Intro

0:00

Hello and welcome to Work In Progress, an exploratory podcast
hosted by the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria,

0:05

where you will hear from artists,
curators, gallery staff, collaborators and even different hosts as you listen to each episode.

0:12

I’m Nicole Stanbridge, Curator of Engagement
at the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria. And I’m your host for this episode.

0:19

Today’s recording was produced
on the traditional territory of the lək̓ʷəŋən speaking peoples,
also known as the Songhees and Esquimalt Nations.

Welcome

0:27

In this episode, we are joined by collaborators
from the Indigenous Intergenerational Exchange Program.

0:33

This group included 15 participants
who are all contributors to social justice and frontline activism

0:38

in their respective communities. They began gathering biweekly in February 2021
to share cultural teachings,

0:46

critical understanding and creative processes
within a healing online space.

0:51

Their conversations resulted in the exhibition titled Holding Ground, which was on view at the AGGV from July to October 2021.

1:01

Our hope is that this podcast episode will help extend the conversations that began with this project beyond the gallery’s

1:07

physical exhibition spaces and share the work
surrounding this program more broadly with friends, family

1:13

and communities who might want to learn more. Today I’m joined by artist Marianne Nicolson, Marika Swan and educator and media maker Nikki Sanchez, who will start us off

1:23

by sharing a bit more about their experiences from behind
the scenes leading and facilitating this evolving project.

1:30

Hi, Marianne, Marika and Nikki. Welcome. Perhaps you’d like to start us off by introducing yourselves.

Introductions

1:38

I’m Marianne Nicolson. My Kwak’wala name is Tayagila’ogwa,
and I was kind of involved in the Holding Ground project

1:47

with Nicole Stanbridge in regards to organizing and overseeing.

1:53

And I’m an artist and kind of an activist,
I guess, political activist for Indigenous rights, really.

2:00

I’m Nikki Sanchez. And I am a decolonial educator
and a land based teacher and a activist.

2:10

And it was such an honor
to be involved with Marianne and Marika and Nicole.

2:15

And one of the roles that I played
was just helping connect the art gallery with some of the really incredible women who have been doing
such good work in different areas of their life.

2:26

Hello, my name is Marika Swan, or Ahma-nuus-aq-suup. I am a Tla-o-qui-aht artist and community archivist.

2:35

Awesome. Thank you guys. I feel like so much of what happened in this experience

2:43

of this project with the Indigenous Intergenerational Exchange
and the Holding Ground Exhibition,

2:49

there was so much about process, like the time that it took. So right now this is the week, we’re exactly a year out
from when we sent out all the invitations

3:00

to those amazing folks who joined us on this experience
that we weren’t sure exactly what we wanted…

3:07

You know, we put a lot of intention into what was created,
but you know, we left a lot open

3:12

to kind of unfold as it evolved.

3:17

So, thinking back to when we first started meeting in the fall of 2020, actually,
what made you want to be part of this project?

3:29

Marianne, maybe you want to speak to… because the project really came out of… maybe the starting place is to ask you to share,

3:37

you know, because it all came out of an intention
and an idea that you set forth.

3:42

So do you want to share more about that? Yeah, I’ve really been

Institutional Relationships with Indigenous Peoples

3:47

really doing a deep dive into the institutional relationships
with Indigenous peoples and

3:54

kind of making the demand that institutions start to uphold and,

4:01

and direct resources towards Indigenous peoples
rather than continue

4:06

to be extractive, which the historical relationship
has been one of complete and utter extraction.

4:11

And even the contemporary relationships today are mostly grounded in a very topical engagement with indigenous issues.

4:19

And that’s been frustrating for me as an artist and as an activist. And so the conversations that we had in regards
to this exhibition where you know, how do we make an exhibition,

4:30

how do we structure an exhibition
and an engagement on Indigenous issues with Indigenous peoples
that is aligned more with Indigenous needs

4:41

and a true Indigenous expression, not just bringing like
in the past, galleries have brought Indigenous artists,

4:49

but they’ve exhibited them in a completely colonial platform
and way of interpreting

4:55

what the works are and how they’re consumed
and who the audience is and how they’re valued.

5:01

And so when we were in discussion around what this exhibition should be and one of the reasons why
I was so heavily involved in process is because I was wanting to

5:10

objectify art practice and look at how much more holistic fluid

5:16

and inter relational Indigenous cultural production
and expression is.

5:22

And so part of that was to also disassemble
what within the gallery has been a traditional kind

5:29

of authoritative relationship
between curator and artist participants.

5:35

And so when we brought in Nikki and Marika to be advisors to us
and to help us facilitate a process

5:47

not a product, or the production of a product,
but a process that would question

5:54

colonial ways of bringing Indigenous presence into an institution
like the Art Gallery of Victoria.

6:00

And it was really remarkable in doing that
and just setting the groundwork by opening up the organization of the program

6:10

to Marika and Nikki as equal participants. It completely transformed what our…
what this endeavor actually was.

6:19

So I’m really grateful to have been a part of that
because I learned so much by trying to put into practice

6:26

the criticality that I’ve been looking at the relationship
with institutions like art galleries and museums, etc.

6:35

in this particular exhibition that was ultimately
put together and run through the course of the year.

6:43

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. And it really did shift and expand the conversation
when Nikki and Marika came on board

6:51

because we had started talking about certain things,
but then actually talking them to more deeply with

6:56

a bigger group
really helped us bring more questions into the process. And I think that was really exciting.

7:03

Nikki or Marika,
did you want to share a bit about… other than I remember the first thing was
because Marianne was part of it. That was a big draw.

7:12

Yeah, I remember that too. Oh, yeah,
the timing of the invitation to collaborate was such a blessing,

7:24

you know, there was a confluence of events that were occurring and one of which being this global pandemic
that had really, like, rocked

7:34

our realities and our ability to exist in community
and in connection. And, and also really challenged frontline activism

7:44

about how it could take shape in a safe way amidst a pandemic.

7:49

And the other thing, the other factor
that was really significant for me was the culmination

7:56

of two weeks
of occupying the Victoria Parliament in solidarity with

8:02

Wetsu’wet’en, and that was led by Indigenous youth from 34 different nations.

8:09

And what was carried out there, although it was framed

8:14

in a really misunderstood way in the media
as an anti-pipeline protest, was actually a profound act of sovereignty and ceremony

8:24

and really incredible relationships were forged and you know, an alternative space of being
and a way of interacting and really building community emerged

8:37

and after police interference
and the arrests of some of the youth

8:43

that movement dispersed
and then quite shortly after we went into a lockdown.

8:48

And so to have the opportunity to connect with all three of you
and with the support of the art gallery

8:57

to create a possibility, a potential of a container to bring… to really uphold

9:05

not only the activism and courage and solidarity
that was demonstrated by youth at the legislature,

9:11

but by Indigenous women for generations and generations,
to bring that together.

