here

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the intellectuals is dialectically oppositionally to it role

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uncover and elucidate the contest between a powerful system of interests and less powerful interests threatened

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with restoration silence incorporation or extinction by the powerful

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to challenge and defeat both an imposed science and the normalized quiet of unseen power wherever and whenever

34:41

possible so essentially the quote it says he’s talking about website he talks about

34:46

speaking truth to power right to push back and to move it at any particular moment now he’s talking about

34:52

intellectuals he speaks of the academic community well i’d like to expand that argument

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then in this new millennium artists are candy and arguably should be emissaries

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of sociopolitical dialogues enticing engagement in ideas and teasing out possibilities for living well in the

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cultural world we’ve inhabited i use that term living well the sense that we

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cannot be um inhabitants in this in the culture we have unless we can be comfortable in

35:22

that space and to be comfortable in that space often means a type of a disturbance and disruption

35:27

so i’m going to return to john allen’s statement the art bank was first conceived as an ingenious means of

35:33

bringing arts to masses through placement in federal government offices and that today disciplined by

35:38

operational structures of financial self-sufficiency new works entering the collection straddled the emergent

35:43

critical practices representations of national identity and decor enabling the

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art bank to continue showcasing canada’s most accomplished art play artists and workplaces across the country

35:54

so this brings me full circle to the notion of consumption it’s not enough of course for the art

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bank to purchase words that the peer reviewer is determined to be critically important and worthwhile

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these words must be principled okay that is consumable that is they must fit into a national

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imaginary and indeed the art bank has had to dispose of the past converted in the contention so a work that is deemed

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unsupported by this renting community it hasn’t been shown so it’s been donated to my understanding to private

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collections

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so i post this as a problem because as we know from studying market economies we produce based on what

36:45

demand dictates the problem with this in the context of art particularly in this context of the

36:51

science program that i’ve just read into related theories is that in order to develop a culture of

36:56

critical inquiry that challenges disturbs disrupts and basically puts the screws to the status quo

37:04

artists and intellectuals have to produce outside the economy of supply demand consumption

37:09

or bringing down the house of capitalism is too severe challenge we have to figure out ways to create a demand for

37:15

those same destructive behaviors and you see what i’m talking about here is kind of sea change we have to create an

37:22

environment not where um where it simply becomes an economical

37:27

decision to make us make that type of equity argument but and suspense

37:34

we have to be able to figure out a systemic shift and

37:39

a deep in the way now i’m going to end here with a few uh

37:44

primers this for the provocateurs and a few primers for the arctic uh possibility for the artifact and for

37:50

cultural institutions in general as we barrel forth into the future one

37:57

we have to we have to develop new forms and new models of education and edification

38:03

connection public has to be served by recognizing that there is a lack in our wants our collective wants and desires

38:09

so we have to nurture a desire to create the impossible now what that means is

38:16

we’re living in a cultural moment right now where where we’re being told what’s

38:22

what’s possible and we have to go some of the some of the latin american leaders have talked about demanding the

38:28

impossible you look for that which you don’t think is

38:34

and that’s what we have to do particularly from perspectives of uh racialization queer identity moving

38:40

things past and into the national management which is part of the fact that’s the best the first

38:45

the first thing right now you notice i’m saying something nicely there right away

38:51

that’s uh we’ll come to that and actually i’m sure we’ll give us all right

38:59

second attitudinal shifts now i mentioned doctor survives about before we discuss and it’s worth noting

39:05

some of you may have seen she was on the panel on monday on cbo discussing the dirt of diversity on expert panels on

39:12

the news and analysis shows this is one of those classic tv shows they’re they’re being self-practicing why aren’t

39:17

we more diverse let’s bring in people who tell us why we’re not diverse and that’s the one show right

39:22

so the host kept returning to the quantifiable okay the acceptable sandwiches and serena insisted that this

39:29

was the wrong approach she said we don’t need more numbers per se now this is part of the the system of

