#AGAlive | GGArts Series: Michael Fernandes

2021

Join us for another illuminating #GGArts conversation!

Celebrated artist, teacher and mentor Michael Fernandes is featured in ‘Governor General’s Awards in Visual and Media Arts 2020′ at your AGA. In this conversation, Michael discusses the future with his former student, Roy Caussy, also featured at the AGA earlier last year. They dive into broad questions about life, art and what a future in the arts in Canada could be, while considering the current moment of flux we are all experiencing. They work to unpack certain histories that keep us mired in outdated structures and imagine what our collective future might look like.

#AGAlive is presented with the support of the EPCOR Heart + Soul Fund.

This conversation was a live event and some of the themes are political in nature. The AGA supports the artists’ freedom of imagination and expression as well as our audience’s right to form their own opinions and reactions. We aim to spark respectful conversation and dialogue.Join us for another illuminating #GGArts conversation!

Celebrated artist, teacher and mentor Michael Fernandes is featured in ‘Governor General’s Awards in Visual a …

Key moments

View all

Roy Cossey
Roy Cossey
2:40

Roy Cossey

2:40

Michael Fernandez and Roy Cossey
Michael Fernandez and Roy Cossey
3:58

Michael Fernandez and Roy Cossey

3:58

Serving the Impossible
Serving the Impossible
5:48

Serving the Impossible

5:48

What Is Practice within an Artistic Practice
What Is Practice within an Artistic Practice
41:22

What Is Practice within an Artistic Practice

41:22

Master’s Program
Master’s Program
50:15

Master’s Program

50:15

The Begonia
The Begonia
55:47

The Begonia

55:47

Autogenerated Transcript from YouTube (if available)

Use CTRL+F to find key words if it is a longer transcript​.

0:07

good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us for the second artist conversation that we are organizing to complement the

0:13

exhibition of the recipients of the 2020 governor general’s awards in visual and media arts

0:19

that is currently installed at the art gallery of alberta my name is catherine croston and i’m the executive director and chief curator of

0:26

the aga i would like to begin by acknowledging that we are hosting the exhibition and this webinar from treaty six

0:33

territory the traditional land of diverse indigenous peoples including the cree misatapi blackfoot

0:39

nakota sioux iroquois ojibwe soto anishinabe and metis peoples

0:46

we also acknowledge the many indigenous and inuit peoples who make alberta their home today

0:51

this acknowledgement is just a small step along the path toward reconciliation and we acknowledge the critical work

0:57

that we must continue to do to address the impacts of colonization

1:02

the governor general’s award in visual and media arts is a lifetime achievement award that recognizes an artist’s career

1:08

their body of work and contribution to the visual and media arts and fine craft in canada

1:14

this year eight artists are being honored in recognition of their exceptional careers and remarkable contributions to the

1:20

visual arts media arts and fine craft the 2020 winners are deanna bowen dana

1:27

claxton ruth cut hand michael fernandez jorge lozano larsa ken lum anna tarma and zainab fergie

1:35

this afternoon we are very pleased to welcome michael fernandez michael fernandez is a trinidad born artist who

1:42

came to canada in the 1960s to study at the montreal museum of fine arts his works often rely on polemical

1:49

constructs like us and them as a way to provoke self-recognition on the part of the viewer his

1:56

installations have the sense have a sense of improvisation and liberalism which create a feeling of

2:01

intimacy and directness as opposed to the package the streamlined and the simulated

2:07

one can say at least metaphorically that his work is always in the first person and present tense

2:13

and that it stands against facade and spectacle in favor of active activism at nascar where michael has

2:20

taught since 1993 he is known for the subtlety of his pedagogical methods

2:25

he has exhibited extensively across canada and abroad notably at the art gallery of nova scotia the national gallery of canada

2:33

mass moca and moma ps1 michael currently lives in east over nova scotia

2:39

tonight michael’s in conversation with roy cossey a fellow artist and former student

2:45

born and raised in hamilton ontario roy cossey’s practice is the result of his semi-nomadic lifestyle

2:51

having established studios in halifax hamilton vancouver lethbridge and medicine hat cossey makes

2:57

room for the geography and history of each place he inhabits which then inform his practice as the

3:03

child of immigrants crosses continuous relocations pay homage to the impact immigrants can have in their adopted

3:09

culture and vice versa and are an attempt to transgress a vacuous ego driven sense of belonging

3:16

most recently causti’s solo exhibition the king is dead cast a critical eye towards baby boomer

3:22

culture and neoliberalism and was on display at the aga until october of 2020. he also has a

3:30

series of drawings in a current traveling exhibition as part of the alberta foundation for the arts traveling exhibition program

3:36

which will travel across alberta until 2023 before i turn things over to michael and

3:41

roy just a few notes please enter any questions that you have in the chat and we’ll answer them at the

3:46

end of the conversation i would also like to take this opportunity to thank fcor

3:52

who support aga online programming through their heart and soul fund so please join me in welcoming michael

3:58

fernandez and roy cossey thank you

4:05

thanks katherine thank you all right michael

4:12

you and me

4:18

all right so it’s been a while since i’ve seen you it’s good to see you first of all um see how happy i am in this image

4:25

you look ecstatic i look ecstatic this was this is a breaker for me and uh

4:33

it functioned as an announcement you know i i sent it out saying it’s a boy in case people were wondering

4:42

what the hell it was it’s a boy and uh interesting

4:49

it’s it’s weird right weird image it’s an extremely strange image actually

4:55

um i was one of the recipients of that email that you sent out that notifying that that you had a beautiful

5:00

baby boy now um and i couldn’t i really couldn’t make sense of it i had no clue what i was looking at i