9:19

It felt like this beautiful, kind of like beam of sunlight
during a very, very dark time.

9:26

And the other piece of that
is that bringing together the intersections of,

9:31

you know, activism and land defense and sovereignty movements
with art.

9:36

Right. And with storytelling and joy. And that was just such a gift
at such an uncertain and difficult time.

9:49

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that was a big part
of what Marianne started talking about, what could be possible.

9:57

It was really a way to support folks who had been on the front lines at ‘the ledge’
and weren’t able to be together to process what had happened.

10:07

And so that was a big piece of
of wanting to bring folks together. So, yeah, that was a really important part of it all.

10:15

Marika, did you want to share a bit? Yeah. For me, the invitation to be a part of this project

10:22

came at a time when I was yeah, the invitation came at a time when I wasn’t…

10:31

I was choosing to, like, not be involved in very many things.

10:36

And I think different people have had a different journey
through COVID.

10:42

And for me, I really felt like the ground move underneath

10:48

me and I did not feel like I had the

10:55

confidence or the vision to just kind of keep forging forward
and most of my projects

11:00

and most of the things that I was working on before
COVID have been mostly put on pause.

11:08

And I’ve just been really processing the changing environment
and how different things are.

11:14

And going back to kind of the very simple core parts of my life.

11:21

So there hasn’t been many things that I have committed to
or been a part of through this time.

The Invitation

11:28

But when the invitation came to be a part of this project,
there was a few things that just

11:37

I couldn’t say no, it forced me to like not be able
to turn the opportunity down,

11:43

even though I was feeling very inactive and uncertain
about how I wanted to continue with my community work, or

11:50

just like what could possibly land right in this environment of,
you know, a roller coaster of crisis and

12:00

people not being able to gather in person and us being forced to kind of like do our best with connecting

12:07

over social media or through Zoom or through other ways, which aren’t usually the methods that I lean towards first.

12:18

So I felt like pretty tentative and nervous about it. But then I also was really, really excited to work with Marianne.

12:26

I’m a huge fan of Marianne’s past work. The projects she’s done have always been really exciting
and filled me with a lot of inspiration.

12:38

But also, one of the main aspects to the project that Marianne pitched was the creation of collaborative curtain,
which happens to be an art form

12:50

that I have been really studying
and focusing on for the last few years

12:57

and wanting to keep that art form alive and healthy in our communities.

13:02

And I’ve been studying
and learning about that in my own community.

13:07

The role and the importance of curtains and the care of them
and all of those elements really inspire and excite me.

13:17

So the idea of working on a curtain together seem like
just a wonderful, wonderful, healing project to be a part of.

13:26

I also went down and participated for a little bit
with some of the

13:31

ceremony down at ‘the ledge’
and it was really heartbreaking to see the momentum and the beauty of that space and the young people
and how brave they were.

13:41

And then watch as that kind of dispersed,
how everyone went into such intense isolation

13:49

was really concerning for many of us wondering…
knowing how this can play out

13:56

and how it has happened in the past
where there’s so much excitement and good energy and wonderful.

14:02

But also there’s this really important
part of processing and understanding what’s happened.

14:09

And I don’t know how much of that we’re able to do
just in isolation on our own.

14:15

I think ideally we continue to gather and learn and process
and digest that experience together.

14:23

And for me, as someone who’s an artist,
usually that processing and digesting involves

14:29

like creative expression involves creating projects
that help to digest and process those things that have happened.

14:37

So yeah, it was just kind of like a perfect fit for me. And I’m really grateful that I did agree to be involved
because I kind of put the Holding Ground and our process together

14:50

and our commitment to see this through in the best way possible,
really like pulled me out of a place of deep inactivity and,

14:57

and got me moving again in the community and with other artists,
which I feel really, really appreciative of.

15:06

Thank you. I feel like so much of… like a big part of what happened in
this process was very intimate

15:15

with the group that was invited in and the gatherings we had that
led up to the physical thing, which was the exhibition

15:24

but it felt like what happened in the exhibition and what Marianne was able to share with us
in terms of the design and the making of the curtain

15:33

was a culmination of everything that happened
in those gatherings together for those months leading up.

15:39

So I wonder if, you know, just to give folks a sense
of, while still honoring the intimacy of what happened,

15:45

with individuals and all of us in that group, if we can find a way
to maybe articulate a bit about what happened in that space

15:54

and if we can talk a bit about what
we kind of shaped for the time in those spaces? It’s interesting.

16:02

I think there’s a spiritual element to the process, investment in the process, and really this idea of preparation.

16:12

What does that really look like? And I think in the Western colonial world, often
that has to do with formal qualities and for Indigenous peoples,

16:22

it’s actually much more about spiritual qualities,
and we don’t honor that enough within institutions,

16:28

whether they’re governance institutions like the legislature,
which was kind of basically not allowing the presence

16:35

and the spirit of the Indigenous
young people who were present outside

16:41

its doorstep, you know, literally
barring them from entry and participation in that system

16:46

and then to challenge the gallery to assist, to create a space

16:51

that would at least allow an expression that was more aligned with Indigenous ways
of being than simply production, formal production.

17:02

And so the meetings that took place were absolutely essential
in that there was a practice that was being established there

17:11

that was really based on sharing collectivity, vulnerability and support in human expression.

17:21

And I was really moved and honored at the truth

17:26

of some of the sharing that was done in that circle,
in that environment, because it’s the rawness of human feeling

17:33

and emotion is often suppressed by colonial systems
and it’s soul crushing.

17:40

So this process to agree to walk through together
in these kind of extensive

17:46

meetings, meeting up, sharing of minds sharing of ideas,
sharing of human experience

17:51

prior to establishing what the actual exhibition was going to be,
you know, it was almost like when you prepare the ground, you know,
you take time to prepare the ground and you prepare it well.

18:02

And then what grows and flourishes
through that effort, you know, is built on that preparation.

18:09

And so, you know, the privileging of process over product it was a really lovely process to participate in and

18:19

these kind of weird
hierarchies of authority were kind of removed from that setting.

18:26

And what we had instead was the sharing of human experience and it was extraordinarily beautiful in that
it was intergenerational.

18:35

So we had all these people at different stages of their lives
and their experiences sharing together.

18:40

And there was no sense of authority
as to how that should be laid out or,

18:48

you know, what was appropriate, what was inappropriate, etc.. You know, like

18:54

Nikki and Marika in particular really laid out a…

18:59

like helped to build an environment
that would allow that process to take place in a safe way.

19:05

And then it seemed like the artworks that ended up
being created as they were introduced into the space over

19:13

time really also broke away from this idea that you would put up
a show, it will show, and then it’ll come down

19:19

And the expressions that came out from the work
that was being done, I was just really humbled.

19:25

That would be the word, humbled by those expressions. Yeah, the whole process was really quite transformative, just from
a personal, and as a representative of the institution too

19:41

in terms of a model that we were able to share with the other
folks at the gallery to show that there’s other ways of doing.