39:36

the running interview who has as the host said okay so say the population is 22

39:48

we need to think differently to desire diversity because because it reflects all we think and we stand for not

39:55

because we’re trying to balance the race letter that’s because it’s who we are collected so when we see this innovation we have

40:01

to racialize the communities uh it shouldn’t be up to average institutions

40:06

there’s got to be if we are going to talk about an actual national breeding instead of the nation’s state problem

40:13

state we have to find ways for us as citizens to to change the way we can change the way we think about the nation

40:20

which is again it’s an excellent task and the third and last thing that i’m going to mention here

40:26

is we have to get this art banked or otherwise into a larger spectrum and sector of the main public

40:35

as we know a lot of i i’m not exactly clear on exactly the world like the parkland pieces are placed right and my

40:41

understanding is much of them go through maturing these missions uh federal offices government offices and

40:47

and private offices um but that doesn’t really reach a large

40:53

sector of human population so even if you look at something like artists by sanders now they’re often in the less transient more socially direct sides of

41:00

town their audiences are often not happy in those same places in other words art remains

41:06

still in this day and age of soldiers uh for the verb elite to some degree the

41:12

purview of combat field and we have to figure out how to get this word from talking about hard drive work but also

41:17

the work to be introduced for any other into the eyes souls and consciousnesses of masses

41:24

to do less to carry on as we have to serve us all so this is this is the biggest challenge how do we get art into

41:31

the hands and minds of the masses and that’s uh that’s a tricky one there are places that are doing it doing really

41:36

well those communities are often serving uh even for themselves which is a great thing right don’t try

41:43

that but what happens to the what happens to most of the work that we see in the gallery here today you know who

41:48

is going to see and how is it going to be seen so my final my final statement those my

41:54

three uh movements i suppose we’ll talk about them later so let’s examine this it’s true that not

42:01

all bankers are bad that’s only because we work to make it so it’s not happenstance it’s the product

42:08

of hard work diligence and delivery and in the future of the art bank and the future of artistic practice inside

42:15

and perhaps despite the nation state this is something we have to think about we may be pushing back against this

42:22

notion of uh the state as it produces multiculturalism and i talked earlier

42:27

today about the exportation of navy multiculturalism as a commodity that prevents food for trade

42:34

so we have to be able to push things against despite the nation state and we have to be able to heed our histories

42:39

and pick up the challenges that surround us so i leave you with a statement that the impossible is possible but only if we

42:47

can imagine it so i think i’m going to stop there and hopefully i’ve got time for

42:52

really teasing us some of these possibilities

43:03

thanks so

43:11

i understood a much more from the perspective of a practicing artist one who has lived in space and then

43:16

currently lives between astronomers who are questioning the idea of diversifying what that means for me

43:23

and how i kind of

43:39

talks about the idea of collecting you know sort of creating a canonization for canadian

43:45

contemporary art that is relevant within the context of today and you know as it sort of progresses

43:51

and of course the historical

44:02

it’s going to be preserved and that’s something that’s really important and i think you know when andrew had that slide up and sort of talk about the

44:08

ghosts and shadows and that sort of major thing about you know the dead society and uh but what really sort of

44:14

comes out of this whole thing is this idea of when you play this archive it’s a place of excellence and for me the

44:19

question of accents was something that always

44:34

within diverse fights i feel like that and creates uh that kind of puts things into a different kind of

44:41

context why do we need to have special calls why can’t we then live within this within like imagination

44:47

of you know even think about the is imagination if you think about it involving this you know utopia but again

44:53

these are the things that are things of imagination but then why do you have these calls so within

44:58

the limits of collecting and questioning what this means for me um you know again

45:04

the idea of headphones i’m also thinking of the limits of what we’re calling how do we collect within the card bank and for me

45:12

it thinks you know like my work that’s that’s represented in the art bank is not necessarily

45:19

a full representation of what i do as an artist you know i’ve come from many perspectives and my work can be also

45:25

ephemeral and i feel like you know within that classification of

45:31

wanting something that’s consumable or that is in line with being a commodity an object it then sort of also defines