5:09

i just but the one thing that really attracted to me that image was just how big your smile is in that you’re just

5:14

beaming you’re so proud of this new baby boy that you have i’m happy yeah you’re happy you’re um

5:21

but the maybe the one thing that really kind of got me actually with this is that is the

5:27

title garment for unprecedented times and i i just

5:33

i i would love to hear how you came up with that or why why that title was important for for

5:40

this outfit right yeah well it’s an idea of

5:48

serving the impossible i thought that for many times in the past

5:56

i adhered to what was possible in terms of making work

6:02

and i actually described a lot of the the outcomes as being possible as being

6:08

possibilities and this when i stumbled on this

6:14

idea i became a way aware of the notion of the impossible

6:21

and i embraced it in a way in which age i thought because

6:27

of my age and gender conflates

6:33

and become in this positive gesture a bit of a

6:42

concoction of some kind you know it’s like it’s dealing with the impracticalities and the

6:48

impossibilities at the same time by affording it and

6:54

presenting it in a in a confident way it gives the impression

7:01

of uh the possible so it’s

7:09

i was hoping on some level that there is a sense of the natural

7:17

knowing that it’s unnatural so by me wearing the suit

7:27

and with this gesture of smile and affordability of happiness

7:35

gave a sense of positivity to the impossible and brought it into a world

7:42

of the natural it was uh designed for my intention was to wear it

7:49

at the award ceremony and i was seriously meaning to

7:56

have a conversation with the governor general i wanted to have that happen in this outfit in exactly that

8:03

outfit as we see it yes yes and i was hoping for the the the invitation

8:11

to to create a serious conversation i i wish i wish that could have happened

8:18

honestly i think that that’s that outfit and also as you mentioned too i think it is

8:23

there is something very relevant about the stage of life that you’re in as you’re wearing that

8:28

that garment to then have this conversation with with such a position as the governor

8:35

general right like what a position within canadian government and i think there’s something so

8:40

beautiful about that um it also kind of makes me think of um

8:46

actually there is this i i don’t i forget what song it is but it’s a joni mitchell song where she mentions anima

8:51

rising and then i was kind of looking up anima and animus and it’s this idea that

8:57

you know at least with the animus i could be getting this wrong or mixed up here but that’s uh this kind of feminizing of

9:04

masculinity or this and this and this masculine masculinizing of femininity i guess as

9:09

well please correct me if i’m wrong for anybody who’s watching or listening right but but that this this seems to touch on

9:16

to that right you’re letting go of this kind of male ego maybe let’s say or

9:23

mail them and you’re it’s a soft it’s a very soft image i guess is what i’m trying to get across

9:28

well it’s the science behind it right that dictates the possibility

9:36

and playing with that um [Music] again the notion of bringing it forward

9:42

in a way of positivity is perhaps

9:48

attempting uh a result of the natural like i said in terms of

9:56

the impossibility is what the work is what is impossible is what interests me

10:04

rather than what is possible so in this work where even

10:10

though it’s subtle in that way the garment is in two parts one

10:17

part is is what we call a onesie which kids are more familiar with you

10:23

know when we put our kids you know like it it it involves the feet right up to the

10:29

neck you know and again it’s one suit yeah and um then the other part which is

10:36

like a brief a man’s brief actually was modeled after the jewel fresh

10:41

design for the men’s brief and i took into particular you know account that it be constructed

10:50

along those lines but overwhelmingly large to to allow for the expansive belly

10:58

um some of my close friends when receiving it uh who hadn’t seen me for a long time

11:07

thought that something had happened to me what has happened to you and uh

11:14

and they in in in after in preview uh they have told me that

11:20

they thought i had become ill on some level and that i was presenting it with uh a smile

11:30

oh it was like an update like a personal update actually that’s how they were thinking this yeah and that and that struck me as

11:37

being also very interesting where you could take on

11:42

the result of suffering or pain or ailment

11:49

but instead of being overcome in the gesture you present the gesture of being

11:56

fine so he looks you know the man in the outfit like i said he’s smiling

12:03

he gives the impression that everything is okay yeah so i think those conflations

12:11

of the opposites are something that i’ve always been uh attracted to and continue with but in

12:19

this in this case gender as well as age

12:25

is being expressed in the in the garment the garment being a onesie mostly

12:32

attributed to the the infant stages and the briefs

12:38

mostly attend to the adult so i guess there’s also this aspect of

12:45

the conversation not actually happening with the governor general that actually leads into that ties into this impossibility as

12:52

well right like in in effect it be it becomes an impossible conversation to have

12:57

now i mean unless you i don’t know how you can chase the governor general down the street and catch some in this outfit

13:03

right like yeah but that does not um change for me does not change my

13:09

attention um i didn’t know that we would be

13:15

stricken with the covet you know social distancing and all that

13:22

at that point i decided to to put the the outfit on on a mannequin and the

13:29

mannequin is in the show the current show installation but my

13:34

intention was to wear it and after wearing it would was to

13:40

hang it somewhere but i never intended i i never imagined that

13:46

the meeting would not have taken place but once once i knew that that was impossible it

13:52

was not happening um i still went with the idea that

13:59

to put it in the show there’s an aspect or an element of bravery i guess as well

14:04

and trying to or do you feel that that is that is relevant in this as well where where you would be willing to put

14:11

on this outfit in such a serious format such as serious venue as

14:16

accepting a lifetime achievement award right so is that was that part of your thinking in there

14:22

yeah well not only in the award circumstances but maybe i could say the

14:30

bigger picture being the times in which we are experiencing right now well that’s why i called it