19:47

I think that aspect of it was so… was such a gift to, you know, us imagining other ways of doing.

19:56

And I feel really committed to making sure that, like,

20:01

everything that took shape and that we learned in that process
that we don’t lose that right, that that gets built on.

20:07

And we can add to that. Yeah. And I’m just thinking, Nikki, you were so, you know,
knew a lot of the folks so well that were invited in and

20:18

you know, it was great to see folks… As Marianne said there wasn’t
necessarily like a hierarchy that was created in that space.

20:25

And so folks who were taking part would offer
their skills at different points in the gatherings
and shared different things to support the group.

20:35

And I just wondered if you had anything to share about
the people you knew who took part

20:40

and what it felt like to
watch that all unfold in the space with them.

20:46

Yes. I think, you know, that heartbreaking experience that Marika talked about, like,
I really went through that

Rekindling Community

20:58

because the juxtaposition of like coming together
to create this alternative space

21:04

that was guided by ceremony
and like really fueled by love and commitment

21:10

to one another and to the land
and then to go from that into like a lockdown.

21:18

And for everyone, while we were processing the trauma
of the outcomes of the occupation of the legislature,

21:26

for us to be isolated and also facing this like unprecedented

21:32

modern reality. I felt like it was such a blessing
and with so much wisdom

21:40

that you and Marianne, you know, kind of cultivated this vision
because it enabled

21:47

this opportunity to reconnect folks
who had otherwise been separated from one another.

21:53

And then also, when Marika brought in the

21:58

suggestion that rather than have it be youth focused, we really have it be focused
not about someone’s age, but about the work that they’re doing

22:07

and how they’re contributing to community
and what they have to share.

22:12

And so then bringing in folks who were at different stages of
their lives and maybe didn’t have anything to do at all with the

22:21

occupation of the legislature,
it felt like this rekindling of community, you know,

22:27

and it really allowed for…
and this is something that I feel so sad about.

22:32

It allowed for us to have space to get to know each other
and to learn to love each other,

22:38

not out of like crisis and not out of necessity
and not because you know, we’re having to come together

22:46

to fight for something, but to actually just have an opportunity
to be with one another and take time

22:52

and co-create and collaborate. And I think about the process
that we went through as a group.

23:00

And I feel like there’s two phases, right? And this beautiful phase of us… again and again, Gerry Ambers,
A Soft Place To Land,

23:10

her feather nest, it’s in my heart for life now. But we spent so much time,
the four of us, cultivating a soft place for people to land

23:22

and there was just so much care
and also a lot of faith and courage in that process.

23:27

Because, like Marianne said,
we divorced ourselves from these tangible externalized

23:34

objectives and really put faith in spirit and our intention.

23:40

And then once we had felt this soft nest
to welcome people into, it was then everything took

23:49

on a whole new life as well because we had so many other people
contributing to this space that was created.

23:55

And it was really like,
I think for me, that was the first time in my life that I’ve

24:02

gone through an entire process with a formal institution
like an art gallery where it wasn’t dominated by colonial values.

24:10

And like these are measurements and objectives
but it was really we modeled it in a very, very different way.

24:17

And I really hope to have the opportunity to do so many more processes
like that in the future because it felt fundamentally different.

24:26

And also it didn’t feel like we’d created a curriculum for people

24:31

to impose on people or all of these things for people to do,
because we decided that that’s what they should do.

24:39

But we truly, when we opened up the group
and began our work together in the larger group,
it still remained really a co-creation and that reflexivity

24:49

allowed for people’s like their gifts and their contributions
and their insights

24:54

to be delivered to the whole group. And so the other piece of that too, that was so cool was like it was constantly emerging and revealing itself to all of us.

25:05

Yeah, thank you so much, Nikki. And I’ve said this to you all as well,
but like in this experience, it had a lot of layers to it.

The Layers

25:16

It was really intimate. There was a lot going on for people in the process. So we shared some really intense time together.

25:23

But what was so kind of beautiful to witness was how consistently
generous and kind everyone was through the entire process.

25:32

Even when things got built up and, you know, moving towards the exhibition,
which can be a stressful time trying to work those dynamics.

25:40

But I was so appreciative of just…
and it’s weird to use the word consistent, but it just feels like

25:48

everyone was just contributing and sharing and being part of it in a way that they just brought so much care
and respect to the process. And

25:58

I just really appreciated that. And again, it’s such a beautiful model
to see, of what’s possible.

26:13

Yeah, we were so… like when we started working on this project, I felt like we were, or I was, so surrounded by people
that were just completely overwhelmed,

Overwhelmed

26:24

like completely overwhelmed
with the things that they had committed to, what was going on.

26:30

You know, so many people that were like really struggling
to maintain their commitments to their full time work

26:37

or other things that they had said they would do and trying
to like pivot and create. And like it was just so overwhelming,

26:44

and being involved with this project,
like knowing that that was where we were at…

26:52

And for me, I feel like I would watch
people get excited about projects and be really into them and then like two weeks later
something would happen and then like, you know,

27:00

sustaining what they were excited about before,
like it was just so unknown and touch and go

27:05

with what was happening in our communities, that it forced us I feel like to really push back and reimagine
our relationship to like productivity based work.

27:18

And I really appreciate that we explored that, the violence of that, of when it’s only important,
like what you produce, how violent that is to…

27:31

and it goes completely against our way of being,
and Marianne’s right.

27:38

Like that has been the basis of so many different
relationships with institutions and art galleries.

27:44

And it’s just whatever is left
is the quality of what stands in the room, right?

27:51

And so I really, really learned a lot from going into a project and deliberately dismantling that together.

27:59

And it was so transformative to me to be in a project
where the basis and the most important focus

28:07

was our relationship and the well-being of each other
and that whatever came out of it was just bonus to those things

28:15

that framework. And from that place of knowing
that it’s most important that people feel welcome to come

28:23

as they are to contribute whatever they have to offer,
knowing that people may dip in and out from week to week

28:31

making the call in the beginning that, you know, we would disburse the funds we had in this way,
regardless of people’s participation was really transformative

28:40

for me, and really accepting the project
as it unfolded and releasing from myself like my own expectations

28:50

that one part of me that I think has been ingrained through
probably the public school system,

28:57

just like mainstream employment,
all these things where you’re supposed to like achieve these goals, you know, nonprofit grant writing
where you like… all that stuff.

29:08

It teaches you to guide projects
and coordinate projects in a certain way.

29:16

And this project, for me,
it was like the complete opposite of that. It was like everyone understanding that we’ll just

29:25

create the best space we can
and people will come in and out as they want to. And what feels right for them and whatever is created is created.

29:34

And whoever wants to be a part of this part
can be a part of this part. And if people want to step forward
and take on more then they’re welcome to

29:42

and in that release was like this pleasant
surprise of generosity, of consensually giving that you’re

29:50

not like obligated to produce three pieces or whatever,
you can put something in if you like to.