45:39

what that kind of market is or what kind of automation that we expect to be in the space and so um i’m just requesting

45:46

those those limits in the sense of what has been collected um for me another big

45:52

thing is the dissemination of how does this thing descending you know having the work the exist within

45:58

bureaucratic office spaces that limits the audience and i think for us as artists and for our public you

46:04

know we want work to gain its recognition we want it we want its questions to be asked to by many people

46:12

and for that to create something that allows it to then further develop and i think that that limits and i think it

46:18

also speaks to a certain demographic a certain kind of person that also expects

46:24

heart to look this art to be this way and then when you put it into as we kind of

46:29

call and you have the signifiers of iconography it then sort of gets classified being in that sort of space

46:36

of this being diverse current and i think that that kind of creates further problems within that system

46:42

um i have some questions here about some other notes here about

46:48

the relevance of others kind of spaces that we’re seeing now coming up into the private

46:55

collection the private sort of bank for lack of better words and like what do those do you know those are you know

47:01

individuals are creating their form of their collections that will that

47:08

get you know they’ve just promoted their own money so it’s limiting its own sense but i’m questioning the idea of um

47:16

what happens when these these private spaces now have their collections and then also question the idea of what is

47:22

in the our bank what do those two spaces have in common

47:27

what do those two spaces also uh have that are different um i’m gonna sort of just sort of talk a

47:34

little bit more about the question of diversifying and i feel that

47:40

we’re talking about trying to define something trying to define what we mean to be different what it means to be but

47:46

that’s something that we can’t necessarily do because we’re constantly in for me at least i’m sort of thinking when they’re from the understanding of

47:52

stewart hall that cost identities are something that constantly influx they’re constantly changing so what we are

47:58

trying to find is something that is not static it’s it’s developing it’s changing that’s something that we can

48:04

really keep in mind is that when we have this sort of call for diversity it’s

48:09

something that’s changing and it can be limited to also just cultural identity we need to think about you know uh queer

48:15

when you think about also diversity of material the way art is made

48:33

and sort of questioning of how we diversifying as something that is constantly getting

48:38

completely off the minds so i’ll just sort of stop there but i think involved i think it’d be more interesting to sort

48:43

of chat with everyone i can kind of talk about it so i guess we move on to the next little thing

48:58

thanks so much

49:07

so we’ll sit here and take some questions

49:15

and we’re just gonna give this uh video another go

49:20

um so does anybody have any questions hi hi i’m barbara hi

49:27

um yeah

49:42

and i think andrea when you brought up this idea of this this you know that particular

49:49

moment in time about the discussion of excellence

49:56

um early into that sort of conversation um i think

50:03

uh i think that that you know it’s it’s deeply ironic in a way that we’re

50:10

talking about the arc bank and its attempted diversity when the archive itself

50:18

was the people or its agents its its peer jurors if you like

50:24

we’re changing reasonably frequently and we’re making these decisions

50:29

to purchase this work which many of us thought at the time was

50:34

a much better collection than anything that any other museum had because of the type of work that was

50:41

purchased but within the national gallery within the canada council itself

50:47

the art bank was not considered to be very important because it wasn’t called hearing

50:55

so to add to this notion of excellence there’s also this notion of coherence

51:00

there’s also this notion of what value is as opposed to what belonging is which

51:06

is familiar to everybody who’s taking cultural theory tonight but what is interesting is how difficult

51:14

it is within the visual media routes to get out of these not so much value

51:19

judgments but this axis of culture and richard hill recently wrote an

51:25

article that was infused uh as a columnist an amazing intellectual and writer but

51:32

what’s he writing about he’s writing about how in this one particular show

51:39

there are weak works that are included in the show it’s a soul that’s a show by things aboriginal artists

51:47

and wouldn’t it be better if they’d have kept those works out and the thing is yes

51:54

i’m not going to disagree with that but is that what we’re talking about now you know there’s a hegemony within the