14:36

unprecedented times garment for the unprecedented

14:41

times um i think that um it’s touchy

14:49

in ways that we see the gen the genderization or the

14:57

binary of this thought and i was well aware that for some

15:05

this is a bit too um in some ways

15:13

ill unsensitive you know insensitive so

15:21

that appeals to me there are other works that would come would reflect the same

15:27

feeling of the unsettling or the um

15:33

the the vulnerable the vulnerability yes the work and the unsettling nature

15:41

of the work and the impracticality of the work and also the uh

15:49

the you use the word brave in some ways the the sort of embracing

15:58

of the negative in a way that

16:04

seems by the gesture of the embrace to be natural and keep coming back to

16:10

that because it’s like i’m interested in when the thing doesn’t

16:15

look prepared i’m interested when the thing

16:20

looks easy i’m interested when it looks simple

16:27

at the same time i’m interested when it creates complexity yeah

16:33

and that is at the base and has always been part of my mo there’s something to that

16:42

do you mind if i move through the slide i keep talking great um there’s something about that that i

16:48

find um could be very unsettling for a viewer

16:53

who has no sense of your practice let’s say just just the general layman just stepping off the lay person stepping off

16:59

the street right into the gallery space often times most people are not expecting that from an artistic practice from

17:06

looking at art in the space they they there’s there’s it’s almost impossible not to have these

17:12

standardized ideas of what to expect right and so how do you

17:17

find ways to navigate that or or is that a factor for you i guess i don’t think of that i don’t i really i don’t think of

17:24

that i don’t think of the gallery space being sacred or being different street really

17:32

i feel that as a matter of fact the street is more unpredictable

17:37

obviously and the gallery can be be predictable because

17:42

people are informed when they go to the gallery and they may not see what they

17:50

wish or what they would like to see but at the same time they’re prepared

17:55

when they go there on the street you could say it’s just the opposite

18:01

because you don’t know where we are in our heads and you don’t know where we are in our mind we we could be going towards our jobs

18:07

but we could be completely thinking of our vocation or whatever or stressed out in ways that is has

18:15

nothing to do with them with the moment we are in experiencing in a traffic jam or anything like that

18:21

yeah that is shown you know often when we are beside

18:26

ourselves you know when we are not really uh taking it on taking life easily

18:34

you know so i like the work to be uncensored but also i like the work to

18:41

be um natural in in ways of seemingly

18:48

very easy like no um article or no attempt

18:57

to uh to remove it from the everyday you know like it’s

19:04

i’m not interested in making it different really i’m interested in perhaps

19:12

like the idea that this t-shirt says something and puts us in

19:18

another place and i know that area i lived in vancouver for a while and i know the resonance of

19:25

that territory so that seeing this on a person

19:32

out east which is where it was this was taken on a farm in in in dover where i live the guy has

19:40

goats and his history is a different thing but

19:45

he is wearing a t-shirt that hops back to which is what all t-shirts of

19:53

different periods and when they they are recyclable and when we find them in different uh

20:00

you know by chance we encounter them many years past the the engagement pass the uh

20:07

performance past the whatever the it’s attributing to and on on the front

20:14

of the shirt you know this this location may have passed 20 years ago but someone is still connected with it

20:21

and wears it into the now it’s and forgets about it forget at the same time it’s not even

20:28

aware of what the t-shirt is even carrying which is kind of funny to go

20:33

back to actually the garment from president times the idea of then that garment being something that gets

20:40

recycled and then gets put into just everyday life and you can find it someone finds it at value village

20:46

and who knows how it becomes repurposed and can take on a whole new life but it’s interesting how the initial

20:52

gesture i guess is so um considered and and really

20:57

on some level labored upon to get it right and then eventually it can just it can kind of

21:03

become assimilated into everyday life and be used in whatever way people want similar to this t-shirt i guess

21:10

as you can say right yeah i mean like it does have a different life and you’re showing a

21:15

different life too and you’re not dismissing the history

21:21

either because it’s yeah you know it’s it’s present in its display because it’s built into that garment like with

21:27

the text on that shirt you know it is text you can read it but with your garmin again that’s and

21:33

speaking kind of coming to this this image too the condom cucumber there’s there’s again something

21:39

about late stage in life uh reading and like that uh has a strong

21:45

influence on this image right there’s something very childhood

21:50

childish about this image but it really makes sense coming from

21:56

the the the age that you are now the white hair the the frailty let’s say right there’s

22:03

quite beautiful and feminized about this image to agree well i think also the the idea of the

22:08

kitchen the idea the connection with food and uh maybe this age my age at this time

22:17

maybe there is more or less uh an interest in food can be

22:24

i’ve noticed that in myself i go through stages where i’m more interested or less interested

22:32

it rises and falls and uh using food

22:37

to replicate something or to touch or to evoke that

22:44

is not becomes food playing with food you know at the same time

22:53

massaging uh massaging notions of something you know notions of

22:59

something notions of how we see

23:07

[Music] and sense of uh

23:13

the phallic and all that so but if you put a condom on a cucumber

23:19

which this is i mean what are you saying about food you know what i mean

23:24

is food that violent is that is food that uh is is is food that

23:32

uh hearsay is food that um necessary

23:40

is food that

23:45

at the core of who we are like somebody was horny that’s why we are

23:51

here somebody got horny and here we are

23:57

all of us yep yeah and directors so yeah and then and it’s a crude

24:04

but it’s also it’s it’s a reality

24:10

you know there’s and there’s there’s something about kind of coming back to this serving the impossible because it would

24:16

be absolutely impossible to impregnate anything with a condom on a cucumber do you know

24:22

what i mean like there’s just utterly impossible but there’s also this kind of like