29:57

What would you like to put in? What size would you like? Okay, you’ve got energy for this and that, that’s great.

30:02

And receiving that, knowing that it’s coming
from a place of generosity rather than obligation was beautiful.

30:10

And yeah, it’s an experience
that I think I’m probably still kind of processing

30:17

and I really do hope to carry into other things
because I feel like the opposite of that has, you know…

30:26

I can see in other projects that I’ve been involved in
where people have been struggling with other things in their life

30:33

or other parts of life and not able to like meet the deadlines
or get things done exactly the way they want to all the time

30:41

and really feeling like we’ve failed,
you know, and being so hard on ourselves,

30:47

not meeting what we agreed to do. And just being so much more open and flexible with those things

30:54

and understanding that everyone showing up with the intention
of giving whatever that they have to give, offers

31:01

so much of a better space, more creative and rich space, I feel.

31:07

Yeah, I felt really excited about how that played out. I don’t know if I’m articulating it right
and if anyone feels like they can really, like,

31:16

explain that in different words or you know…
I think you articulated that so well.

Invisible Architecture

31:23

And what I would add is that so often

31:29

when institutions or organizations
try to create an Indigenous space, or like you know,

31:38

a female centric space or people of color space, they will change
the internal components to be reflective of that.

31:46

But they won’t change
like the invisible architecture of the programing. Right?

31:52

So all of the things that you just said, Marika,
about like deadlines and expectations

31:57

and all the ways that we make our relationships transactional,
you know,

32:03

we can be making a curtain
but be doing it in a very colonial way.

32:08

And there’s like those relationships are violent
and it’s often really hard to see, and be able to name

32:15

why, because the systems are just kind of like,
this is just how we do it, right?

32:22

This is just how it’s been done. And so the reason for me that I feel like
this experience felt fundamentally different than others

32:32

that I have done that maybe had similar objectives
is because the invisible structure, like that

32:38

which guides the process, which creates the feeling, creates
the experiences, but is invisible, we really,

32:47

we really dismantled that and approached this
in a completely different way. And that felt so good. And it felt so good as well, like as

32:57

a facilitator
to not feel as though I needed to pressure people to deliver.

33:03

And we could like uphold that just their participation
to whatever degree if they were there or not,

33:10

whether they put a piece in the art show at the end
that wasn’t significant.

33:16

We knew that the experience was going to be
what each person needed it to be for them at that time.

33:23

And there was so much consent there and that felt so good and also so rare.

33:32

Yeah, the discussion around our effort
to make the project

Consent

33:39

more consent based was really, really important framing for me
and that each person could choose what they offered

33:48

and in what way they offered it was a consent both ways
and it could be renewed

33:53

and checked back in on. That was really important. I would say as well, you know, if we were ever to have the opportunity to do something like this again

34:03

my only… like I feel
if we had had the ability to maintain the gallery space

34:09

for a year rather than a few months, those waves of contributions and that kind of rotating exhibition,
I feel like there would have been so many more waves.

34:20

And that was the other thing, right? That’s so critical to understand is that, you know,
because of the very nature of the issues

34:29

that brought this project into being,
which is these legacies of resistance and the necessity

34:37

at this time in Canada for people to actually have to be on frontlines, as a way to protect their sovereignty
and their community and their land base.

34:47

The fact that we were able to have that space,
and knowing that even as we were doing this thing,

34:54

hoping to process the movements
and frontline actions of the past, others were emerging.

35:02

You know, Fairy Creek was emerging. And we had young ones going back into another highly charged

35:10

police surveilled situation while they’re in this process
of creating art and reflecting on their past movements.

35:19

And I think that’s a reality too, that for the foreseeable
future will always be

35:24

true is that you don’t get to like
stop and walk away and process because

35:30

the things that incentivize the need to be an activist
or community organizer, those demands continue to come.

Space

35:39

Yeah, it felt really important the space that was given
and you know at

35:45

the stage of the exhibition and how there was different… how it built up. At the beginning
there was a selection of folks who contributed work.

35:55

And then I think we had two or three more iterations where more work would be added and added and things got shifted around.

36:02

And then the curtain being that anchor that was consistent
all the way through in the center of the space.

36:07

But, you know, what was, I think, really exciting
about giving that space is that for some folks,

36:12

their contributions came closer to the end. But then to see what that meant for them,
to have work in there, to go through that process.

36:22

And then when we had the closing gathering with the group,
with those who could come

36:27

and folks coming in and some of them weren’t from here, like that
was, you know, Zoom wasn’t ideal, but we were allowed to connect with folks who might not
have been able to be part of it if we did it in person. Right?

36:38

And so for some folks, it was their first time coming
to the gallery or being with everyone in person in the group.

36:44

And then to see their work… yeah, those were super cool moments.

36:49

I mean, that, you know,
you can’t quantify that in a grant report. You know, when people say, what are the deliverables
how did you succeed?

36:57

It’s like, you know, the impact of it is not measurable that way.

37:08

I would say as well, and for anyone listening to this
who wants to create something similar

Paying participants

37:17

in the spaces that they work or organize

37:22

another thing that was really significant for me
was that we were able to pay our participants, you know,

37:29

and like in a meaningful way
and not just with a really flimsy honorarium,

37:35

but to really like just demonstrate
that we are giving value to their time and their contribution

37:42

that felt so unique

37:47

for one, and like so meaningful and important,
especially given that we know

37:53

how much sacrifice is being made by so many of these women
to be able to show up as activists.

37:59

And a lot of that is financial sacrifice.
And the sacrifice of security. And so to be able to compensate for time in a meaningful way,
to demonstrate, because we live in a capitalist society,

38:11

to demonstrate that we were giving time and money, because what
they have to contribute is of value. That felt really good.

38:19

I was wondering, Nicole, if you could speak to your own experience in regards
to being a part of this project, because you came on board

38:26

as kind of the curatorial rep for the institution,
but that must have come with its own challenges.

38:33

And one of the things that,
you know, moving ahead into the future and

38:39

the attempt from institutions to engage at these levels, what were some of the challenges that you faced
that are going to be inevitable?

38:48

And how did you kind of work your way through that? Yeah, I mean, it was an interesting year in so many ways

38:58

in 2021 the gallery was going through a major time of transition as well when this program launched.

39:06

And, you know, I think it was so important

39:12

for me to have the slow build with the four of you in terms of,
I mean, the longer term relationship that you and I have had

39:20

Marianne was really key to all of this because we’ve worked on things before
and we’ve been in conversation for a long time.

39:27

So I, you know, I feel like, I had a starting point that felt like it was different
than if I was working with somebody new, right?