52:00

cultural within the curatorial practice that is very you know that includes all

52:06

of us the fears queer black white whatever

52:11

and that is why it’s refreshing to hear the three of you raise the issues that you are at this moment in time because

52:18

something has slipped and i don’t want to name what it is but something has slipped out of the

52:23

discussion of notions of self-determination that that

52:29

were behind a lot of these moves that you’re talking about historically so i’m really interested to

52:35

my question i guess is for any of you or three of you can you define can you give us a better

52:42

definition of what you think the moment is right now what in your case

52:47

is different from that period of time

52:53

um

53:04

have been thinking about is looking back at that moment and trying to understand

53:10

the kinds of mistakes or not mistakes um our inability to see

53:16

down the road in terms of attendance and paradigms where you say i think what’s at stake right now

53:22

is not the idea of uh issues of representation being represented in these spaces but

53:30

a real look at the kinds of entanglements that we’ve all been engaged in and primarily the

53:35

entanglement that didn’t also allow us to see the ways in which

53:41

our practices or the practices considered other practices are deeply deeply embedded in

53:49

movements like modernism the ways in which we’re embedded right in it we’ve always positioned ourselves outside of

53:55

that space and in a sense reproduce some of these ideas around

54:03

the ability to be able to point out and see diverse works because of the icons

54:11

because of the ways in which the ways in which they operate to gesture back to some place outside your

54:16

destination space but also to gesture back to places or spaces in

54:21

which our entanglements have not been really discussed because we’re deeply embedded

54:27

in each other’s presence and we continue to be embedded in each other’s futures so i think that was a

54:34

bit that’s the kind of discussion we’re involved in now and i think that discussion is a much more productive

54:39

discussion than the ones that took place in the 80s but we needed the discussions ladies we needed a living balance we

54:46

needed you we needed all of those discussions to take place in order to see and to

55:02

thank you very much other questions to comment other questions

55:08

and we do ask that people identify themselves

55:14

hi my name is election and

55:21

so i’m just going to uh characterize some of my

55:30

perceptions of what

55:40

and i i mean i don’t really

55:47

know details of the implementation of fame but

55:54

what i saw was that

56:01

museums in particularly you know important

56:06

public museums such as the nationality of canada or the art gallery of ontario where i

56:15

formally were that where

56:21

artists came into the collection and particularly contemporary art which is

56:26

you know just one you know one very narrow kind of

56:32

sector of what museums are acquiring and pretending and

56:38

preserving that generally you know

56:44

for artwork to be publicly collected

56:50

the artist would have to have attained you know some of the very highest levels of

56:58

accomplishment recognition already and that the purchase

57:04

by one of these major national museums would

57:11

signify already a kind of a

57:17

a long achievement and what the heart bank was doing

57:23

was visiting a full national spectrum of artist studios at

57:30

uh at early levels and

57:36

making the investment in you know an impossible way of acquiring

57:42

people almost all the time directly from the artists

57:49

works that would be held and held partly in trust for them that that is if their

57:57

works were to gain you know special

58:03

recognition value that they could draw those words

58:14

it was in some ways a initiative by

58:19

these officers of the camp council who were you know

58:24

seeing the full range of you know

58:29

artists that were applying for support and aware of you know how many

58:38

artists were working and how little their work was actually being served in any

58:45

kind of recognition and some of the investment also that had been very important in the

58:50

past was that uh it works for kept somewhere that might otherwise have been

58:56

lost but i thought something that brendan definitely were talking about

59:01

your work and and what you prize about that connection to the collections

59:29

entire careers or uh or from sort of pivotal

59:35

phases of their careers those are the only examples of those works that

59:40

exist anywhere so there was you know doing something other than what a

59:46

museum does it wasn’t really conferring recognition you know and

59:52

of course there’s a lot of work that went into these uh purchases that you know has really

59:58

you know collapsed into obscurity yeah and so what you’re describing venice is

1:00:04

and i think it’s it’s come out and what a lot of what we’ve been sharing tonight too is