24:27

futility this aspect of futility of of like maybe the way a little boy or a child

24:35

stares at a pregnant belly and with fascination it’s almost the opposite here right like it’s it’s it’s

24:41

not lamenting it’s playing also right we are perishable

24:47

we are vegetable we are food the food we eat

24:54

we become you know so there is this circle or cycling of

25:01

potency and impotency and also the sense of

25:09

what you eat how you eat how you become what you become so there’s a great

25:16

uh doing of you know like i said somebody was horny and that’s here we are um

25:25

you know it makes us uh in some ways veril but at the same time like

25:32

we are we have a shelf life too yeah and and that shelf life is is being

25:40

considered in terms of cooking and in terms of what we do

25:47

and what we continue to do as individuals as we move forward as we live

25:56

so do you think there’s a need to remind people of that like is there is is that

26:02

why this gesture this photograph exists let’s say not the gesture of the photo i’m not thinking so much about

26:10

others in terms of i’m not preaching or i’m not teaching

26:16

i i don’t see it quite like that i see it more as discovering or

26:23

exploring areas of myself or of my own

26:28

thinking about something or experiencing of something so these these works are in the first

26:35

person catherine had mentioned earlier on and

26:41

they’re more akin to i feel on some level if i experience something

26:48

i know that there got to who be also experienced this we may not

26:54

experience it in the same way but i don’t think of my audience really i don’t

27:00

i i think more of uh people have told me about the art that you know have

27:05

included themselves as the audience and then at that point you get a sense of yeah or may you know

27:13

like this bothers me or it doesn’t but this is so rare that it’s not even

27:18

i dismiss it i don’t like it oh i feel that it’s not sensitive you know

27:25

but i find within it i am citing my attempt is to cite that area where

27:32

the vulnerability exists and there’s a normalcy

27:37

yeah there’s a normalcy i’m not putting something down i’m not putting something up but i’m i’m making

27:44

that that space where there’s a lot of slippage and a lot of sense of uh

27:52

maybe perhaps the possibility that sounds like a very tenuous balance

27:59

let’s say because it it’s it seems that there’s a process of setting your own ego aside

28:07

to to not just try to create your own mandate let’s say or to

28:12

push an agenda forward but really to to be able to put something into the

28:17

world that is not neutral but but it’s neutral enough for people to anybody to be able to

28:23

approach it and have a reaction to and and not feel like they’re being pushed in some way

28:28

right so is there a um has that is that is that something

28:34

that just comes naturally within your practice or is that something that you’ve considered and worked on um

28:40

in the sense of a practice right well it’s something that i’m working on i would say it’s not over and it’s not

28:47

complete and probably it never would be um nothing is ever completed i thought

28:54

and as we go on you know we carry with us

29:01

whatever that has made us so we are we are gathering we are

29:08

gatherers as we get older we’re gathering more you know and we’re also losing so

29:17

in that area of losing and gaining i find there is

29:24

a beginning of understanding of something that i find

29:29

it’s not infinite but it’s it’s it it is uh it’s it’s a curiosity

29:36

that is born with a freshness because it’s new you you you were never

29:44

in this situation before you were never experienced it you heard about it what it is to be

29:49

getting old and what it would could be like what it and yet at the same time

29:56

in experiencing it you you tend to dismiss the idea of getting old in a way

30:04

that maybe intimidates you or if you could

30:09

say from the other point of view where like for example the expression is i’m too old for that

30:16

oh listen man i don’t need to i am all somebody had told me this once many

30:22

years ago listen i i said aren’t you concerned about

30:28

no i’m old man so i’m allowed or at this age

30:35

yeah i don’t care you know what others think and that’s freedom yeah

30:42

that’s realizing a freedom and i think when when we think of putting things

30:49

together in that notion of surprise or

30:55

a sense of discovery at the core it expresses

31:02

it’s like a breakout you know it’s a break away it it it it busts it breaks it

31:10

it pops and and that becomes uh an expression of one

31:17

you know it’s like so instead of it being a frame whatever it is

31:22

it it’s splices in so many different ways or it

31:28

goes you know it’s like somebody told me about this image

31:33

that they thought that i was mimicking uh someone from afghanistan

31:41

oh okay and i said well that’s interesting that you said that but i didn’t even

31:49

have that territory in my mind that geography that yes i wasn’t even

31:56

thinking that what was i thinking i was thinking of an expression of like starkness you know like what the hell

32:04

at the same time with the humor yeah so i thought more towards

32:11

uh inspector clue so in in look-alikeness yeah

32:18

and i’ve used myself in many instances where i felt like those characters or different

32:24

characters like mr gadget sometimes and i like those seemingly

32:34

you know like the wearing of or trying on of a loss a loss or

32:42

a sense of other and it’s a very simple gesture

32:49

but you still can’t be that you still can’t be that and knowing that

32:56

for whatever moment the camera could capture it is that yeah my point of view

33:02

that’s interesting that’s interesting yeah there’s kind of a funny thing as well about you

33:07

putting on this costume to be an other to be this pluso character

33:13

and while you’re being an other someone else further others you in a sense by then

33:19

calling you out as being from afghanistan and there’s kind of a nice little kind of

33:24

not feedback loop but just like this downward spiral of it just can go on infinitely of you just get

33:31

other to other to other then it gets further and further away from the point i

33:36

um i thought that actually that’s maybe how this project had started someone had just assumed you were from

33:43

afghanistan and so then you put on this this outfit this costume but

33:48

no it was all the way around the other way around the image made that connection see

33:55

there’s something interesting in this room i’m hearing i don’t can you hear some popping sounds