39:36

Like, I felt like we were starting at a point
where we were further in and then having that really fulsome time

39:43

with you and Nikki and Marika to really put intention and thought…

39:49

because so much of the pace we work at sometimes
is just like, it’s producing, it’s pumping things out, and

39:57

that doesn’t always feel good. Right? It’s not conducive to the type of work we’re trying to do. And so, that felt like such a gift
to have that time to really build things well. And then, you know,

40:10

and taking that back to my colleagues and getting bigger buy
in from the institution, there was a lot of support there.

40:18

I think everyone understood
that this was really important work that was happening,

40:23

but it does test people because in theory, it’s one thing to agree
to the kind of work that needs to be happening in institutions

40:32

that’s really systemic and transformative, but it’s another thing
to actually start doing it and really seeing what that means,

40:39

what that commitment means. So, you know, logistically
in terms of the process, I felt like there was a lot of support.

40:46

I mean, our collections and prep team were amazing
in terms of the flow of the shifting of the exhibition,

40:53

having to roll out in the way it did
and be evolving and not a static thing.

40:58

And just the care that they were giving to the work in the space
and the people we were working with.

41:03

So I felt like there was a lot of support in so many ways. And I believe there’s intention to

41:12

to keep this going,
this type of work to keep building on this model

41:18

but we have a lot of ways of doing that are so ingrained in us. Right? And it’s these… Marika was alluding to the institutions
and systems that were a part of that teach us

41:30

a way of doing, and a pace of working at, and an intensity, and the structure that we follow.

41:36

And so sometimes it’s hard for people
to really imagine doing things in other ways,

41:42

like really fully, truly and deeply.

41:47

And so, you know,
I think that’s part of our challenge moving forward. We have a lot of new people coming on board, last year
and into this coming year.

41:57

And so we’re still in a big time of transition. And all of those people bring vision and ideas
that they can contribute, and will, you know?

42:05

I think a big part of us
being able to build on this kind of work and keep it going is will.

42:14

And not being afraid of the stuff
that we don’t know how to do yet

42:19

because we didn’t know how to do this going into it,
we weren’t sure what it was or,

42:25

but we were careful in what we did,
and then we talked to people,

42:30

we were transparent about what we were offering
and asking. And asked for feedback. So that felt good.

42:37

And as Nikki said, it feels good to pay people like that’s so essential to acknowledge people’s time

42:46

but I feel in a way, we were kind of lucky last year
because it was a time of transition. And I think I was able to run with a lot of things in a way
I might not have been in other times. So,

42:57

but I know that there is a lot of will
to keep moving in these directions.

43:03

So that feels good. Yeah. But yeah, I’m not sure what else to say. It’s interesting
to see you frame a time of turbulence as a time of opportunity

43:14

you know, and when you were talking,
I kept thinking about the legislature and how different our political landscape would be if,
you know, the presence of the Indigenous

43:24

activism on those steps was taken seriously, and there was space
that was allowed for those ideas and those ways of being.

43:32

And what is being fought for, it could be transformative. And right now in society, we are facing incredible turbulence
and it’s not going to stop.

43:41

It’s going to escalate. And so maybe we can take hope in that through that turbulence,
we are open to new ways of being

43:50

because it is really with Indigenous worldviews
that there is an anchor of hope there.

43:56

Yeah, this project definitely…
and I think I’ve shared that with you all, it did feel like an amazing…
It grounded me in an otherwise kind of tumultuous time. And so,

44:08

I mean, that’s the takeaway for folks
if they’re trying to really do this work in a significant way, that when it’s really happening,
it’s actually really grounding,

44:19

because it can feel scary to a lot of people
that it’s unfamiliar. The learning curve is steep, or

44:26

You’re, you know, you’re stepping so far away
from what you’re used to, maybe in some cases. But

44:31

I just found it to be a really grounding experience.

Setting the groundwork

44:40

And also like really affirmative in the power
of having really clear articulated intentions going in.

44:49

Like, we really took the time to be really clear with each other
and kind of talk it through

44:55

and really set the ground work,
which made an enormous difference.

45:00

Like that gives me a real sense of hope
that you can really sit down with someone and be like

45:06

these are the most important things
going into this project for us, and really knock that together.

45:13

It’s something that you can come back to, you know. Are
we still staying true to like a good reflective space?

45:20

And it actually can set you in a different direction. Like that’s really important.

45:26

A sense of hopefulness, you know, a new possibility. Yeah, and I just wanted to say too, for all of you,

45:34

I just really appreciated your directness, and honesty with me as well in the process,
because, you know,

45:41

that was the only way
we were going to get to where we needed to get to. And we didn’t all know each other

45:47

at the beginning. Right. And so, yeah, I really appreciated that

45:53

trust that you had in me, to be honest and direct

45:59

and yeah, it made for some really great conversations,
not just about this project,

46:04

but we talked about… It covered so much
when we were thinking through this and was really expensive,

46:10

you know, the preliminary conversations
that built up all of this. Now that I think of it I’m

46:17

pretty certain I could say that the three of you are the people
I’ve spent the most time on Zoom with,

46:25

cumulatively, because we did. Like when you kind of
go back through all of our planning meetings

46:31

and then all of our group meetings and everything
and, you know, some of our preliminary…

46:37

like when we were constructing the soft place to land together,
and conceptualizing it, some of those calls went on for 3 hours.

46:45

We really spent so much time. But like I was thinking about what Marianne said, about
how we’re in a time

46:56

where we’re at a threshold and unfortunately,
things are going to actively have to collapse and break,

47:04

break down in order for change to come.
And because of the pandemic and the ways that that’s

47:13

really taken us away from that intangible things
that give us strength, like, you know, spending time,

47:24

being in cultural spaces, sharing food, coming together, like, you know, music…
All of these things that fill our spirits up. Right?

47:34

That give us strength and allow us to connect into a source
that’s bigger than ourselves and tap into that power

47:42

that we can access when we move together, when we come together, and when we work in solidarity.

47:50

And that was so acutely apparent at ‘the ledge’ and then it was all taken away.

47:56

And so, you know, for me, I feel like there’s
so little value in our society as it currently exists,

48:03

around the value of community building and the value
of relationship building and tending to one another and caring

48:11

for each other,
not for a specific outcome or not for one reason,

48:17

but because that in itself is so worthwhile,

48:22

it’s of so much value. And so I feel like
that was a piece of what we did. We spent a year,

48:30

we dedicated a year to,
how can we cultivate really beautiful connection

48:36

and community so that we can give each other strength
and be light for each other in a really dark time.

48:44

Yeah, there were some amazing moments in those… I mean, who would think in a Zoom call you could just be
so touched and moved by each other in this virtual space.

48:52

But there was some really significant moments
in those times together. So yeah, I really appreciated that.

49:00

So, I mean, I feel like you all have shared,
quite fully in terms of the impact of the project.

49:06

And I’m just wondering if,
you know, because I think a key piece of

49:12

when we’re working with folks,
we want to make sure that the projects they’re working on with us, relate to the work they’re doing.