1:00:09

is the positive ground right the progress the history

1:00:19

you know how you know different this initiative was and then

1:00:25

you know you know as was you know described well it’d be a

1:00:31

kind of a a review of or scrutiny of what

1:00:37

you know role this was actually performing at the same time as the there was a

1:00:44

you know dwindling funds that were being made available for these kind of programs and

1:00:53

conversely a burst of you know of deserving activity and needed support so

1:01:00

i i think that you know these questions were being posted time that

1:01:06

the art bank was faltering and uh and when it did evolve uh

1:01:13

some of its collections okay they went to

1:01:20

uh they were offered not to for any private

1:01:25

private organizations such as the ago is the private organization would you know

1:01:31

whether these would be kept in a in a way that they would get to publish

1:01:38

so this kind of period of questioning uh was you know at a time that they were

1:01:44

needed to redefine themselves and i find what’s particularly striking about this exhibition is that it’s

1:01:52

it’s showing how the arm main willed itself to

1:01:58

to gain relevance and to you know

1:02:04

carry it forward as an example of what needs to be done

1:02:13

and there’s nothing to speed what you’re saying i think the question though that remains and that’s something that i think three of us are trying to address

1:02:19

mr king and we’re charged with this in certain ways is what does the future look like so wade says yeah i’m not

1:02:25

distributing that and not even it’s it’s too easy to go into you know the past and impose a type of fatigue and we do

1:02:32

it because it’s necessary but we’re trying to see what can happen and i think brenton said it’s very interesting we talked about the type of flex and

1:02:38

fluidity right now this is just for artists and for art forms and for participation is for institutions how do

1:02:44

institutions remain fluent and of course institutions are remarkably um likely

1:02:49

fluidity for the most part as their nature so i finally might my question that we spoke talking

1:02:55

about against the notion of the imaginary how do we also try and inflect the canadian

1:03:00

imaginary so that it can be more reduced to this this type of uh diversity or but obviously it’s a

1:03:07

radicalization of the cultural consciousness right how do we do that and that’s something that i think the

1:03:12

institutions precisely because it had a progressive history the art bank and council how can they stay ahead of the

1:03:18

curve right and keep doing the things that they’ve been doing because you know i know i wouldn’t be doing the type of stuff i’m doing without the history of

1:03:24

something like the kind of council but i also know that that doesn’t mean you don’t critique that right because you want to

1:03:30

be able to uh to to change the nature of it i had a student many years ago

1:03:36

an african canadian student who was doing a lot of anti-racism work and people were saying to her she said if you hate this country so much why don’t

1:03:42

you leave and they said she said it’s because i love this country so much that’s why i’m doing work right we we

1:03:48

love it and so we change it and we have to take it up take up that answer and that is the question

1:03:53

we’re all struggling with i think it’s a good question how do we do it

1:04:10

as well i think we also need to be able to disseminate the work outside of the confines because then it allows you know

1:04:17

that question of what we do in this space you know do not become reached not becoming regionalized and within our

1:04:23

country we are compartmentalized i think we need to sort of like allow that

1:04:28

a lot of accessibility to to happen where they have they also have its outside of the space to to to have that

1:04:34

massive people see the work from all places as well that’s really important

1:04:50

which is really trying to um this notion of the nation in the

1:04:56

nation’s face to create a more more of a kind of transnational kind of discussion and to bring down a

1:05:03

border a very specific kind of understanding

1:05:19

are not as fixed as we would like to imagine and these bits that have screened also the kinds of issues we pop

1:05:26

up against in relation to identities

1:05:34

that we actually negotiate um and the kinds of products that come out of those uh relationship to other

1:05:42

spaces outside of this space i think by thinking

1:05:48

and imagining um different types of understandings in relationship to the

1:05:54

nations they will also shift um the kinds of

1:06:03

this worlds for one more question

1:06:12

yeah gary

1:06:31

despite that there are other efforts to get the state involved in cultural production excluding the