34:01

yeah yeah okay the popping sounds are coming from a fireplace behind me

34:07

yeah okay now this fireplace you can’t see it it’s not in the image but

34:13

it’s um i describe it you you’re familiar with them it’s a fake fireplace and it has a sound

34:22

element that provides the crackling the crackling right that’s what you’re

34:28

hearing now it’s electrical it’s a plug-in

34:36

situation and every now and then the furnace the real source of heat

34:44

comes in and provides us with what the support function of the

34:51

replica is i find that you know it’s so simple but

34:58

it’s so disorienting that we have accepted it without even noting it you know yeah

35:06

we’re not even checking it and it’s it’s beautiful and maybe

35:13

there is no such thing as being um

35:20

the the specific or the

35:27

like what is the ideal you know we may think of it but what is it really

35:34

this could be ideal yeah yeah and yet it on on one if you take it apart it’s

35:41

it’s flawed it’s so heavily flawed but then is it flawed as we

35:48

enjoy it and include it in our surroundings and in

35:54

our life i think we are gesturing of its uniqueness and uh there’s something

36:01

brave about that and very um subtle in terms of uh

36:07

how we we comprehend you know like how we could comprehend

36:15

what is legitimate and what isn’t yes it’s like the camouflage on a predator or

36:22

it’s like the like a the nice smiling face of capitalism to a degree as well like

36:27

you know that that’s there’s more to it behind the scene what is the function of this thing ultimately

36:33

so it’s the entryway or it’s the beautiful flower that attracts the bee let’s say as well right

36:38

but yet there’s a complete futility within since there’s actually no heat coming from the fireplace um i wanted to

36:46

plus you wanted to play a video so i want to just kind of get that playing just for the amount of time we have sure um

36:52

when i hit play the sound will kind of be loud for a second but i’ll quickly turn the volume down and i can

36:57

keep talking over that yeah all right just one second

37:07

so can you do you want the sound fully off or no no i i can’t see it though i could hear

37:13

it but i couldn’t see it here we go if there were any doubt that steph curry is the greatest shooter

37:19

ever what you’re about to see will end that doubt after warriors practice saturday curry decided to get some extra three pointers

37:26

up and he just kept making it and making them there we go so making them he hit maybe we’ll

37:33

hear the intro 105 someone from the warriors started recording after the first two

37:39

so there are 103 of them on video his shooting streak lasted for five minutes so we’re just gonna let it run

37:45

picture and picture while we continue the show so you can see them all trae young 37 points of the hawks season opener

37:52

john moran had 44 in the grizzly season opener then they met saturday in memphis so

37:57

let’s see what happened um what is it about this video that you wanted to talk about because there is

38:03

something that is remaining in the house we know so much for the threat

38:16

for the game

38:37

give another look at that one young making it really easy consecutive three 25 assists in the third quarter

38:42

hawks down one hand

38:56

the fact that you know that

39:04

apply these notions of the impossible true fabrication

39:10

and the hawks apparently here 122.

39:26

uh

39:40

is

39:56

[Music]

40:09

is saying it was done like 50 so there’s videos yeah so you could take it down magic

40:15

taking on russell westbrook of the wizards triple double in his first game for washington and he was at it again

40:22

i like i like very much the um the realm in where that

40:30

sense of sense of doubt and the sense of the possibility exists you know where we

40:38

we become uh uh super you know

40:44

it’s like the superhuman you know in terms of accomplishing in this case an athlete

40:52

at the finest level showing something that is uh

40:59

not the everyday in the sport there’s something also about like there

41:06

there’s a nice aspect to this video too because it all comes down to practice as well

41:12

right so there’s the only way you can hit that repetition is by constant constant practice

41:17

and yeah there’s something beautiful that can relate to an artistic practice i think as well but what what is practice within an

41:24

artistic practice like what is a junk shot that’s to our practice right that’s interesting for me that’s a word

41:31

that i don’t use yeah the idea of practice does not appeal to me because it comes

41:39

with a notion of a trial a sense of rehearsal

41:45

a sense of an agenda really and i feel

41:51

i i lean more to the spontaneity to improvise and to the happening

41:58

of something so yet when i use that as an example of something i’m quite aware

42:04

that as you said it may have taken practice i think

42:11

to get to a point to be able to to do what i do the way i do

42:20

it may not seem like practice yeah you know what i mean but i

42:26

commitment i think there is work going on there to accept that for me i’m not talking

42:33

about another i’m talking about for me to to move my interests

42:40

can only be because i have done a certain preparation yeah so

42:47

yet when when it says when we use the word my practice i this

42:54

the notion that i am uh rehearsing or i’m looking at something if the thing

43:01

becomes uh much like work or feels like

43:06

work i’m not interested yeah and so but that’s and there there’s

43:14

something i guess maybe then you think about the lifespan of an athlete it’s quite short

43:19

right it’s all within their youth by the time they’re like 35 they’re almost aged out and so but for an artist i mean it’s a

43:26

it’s like as uh as we’ve been looking at your images the very first one of the garments from

43:31

precedence at times there’s a commitment that goes that extends beyond

43:37

the the basic work life that we understand and in in context or in

43:44

yeah in juxtaposition to the athlete’s career the artist has all this like this

43:50

longevity to to build this understanding or this commitment within themselves is is that

43:57

something that you’re is that that makes that’s here i i play the sport table tennis i love table tennis

44:05

and right now i could safely say

44:10

i’m at my best than i’ve ever been and i feel and

44:18

other people have told me all the people i play with constantly i’m getting even better

44:25

yeah yet as i get older you would think it’s the other way around like you were saying with the athlete

44:31

now for me i have played with champs in the sport and they tell me this i

44:40

know number three in the world uh in in canada yeah and it’s a woman in this case