49:17

And I think from what you all said, that’s part of why you joined
this project was

49:22

because it was connecting to things you were interested in doing
or would support the work you were already doing in some way.

49:29

Do you want to share a bit about what you’re working on now? Or if there’s things that came from this project

49:37

that you were building on or not related to this at all,
but just where things are going for you from here?

49:42

I think for me it has always been part of my intention
to really question these relationships

49:48

in an equitable relationship
between colonial institutions and Indigenous communities, and peoples.

49:55

You know, I grew up under conditions where my small community
has been extracted from, by academic institutions,

50:02

galleries, museums… you know, capacity, humans.

50:07

We have a small community now, around 65 people.

50:12

When I left home to go to school,
there was maybe 100, 125 in the summer, lots of children. We’re down to 65.

50:19

The future of our community is uncertain
and I’m in the process of trying to return to my community

50:25

to bring my own personal capacity back to community,
to try and help with the community’s longevity.

50:31

And part of that is to highlight
the colonial process of destruction and extraction

50:38

and to demand that if people are going to even consider
the word reconciliation, that means giving up space.

50:46

That means land back. That means enough space for Indigenous voice to be expressed
and to be listened to.

50:53

And I am frustrated. I’m frustrated with the institutions,
I’m frustrated with the legislature and their incapacity

51:00

to provide space to listen, to be present,
other than as an authoritative dictator.

51:06

And so for me, I continue this work
to really call institutions, academic institutions,

51:13

artistic institutions, museum institutions, to task.

51:18

To look at what does truly remaking this relationship look like. And trying to provide a more equitable experience
for us as Indigenous peoples,

51:30

where we’re not always being extracted from,
you know, where there’s an actual return. So, yeah, I’m really passionate about that, and I seem to be
speaking up more about it and less concerned about, I guess,

51:42

you know, like fitting in. Fitting into institutional spaces
as they exist. I don’t want to fit in anymore.

51:49

And so having some success under our belts
in engaging with an institutional space in this way,

51:57

it has really emboldened me to keep speaking out about it
and to keep advocating for it and to try and center

52:03

my practice in a way that is empowering of Indigenous voice
and not disempowering.

52:09

So I’m excited going ahead.

Dealing with COVID19

52:15

Yeah, for me, going through COVID
has been a huge process of completely dismantling

52:21

everything that I was doing before
and kind of breaking everything down to a complete ground level

52:28

and then slowly starting to build up a new structure
and way of being

52:34

that works for me in an environment
where things are constantly changing and the future feels

52:43

increasingly uncertain. And what I need in that space is different.

52:49

And so I do think that obviously this has been an enormous tragedy, and so much stress, and there’s been so much

52:57

loss of many things, not just, you know, lives,
but it has put an enormous stress on our communities.

53:03

And we’re also going through great climate grief,
but not being able to just continue

53:11

in the wheel, the habitual wheel I was on before.
I was just going through the motions of this

53:17

cycle of productivity, and the types of things
I was involved in, and the way I usually operate in life.

53:24

And really, COVID completely blew that all up.

53:29

But I do also think there has been an opportunity
there for me to completely clear out

53:36

my entire space and reassess, what is actually important to me?
What is actually of value to me?

53:42

I think also going out there and being involved with

53:48

Fairy Creek was an enormously transformative experience in my perspective.
And I’ve been processing, kind of like, all of these things

53:58

that I’ve learned about myself through this great upheaval
and kind of disorientation.

54:04

And I am starting to feel a sense of moving forward,
just now, maybe in this spring.

54:13

And what is emerging for me
more than anything is how important it is

54:19

to center relationships and connection.
And if you approach your life

54:26

on the basis of like centering your relationships
and your connections to others, it’s a completely different frame

54:34

than if you’re kind of putting things
in different compartments of,

54:39

these are the people I work with and this is my family
and this is my friend and this is my partner.

54:44

But really approaching life based on the understanding
that connection and relationship are

54:51

the most important life ways from which to operate from.
It’s kind of getting me into a different way of thinking

54:59

and the way that I’m approaching
becoming more active in my life.

55:06

There’s quite a few people that do work in our community around healing from residential school trauma and one of the teachings

55:15

that’s filtered down from me that sticks with me
a lot is when we’re traumatized, often like we shrink.

55:23

We’ve been hurt, right? We’ve been traumatized.
Something’s happened. And as a self-protection, you may shrink and limit

55:31

and pull in, in a way to protect yourself
from that happening again. But in reality, in order to move forward

55:41

healing from trauma, we have to actively rebuild
those relationships and connections, to like move out.

55:49

And we think that shrinking in is like safer. But the correction is connection.

55:54

And to me, that makes a lot of sense, for me. And so I don’t know what that looks like in terms of,
what project am I working on,

56:04

but I know that strengthening my relationships
and moving out has been my core process through this.

56:13

Like starting with my intimate life,
the people that I was cocooned with, in my little bubble in my house,

56:18

my family. Moving slowly up to the people that I’m in constant relationship around, just their well-being,

56:24

and people that we’re very connected to checking in on how we are. And then like, moving out to the people in my life

56:32

that I go to, that
I have one of those kind of inspiring relationships…

56:38

You know, people you run into, you just love talking with them
because it just kind of stimulates you. And there’s something about them, something about the way
you connect with each other that brings both of you

56:48

renewed perspective and energy in whatever it is
that you’re interested in or processing at that moment.

56:56

And moving out from there feels like the best way forward for me.

57:02

Thank you, Marika. Yeah, thank you, Marika,
that was so beautiful. I mean, it’s so… I feel like since the onset

57:11

of the pandemic and the outcome of the legislature occupation,

57:17

that it’s felt like a whirlwind,
and it’s really hard to know up from down.

57:24

And here in Victoria, the impacts of the pandemic have meant that

57:30

housing is almost impossible to find,
and even more impossible to afford.

57:37

And I so resonate with what Marika was saying about how the pandemic really offered an opportunity
to reevaluate

57:46

what truly matters and what we are making our lives about, where we’re giving the energy and focus of our lives.

57:56

And so while on the one hand,
white the pandemic has helped me to strip away paradigms

58:04

of colonization and compliance
within capitalism and upholding values

58:10

that do not align with, you know, what my heart believes in
and who I want to be as a human being,

58:19

at the same time, all of the ways
that the structures of extractive capitalism, colonialism,

58:25

patriarchy are working on, not only me,
but the young people that I came to be so close with

58:34

throughout ‘the ledge’ occupation and also deepened through our project together.

58:40

Like there hasn’t been a single month
that has gone by where I wasn’t either trying

58:45

to find housing or fundraising for someone
just to cover basic necessities. And that includes myself, you know, at different times.

58:54

And so while it’s this really crazy kind of like

59:00

opposite processes happening simultaneously
where on the one hand I’m seeing more and more through

59:07

this mythology that’s been created as our value system
as an outcome of capitalism.