1:06:38

efforts of union where you know

1:06:50

but the present circumstances seem to have lots of opportunities to

1:06:56

convince the canadian public that investing in cultural production has all

1:07:01

kinds of benefits not just those commercial benefits

1:07:08

so now instead of making smart objects that are collected

1:07:20

for example you know if there was an art program associated just off the top of

1:07:25

prison reform rehabilitation

1:07:35

um

1:07:41

the arguments to be made you know convincing that they developed

1:07:47

to put work into supporting culture should be made outside of

1:07:53

more conventional ideas

1:08:09

also by higher contexts so it’s much easier

1:08:19

um

1:08:35

these tendencies

1:08:44

ideas of management ideas of efficiency in the production

1:08:50

of objects and efficiencies in the ways in which we engage our citizens and

1:08:57

individuals and who becomes productive members so i really still believe that state needs to be

1:09:03

involved in a way in in terms of uh resourcing culture

1:09:09

or be part of that process i would need to see it to be completely given over towards what i’ll

1:09:16

see as i get a little in which things are about profit are

1:09:21

about creating um using art as a way to actually manage certain groups of people and art as as a

1:09:29

way of producing something that fits into

1:09:38

i think we have time for one more question i’m really sorry i feel like there’s so much we can talk about here

1:09:44

but um we will be able to move this out and continue in our smaller configurations please michelle rose

1:09:53

my you introduced in your term to me which is racialized um what you mean by that and whether

1:10:00

that becomes a more restrictive term than democratization of decentralization

1:10:07

um i use the term marginalized to um really refer to the ways in which you’re rated skeptically reflected on those who

1:10:14

come from other spaces and the ways in which racism produces certain kinds of

1:10:19

pain so just to be really simplified

1:10:26

that as a black person i don’t necessarily walk around thinking of myself as black but that

1:10:32

category and the position that occurs in relation to dominant cultures or

1:10:37

whiteness something that is inflected upon me so the process is working on me as much

1:10:44

as i will pride my own identity too the notion of racialization is one

1:10:51

that comes out of an anti-decentralizing principle so instead of saying a person is the henry says off a certain race

1:10:57

it’s a moment of of becoming so it’s a processional thing so a social condition creates

1:11:05

race or racialized place uh if a person can get born into it so

1:11:10

there’s a poet fred wild from since he writes in the diamond grill and he has his moment beautiful island he says in

1:11:15

until until the mirror never called me a train i wasn’t fine so so what happens is that that officer

1:11:22

being called into into a into being is is part of that racialism and is much

1:11:27

more effective than notions of race because though it is this notion of fluidity um at one

1:11:33

particular point in 1920s and before you know irish figure immigrants were

1:11:38

racialized peoples right they ceased to be racialized and never became racialized as white in a through a

1:11:44

different process right and the same sort of thing is happening we see now different groups moving between those

1:11:50

kind of categories and uh and racialization first differently so and you second part of the question around

1:11:55

democratization i’m not quite sure if i got the equivalents there um

1:12:01

my critique of the the notion of the democratization is simply a very simple one is i don’t know what that means

1:12:07

right i don’t know what people mean by that i suspect parks too a little bit of a neoliberal uh tendency that i’m just

1:12:13

talking about my concern with it is that the notion of democracy that i have from

1:12:21

a theoretical space is different than what i see in a material practice or in the catholics practice where democracy

1:12:26

means it’s almost like a secondhand phrase around a free enterprise or something like that um so that’s the

1:12:32

thing so maybe we can talk after because i could learn a bit of what

1:12:41

so the beginnings of many conversations i hope i encourage you to continue we’re going to

1:12:47

anyway thank you so much

1:12:57

um i’ll just remind you that we do have uh uh invite you all to attend the reception which is just up the other

1:13:04

side of this wall with impressions and as jan allen will be making a few

1:13:09

remarks in that space momentarily and i to wrap up i’d just

1:13:15

like to thank you all for coming and of course thank our speakers for bringing up some really important issues which i

1:13:22

think you’re going to get discussed in the next few in the next while uh

1:13:27

so thank you very much

1:13:36

you

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