44:47

she just told me that i enjoy the sport more than she does

44:54

because she is under a lot of stress and pressure being number three in canada she’s

45:00

aiming for number one and she’s watching me play she would not play me she’s given me some pointers

45:07

i do everything wrong in her eyes but i seem to have fun and i’ve come

45:13

very far he said you play a very good game so when it comes to

45:18

to wanting to play with her to learn more she tells me i would just throw her off her game

45:25

because the person she’s practicing for is not my style no so they keep

45:30

themselves geared to the next to the to the competition and that makes for the sport where

45:39

it’s no fun then i feel i’m missing something if my work

45:45

is not fun it’s like that i’m also missing something if i’m being stressed out to

45:51

the degree it’s not i am recreational so do you think that’s professional i am

45:58

not professional yeah i’m not seeking professionalism in that way so then how can you

46:06

or is there a way to relay that into let’s say an art art practice for

46:13

or an art career let’s say for younger people like maybe people just heading out of their bfas you know

46:19

because once you’re out of your bfa there’s all this pressure to go into an mfa and professionalize and keep this like competition almost going

46:26

otherwise why are these all these credentials right so is there a way for to relay that yeah but i don’t see that

46:32

as competition though i see that as as as availability you know

46:37

in terms of uh if someone wants a job if someone wants to teach

46:44

you know just having your your under degree you know it’s not gonna

46:51

it’s not gonna cut it in some cases you know like really they’re hiring at this at the

46:57

level of phds now in art really in the in the universities

47:02

they’re looking at the the artists with the phds for the job

47:09

and and you know and you think about it the thing that i always felt about art

47:14

and i still do to this stage is that it’s the one thing i could think of

47:22

that you don’t have to have a license for you don’t have to have a certificate for to be an artist

47:27

you don’t have to pass a test to be an artist but we made it as though you have to

47:33

and if you a young person today graduated with a with a bachelor’s

47:40

you know i’m sure you you there are people who would employ you if you know they used to be in my days they

47:47

had this terminology it was called equivalence so you didn’t

47:52

have your masters or you didn’t have you even in my days in the 50s when i went to school you

47:59

know late 50s you know there was no such thing as an art college

48:05

per se you know there was no if there was it was a a kind of um it was

48:12

non-degree you know and uh people went back who came out of that

48:19

education and went back and got their degrees to get work to to become teachers right but

48:27

there was always an attention to your to your histories or to your

48:33

your record of work you’re functioning as an artist so they’d look at your shoes your

48:40

exhibition your activity became the equivalence to your

48:45

employment without the papers so do you think that there’s a way to

48:50

navigate around all that i don’t see it yeah i think

48:56

that’s my that’s how i come to where i am yeah i don’t have a a a bfa

49:03

i never went to a uh accredited school i never did yeah you know

49:10

i stopped going to school in 1963.

49:16

you know i didn’t even finish the four-year program but yeah you know do i fault myself on

49:22

any way i was very lucky yeah but i had the equivalency

49:28

i was very active from day one even as a student a second year student

49:33

i was in the montreal painting show my people were selected to be with the with the

49:40

painters professional painters at the time all on harry gagnon gautier i was in that company

49:46

with my painting and being a student so it was like they were my teachers yeah and i had a sense of

49:55

something that was beyond what the school was also you know and it’s not

50:03

it’s just i could say luck or something i didn’t know what i was doing yeah but i did have a taste for

50:11

something i i know when i was um so i did do a master’s program

50:17

and uh it was a program that was closely connected with the undergrad program that was also at that university and um

50:25

and something i noticed was this this pressure that the that the undergrads felt to immediately

50:31

jump into an mfa they just had to just apply immediately and get into that and not take any time to let’s say go

50:37

back into the streets like get out of the institution get out of that kind of mindset and

50:43

uh there’s a beautiful thing to that era of what you’re discussing that just seems impossible now and

50:50

is there any way to let’s say well if if you you know if i was on a

50:57

selection committee and this person came forward with work

51:04

that had nothing to do with an institution of any kind this person was self-taught let’s put it like that

51:10

i i personally felt moved by the word that the work was good that’s my vote

51:17

i don’t care what that was not attached if i was i was in the position of hiring

51:23

and i saw this energy that stood out got my vote got my backing but that’s not the uh

51:31

that’s not the status quo i don’t think many people like when you teach somebody how to

51:37

apply for a canada council grant you know and you have a formula how to write

51:46

how to look i think it’s a problem there you’re you’re citing something that has nothing

51:52

to do with uh anybody being unique about something

51:59

you know what i mean yeah you’re looking for a fit yeah that i’m i’m never enchanted with and uh

52:05

that never seemed to appeal never did even when i was in art school

52:11

never appealed to me which kind of goes back to this sense of bravery that we’re talking about or that i brought up at the

52:16

beginning i think very early you know the notion i saw the sense of the idea of freedom

52:24

i experienced that that you could i you can do anything right yeah you could do

52:29

anything well why why aren’t you not doing anything and then you you check in and you

52:35

realize well why why am i not doing anything

52:41

it’s a good question yes you will find the reasons why you’re not

52:47

so like i’m at a point where there are no excuses there’s no excuses yeah yeah yeah no

52:54

excuse this this is an interesting image this this this is a very simple situation but

53:00

i i planted those flowers yeah i didn’t plant the rock

53:06

that’s a raw a big bra yeah and this rock is more alive

53:13

right it’s it’s covered totally with this lichen the deer likes eats this

53:19

the deer come and they eat it so hot it so happens that this rock is

53:24

maybe they don’t come to this rough this is spared but i would water the rock and by