59:13

And the more that I’m like mentally detaching myself from that

59:18

in my physical lived reality,
what it takes to just exist right now

59:24

requires so much effort and like strategy and problem-solving,
and especially

59:31

because I’m not just trying to do that
for my individual well-being, but with a consciousness

59:37

and a commitment, a sense of accountability to the young ones
who are coming up in this time.

59:43

And like, I can’t imagine what it would be like
to be going through this… like I’m 35 and this feels

59:50

really daunting and it makes me like want my mummy. And so I’m thinking for these young ones,
who are just off on their own for the first time,

1:00:00

and trying to begin their life as independent individuals
to be navigating through all this,

1:00:07

It really, you know… my heart is really, really tender for the challenges of that.

1:00:13

And so in my work,
you know, I’m still very much committed to finding ways

1:00:19

that we can take these intersections
of the wealth that comes from within us that is infinite

1:00:26

that is truly, you know, where we’re going to find the solutions,
where we’re going to envision

1:00:31

what other ways of economies and governance
and things that are possible, where we’re going to reclaim the things
that have been taken from us and really trying to

1:00:41

as much as possible in, you know, a
multitude of different fields, bring that creativity

1:00:47

and that collective power that we can tap into
when we really do work together to bring it about.

1:00:53

And so, like, on the one hand, I feel so fulfilled and so lucky
and so grateful for the work that I get to do.

1:01:01

And then on the other hand, the sense of like scarcity and,

1:01:06

you know, pressure, the way that capitalism just grinds on you. It’s really painful.

1:01:13

And I really wish I was more than just a human being
so that I could just wave my hand and change it.

1:01:22

But I can’t. And I know that the only way that we can ultimately is when we remember how to come together and tap into that collective power.

1:01:30

So I guess that’s all to say too, that
I just believe so wholeheartedly

1:01:36

that the more processes like this one
that can come into existence, the more that we can take time

1:01:43

to celebrate and reveal the treasures
that we hold inside, the strengths, the insights,

1:01:50

the innovation that’s possible, the way that we have the capacity
to fuel one another to hold each other up…

1:01:57

Again, to be that light in the darkness in these times, I feel like the more we can have
processes, communities you know, art creation

1:02:06

times to sit together, not in a transactional way,
but just truly like basking in the glory

1:02:13

of what it means to have one another
and like how valuable that is, the better off we’d be.

1:02:19

And I know for me, the only way that I’m going to get through
this time is if I continue

1:02:25

to find or cultivate those spaces. Thank you Nikki, that was so beautifully said.

1:02:33

And I think you know, this kind of work is hard, right? Because it’s really human work.

1:02:39

And yeah, like if we had super powers, Nikki, that would be amazing

1:02:44

to wave a wand and make things change, but it is really,
as Marika said, that connection

1:02:49

and the coming together that keeps us,
you know, in a good place and I think that’s what this project

1:02:56

really did for all of us, not just the people we invited in,
but I think we all felt supported

1:03:03

by what was happening in that space or that that experience was
was helping us to do the work we needed to do.

1:03:09

So I think that is really a take away from all of this.
Is that collectively

1:03:15

so much more can happen when we do things collectively. And I think that’s one of the things
you pointed out too, Marianne, at the beginning,

1:03:21

and it was part of our conversations
was this isn’t about the individual, it was about the collective.

1:03:26

And that, I feel was really shared in the curtain design that you
created, Marianne, for everyone to contribute to and build.

1:03:35

So, yeah. Any other final thoughts? Marianne, do you want to have the last comment on this?

1:03:42

I feel like this was your brainchild, so I just wanted to… if there was any cumulative…

1:03:49

No, I was thinking like,
you know, the conversation that we’ve had, this is a good time
to kind of end that conversation. We covered a lot of ground.

1:03:58

And I’m really appreciative of the words that were shared today. And yeah, and I look forward to
what future endeavors look like.

1:04:06

And I’m really appreciative of this one. Yeah. And I walk away with hope and that does come from
that collective experience and it’s absolutely invaluable. So

1:04:17

I just wanted to say, [thank you in Kwak’wala] for that opportunity
to work with you guys on this, it’s really been an honor.

1:04:28

Marianne, Marika and Nikki,
thank you so much for joining me in this program and a huge thank you to all of the Indigenous Intergenerational Exchange
participants, including Gerry Ambers,

1:04:38

Aya Clappis, Ace Harry, Lisa Kenoras, Laura Manson, Jessica Mayhew, Miigwan Feather Reine Nault-Campeau,

1:04:46

Ross Neasloss Jr, Stephanie Papik, Coral Shaughnessy-Moon, Nabidu Taylor, and France Trépanier.

1:04:54

Each person contributed
so generously to this project in different ways. And a few of these wonderful folks have agreed to share
some additional thoughts about their experiences with us today.

1:05:04

Starting with Stephanie Papik. I guess, the gathering started during COVID
and it was a really just wonderful timing for me,

1:05:14

where a lot of change was happening in my life. And then this invitation emerged to be

1:05:22

a part of this gathering of Indigenous

1:05:27

youth, friends and Two Spirits. And it was a really beautiful place to be able to come together
and bring some closure to some of the events

1:05:39

that had happened earlier in the year, kind of pre-COVID and it was also just a beautiful way to be received…

1:05:48

brought in by community from artists, Indigenous artists and

1:05:57

land protectors
and that kind of like recognition and passing of the…

1:06:04

like kind of passing of the torch or acknowledgment of like

1:06:10

of having similar shared experiences,
generations prior. To know that

1:06:18

we’re not alone in this journey
and then having this space to come together

1:06:23

just to witness, to be heard, and to be nurtured.
It was really beautiful space.

1:06:30

Also with the forethought of just of that holding ground,
holding that space for the time to happen,

1:06:38

where each of the artists were able to have
that time to be creative and make something to offer.

1:06:46

And I think that foresight
to be able to have that vision of what could be helpful

1:06:55

in terms of creating and holding that space for everyone
to be able to

1:07:00

to share and offer their creative gifts

1:07:05

at their own time and pace,
especially during this time of a pandemic,

1:07:12

I think it’s just so beautiful. And then also how it brought so many of us together
to be able to work on it together.

1:07:23

And I think that really helped to see that for their sense of belonging and creativity
for each of us to be able to contribute.

1:07:37

Holding space for me comes a lot through… first, for me through circle practice,
and in creating a container for humans.

1:07:49

You know, humans
invariably innately want to be good and do the right thing.

1:07:57

And so creating that space for us to be our best selves.

1:08:03

And I have a background in science and an honors bachelor of science in biology, so I
always like to bring in the brain science,

1:08:14

and that’s also how our brains work too. You know, when we create spaces
that are nurturing, strength-based and productive,

1:08:22

it puts our brains in our prefrontal cortex. So it puts us in that planning,
thinking, compassionate part of our brain

1:08:31

versus when we’re in situations that don’t feel safe,
it activates our amygdala.