53:32

watering the rock i never watered the plants these these are annuals

53:38

yeah but these are the rock is perennial comes up every it it it dormants it’s sleeping now

53:46

right and so i call it guru and there’s something about the music

53:54

too that i’m thinking about yeah you know the role the rock as well and yet

54:03

it’s very you know it’s growing but yet my

54:10

my attention to it is is less in the way of being present or alive

54:17

and more as being deaf you know it’s solid it’s blunt it’s heavy it’s tough

54:25

right but at the same time with this life from the inside to the outside

54:33

rocks are alive 100 i would agree with that

54:40

so you know i mean i’m interested in in you know the cup pouring

54:48

into another vest one vessel into the other one becoming the other in the other as

54:54

well you know well i i think about this image actually as like um almost like a like a tombstone in a

55:00

sense right like there’s this kind of very funerary kind of sense to but it’s still living

55:06

at the same time so it kind of goes back to this kind of process of regeneration that you’re with the condom cucumber image of

55:12

you know we’re all perishable in the end yet this rock keeps living but at the same time like soil itself is

55:19

created from these rocks and so so we are too generated from the soil

55:24

and so there’s this kind of control back to the soil from the soil back to the soil

55:35

this one this one it’s an image i took and i

55:42

that was a conversation conversation was about this particular is the begonia this is

55:50

about a plant and this is is specified now this i mean this one

55:59

i just saw it i caught it i thought wow this is when you have a moment where the action and

56:07

the demonstration is together right yeah the image it’s like

56:13

it is what it is it’s like there’s no way

56:19

i like that no no there’s also this yes yeah yeah that’s a power that’s a power

56:25

in in in the literal yes yeah that it that i find is easily dismissed

56:32

so i’m not interested in photography but i’m interested in authenticity

56:40

yeah you know this one yeah yeah yeah the one filtered gesture yeah

56:47

and you know you don’t hear it you see it yeah and what you don’t see

56:55

you can hear you know it’s very interesting how the the language becomes

57:03

access accessible in in ways that we don’t even

57:11

understand like it’s quiet but it’s not there’s a lot going on there’s noise out

57:18

there like i mean imagine if it was not the begonias or the flowers out there but something else

57:24

in this in place of those that that kind of gesture of pointing can it would it would completely alter

57:31

the reading right depending on what the object was that she was pointing to yet there’s still this assuredness of of

57:37

that this this immediacy right this connection that’s being made yeah well i think the gesture is so

57:47

it’s too pointed you know it’s so boom and the thing the bouquet or the the burst you know

57:53

the red are so like the same way boom so you have these two

57:58

uh vibrating places of a person giving power you know

58:06

it’s like you know it’s like that thing within the sistine chapel you know you know you see the

58:12

michelangelo with the the adam and the god yeah you

58:17

know receiving and it’s a bit of that this this is uh is is

58:25

what’s going on you know this is this these are like markers sometimes yeah yeah but i find that

58:32

they’re like situating me in in contemporary uh media or

58:40

yeah happening and then outside like with the cucumber this one

58:47

the grow rock is is like a move

58:55

on the side it’s like a side glance these are markers now

59:03

they’re familiar they have a feminine people see them they know what they’re seeing because we’ve seen it so many times if

59:09

we if we look at the news we’re all seeing the same news we’re

59:15

also also reading everything it’s the same you know we’re being piped right we

59:22

could get it from different media but they’re all talking about the same in different ways probably but that

59:29

exists but are they talking about the guru maybe not are they talking about so then

59:35

you think oh i do i think um this is mundane in comparison this is so

59:43

mundane the grow rock is so mundane but if when i think about it this is big

59:49

this is huge for me yeah alongside that or even have something to

59:55

do with that where we have come you know so there’s a nice coexistence on different

1:00:02

levels one is totally uh you could say uh brought to the

1:00:10

the masses the other one is private very personal so the personal with the

1:00:17

private becomes a kind of a mirror

1:00:24

you know there’s a nice conflation there as well because i i followed the news yeah

1:00:30

i think that’s a good kind of to then to go to this image that we’re looking at now that kind of holding

1:00:36

like as a as media as as holding up a mirror to the natural world and always kind of

1:00:42

making that point and gesture of like singling things out to talk about but then you know we do have these

1:00:49

massive events such as like what happened in washington dc and uh maybe and so this image is

1:00:56

from um what happened on what was it on friday i believe or

1:01:03

wednesday i guess but um so can like is there does that gesture

1:01:10

still exist when it’s when it’s um mitigated through these other channels

1:01:16

through media when it’s separated away from the event like you’re not seeing the rock or you’re not

1:01:21

with that woman and capturing her pointing now we’re looking we’re listening to someone else who’s now pointing that finger

1:01:28

and and trying to understand through that lens now right that filter

1:01:33

yeah but this this popular culture

1:01:39

so it goes in some ways it goes back to if you think um

1:01:45

you make something different in the gallery because you expect it to

1:01:52

because you you are aware that someone who comes is prepared if you

1:01:59

if you think of it just happening so this whether it’s on the street level whether

1:02:06

it’s on the television whether it’s in the gallery it will have the same

1:02:12

in some ways what what we know it will you know we could dismiss it in

1:02:18

the gallery saying i have seen yeah give me something else or it’s a reminder or history

1:02:27

it has a place it has a place but i think in terms of his longevity

1:02:34

it’s in the arena of um it’s not in commonplace it becomes in

1:02:42

the arena of history in the arena of um

1:02:49

a milestone you could say someone is will has never been the same since that

1:02:55

image or that what what is taking place there change us

1:03:00

what is taking place there meant something in a big way you know it this is an

1:03:07

event that is life-changing that resonated around the world

1:03:14

my little world does not resonate around the world i know that i don’t expect it to

1:03:24

i don’t have any i don’t fool myself i’m not changing anything

1:03:31

yeah yeah yeah yeah you know yeah any change that come and could come would be from my actions

1:03:42

i consider what i do part of my actions you know it’s part of my head my hands these are the extensions of

1:03:50

this the hands things that you make so on some level we

1:03:58

i feel a strength in community i feel a strength in

1:04:03

humanity as a whole yeah like we’ll get beyond this too

1:04:09

you know even though this has a replay to it in many different ways

1:04:16

we get beyond it yeah the gro rock is also a signal for me

1:04:24

of beyond it yeah it’s like it exists at the same it could have been the same day

1:04:30

it could have been the same day that took my attention like this also took my attention but i think that

1:04:36

attention there knowing this existing gives this more power for me yeah you know

1:04:44

so it’s it tells me that on an individual level on a personal

1:04:51

level it’s public as well it’s in this private domain

1:04:57

there is a sense of the big the whole there’s something subtle

1:05:03

there’s something infinite but there’s also there’s life here as well

1:05:08

and when you point that when the person does this you are in in negation you know like

1:05:13

sometimes when we are only this is major this is major we miss the minor

1:05:19

right but it’s a combination of all all these things there’s something beautiful too in

1:05:25

context of the image that’s up now of what you were saying with these kind of personal gestures within your own

1:05:31

little sphere as well as this kind of balance thing kind of uh effect or

1:05:36

balancing elements um and i it seems that there is it’s growing harder and harder

1:05:45

to it’s more difficult now to keep those gestures as personal and not try to

1:05:53

have them sent out into this world and try to have some impact let’s say but but there is still a beautiful

1:06:00

sentiment to this kind of community improvement i guess ultimately

1:06:05

right like this community betterment this like sets place within a grounding right it is

1:06:11

necessary it is necessary it is uh just as

1:06:18

needed you know if you think about it as being both uh

1:06:30

collectively a throw forward it is progress it is uh it’s good that this happens

1:06:39

it’s good that this happens because this makes us better it makes us better it’s better that

1:06:47

it happened than it did because now that it happened we have an opportunity to better you

1:06:54

know yeah and it goes like that in ways you know it’s i’m not saying or putting down the people who have been

1:07:01

hurt or stuff like that that is yeah major well even if on the level

1:07:07

that’s uh by the fact of this actually now existing i was part of a

1:07:13

history let’s say actually actually happening there is no denying it anymore there it’s it’s plain as day and so therefore

1:07:19

you can now address it and then begin to build and move on from that too right like to improve based off of this giant kind of

1:07:27

happening mistake however you want to term it so and it just doesn’t come from nowhere

1:07:33

it comes from something that we have been harboring right obviously it’s it took a long time to

1:07:40

get here at that time we need to look at too we need to look at all the things that

1:07:47

help us understand this or even bring us to this what brought us here

1:07:54

you know yeah it’s interesting that a lot of people are saying if this was a black lives matter

1:08:02

crowd with a different result different result yeah there will probably be a lot

1:08:08

more dead people that’s interesting you know a color changes

1:08:14

the outcome too michael and roy i’m gonna have to interrupt you at this

1:08:20

moment i think um we have gone uh for an hour and ten

1:08:25

minutes and there are no questions in the chat room uh so there are no people um with

1:08:32

questions and i’m happy to have you continue talking if that’s what you want to do i just wanted to let you

1:08:38

know where we were in our in our scheduling here leave it to michael what do you what do

1:08:44

you feel well that’s it

1:08:50

i i interviewed i’m sorry um no what are you sorry about this is it

1:08:57

because i was enjoying it and i was just conscious of the time yeah i know it was wonderful and i’m

1:09:03

it’s so fascinating to end up i think uh where we did with the events

1:09:08

of the last uh week or so um continue like you know majorly challenging events

1:09:15

but i do like the perspective that without that how do we move forward how do we recognize

1:09:20

and how do we move forward so thank you very much for that um anyway i just did want to

1:09:27

uh close today’s webinar by thanking michael fernandez not just for your talk

1:09:33

today but for uh your contributions to art in canada over the last many decades so thank you very much

1:09:39

michael we’re honored to have your work at the ega so and also to roy um i know you’ve left

1:09:45

alberta and are in hamilton at the moment but we’ll come back any time they’re happy to have you and it’s been a pleasure working with you as well on

1:09:52

this project and also on your exhibition that was here in the fall so uh thank you oh there’s a

1:09:57

note here from zainab vergie another um award recipient from this year’s governor general’s just congratulating

1:10:04

uh michael and if there’s a lovely comment in the chat michael if you want

1:10:09

to read it um just from thanking you for uh the work that is thoughtful

1:10:16

meditative reflective um and the idea of work being invoked work also expresses the desire is clear that

1:10:24

the relation between work and daily activity has become more intimate it relates more closely to the idea of

1:10:29

techne and play rather as against the notion of work labor and jobs and i would like to say that uh david

1:10:36

harper has commented that you both have very nice hair so wow

1:10:43

david easy

1:10:49

is it cute [Laughter] there you go so anyway thank you thanks

1:10:56

so much for having me thank you so much thanks roy thanks helen

1:11:03

great thank you catherine it’s been a great event yeah thank you so much and um please

1:11:10

join us next monday at 6 00 p.m mountain time we will be hosting our third artist conversation with dana

1:11:17

claxton so thank you thank you very much okay everybody have a safe and wonderful

1:11:22

evening please hi michael evan thank you hi michael roy thank you

1:11:31

bye

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