1:08:37

So our behavior responses
could be fight, flight, freeze or fawn.

1:08:43

And so that kind of creating space
for how we can be in relation to each other.

1:08:49

And so that same…
and then being able to hold that space.

1:08:54

And you need something like… And with humans, in circle,
holding that space, it’s helpful

1:09:00

to have someone sitting across from you. Kind of holding that
that center… holding that space together.

1:09:09

So similarly in that space… Holding space was the curtain.

1:09:14

It’s creating this foundation of belonging,
and grounded in the land, in the medicines of the land.

1:09:23

And so that’s what I mean by holding space. I don’t know if that makes sense?

1:09:28

It kind of felt like it was a fun space to be able to

1:09:34

explore different ways of expressing creativity there, whether it’s current pieces or some that I’ve done over time.

1:09:43

One of them was carving a Qulliq, an Inuit stone lamp
and I had done that

1:09:51

a while ago in terms of part of that reclaiming ancestral practices
and responsibilities

1:09:57

as being a young, or not so young… [laughter]

1:10:02

would have been normally, an Inuit woman and Two Spirit.

1:10:07

And so just showing some diversity and kind of,
you know, sometimes people…

1:10:14

I hear narratives like only work in one medium
or that kind of thing,

1:10:20

and just kind of breaking some of those narratives,
so including sculpture,

1:10:27

and then the piece that… there was one
I created in response to the gatherings

1:10:34

that we had over time and reflections
on past activities in terms of land protection.

1:10:42

And one of the beautiful gifts I saw in
that was the re-centering of Indigenous youth. Putting them back

1:10:49

into the center of the circle and how transformitive…

1:10:54

and what a beautiful thing to witness from kind of that,
you know, even myself in my younger years,

1:11:02

always feeling like I don’t belong, I’m messaged
that I’m not enough, all those kind of like

1:11:13

harmful societal messages given to Indigenous youth. So to like turn that on its head
now and center them and have everything focused on them.

1:11:26

And so the piece I did was putting the camas flowers in the center

1:11:32

of a circle. And a teaching from Mary Anne Thomas from Esquimalt Nation has shared over many years
how youth are flowers back home.

1:11:44

And I just love that analogy because when you see flowers
or plants and they’re suffering, what do you do?

1:11:52

Do you like chop bits off and stick them in the corner
and remove privileges

1:11:57

and punish the flower, you know?
Or, what helps it be nourished?

1:12:03

Right? You take care and attention. You make sure it has nourishment, and sun, and water, and so that’s the same piece for youth.

1:12:13

And I think that’s a bit of a
culture shift, from Western ways of being

1:12:21

that I’ve learned, for example, parenting versus my own Inuit culture. In that transformation of how

1:12:29

being generous and kind even in those moments.
And hard on the situation,

1:12:35

but kind on the person, which I think is just transformative. So that was the pencil crayon drawing that I offered. And also had lots of… So they’re kind of in a bubble, in a circle…

1:12:48

And then there was other bubbles too. And that’s another teaching from my Inuit culture, that our spirits are in a bubble in our body.

1:12:58

And I love learning about that,
because we hear this term white fragility and fair enough, it gets people’s backs up,
especially when you think about that neuroscience.

1:13:09

But when I learned about that concept of our spirits
being in a bubble like a little mini me inside a bubble
and when we pass on the bubble leaves our body.

1:13:20

So I just thought, oh wow, you know, we’re all fragile and it’s important to remember that in terms of,
of how we approach each other

1:13:30

with kindness and care,
even in times of urgency or hard times.

1:13:36

Yeah. It’s something I really appreciate, learning more about my culture. Like when someone passes on in your family,
and then somebody is born into your family,

1:13:48

they’ll often be given that name, and then they’re of that elder,

1:13:53

and then they’re treated with the same respect
as that elder, plus

1:14:00

whatever they gain through their own actions
and to their own words. And I just love that because…

1:14:07

Like I’ve learned as much,
if not more from Indigenous youth,

1:14:15

as Indigenous elders as well. You know, and like from my own children.
When you’re here, it’s for me

1:14:23

that I have to learn about my own biases,
my own blindspots and how to be

1:14:32

human in this world. I feel weepy with gratitude.

1:14:38

It’s been a very healing experience,

1:14:43

especially with that sense of belonging, you know, especially being an urban Inuk, displaced from my homelands

1:14:53

for most of my life, and often in the dominant culture,
not always feeling like I fit in, or belong.

1:15:01

And so being invited into that space was, yeah, it’s

1:15:07

just been a very nurturing, healing space.

1:15:12

And I’m really grateful
and honored to have been included.

1:15:18

I don’t always consider myself as an artist. So even that, being recognized in my community
and brought in just meant a lot to me.

1:15:32

I think the only thing I’d add
is that I’m calling in from Hul’qumi’num, which

1:15:37

a good friend and colleague Bradley Dick, his ancestors are from these lands taught me

1:15:44

that means ‘place of clay’
also known as ‘James Bay’ here in lək̓ʷəŋən Territory.

1:15:50

And deep gratitude that I have to the elders, and the youth, and community members from these nations

1:15:59

who’ve been really generous in sharing knowledge and teachings
that have helped me, how to learn, how to walk in a good way

1:16:06

while I’m a visitor here. And gratitude to you and the art gallery and everybody who’s been involved in supporting

1:16:14

making space for Indigenous people in practice and knowledge.
It’s so important during these times.

1:16:21

Thank you so much for sharing more about your experience
and your work in the exhibition, Stephanie.

1:16:26

Next, we’ll hear from Miigwan Feather Reine Nault-Campeau. My name is Miigwan Feather Reine Nault-Campeau.

1:16:33

Miigwan is Ojibwe for feather. And Reine is French for Queen. My art series is of Mother Earth,

1:16:42

and why is she so important to the First Nations people. I have a three piece series.
So the original one is just Mother Earth

1:16:50

and her image…
or my image on what a reconciled Canada should look like.

1:16:56

The second piece to the series is the creation story

1:17:03

for why… or for how Turtle Island formed to be.

1:17:08

So it’s the Anishinaabe creation story of Turtle Island.

1:17:13

And the third piece of the series is Mother Earth’s Prayers.

1:17:19

And then it speaks on how sick the earth is
and why she’s so important to us.

1:17:25

What smudging symbolizes
and how important the eagle is to us.

1:17:31

So there are just old teachings
and kind of new teachings blended in together into art pieces.

1:17:37

And I think it all ties in together
because Mother Earth is like the main base to who we are

1:17:46

as Indigenous people is like we are the children of the Earth
and we take care of our mother.

1:17:51

So we get all of our resources
and everything that we need from the land. That’s why she’s so important to us.

1:17:57

So all the other Indigenous peoples’ pieces in the space,
they talked about

1:18:05

similar ties to my series. Like lots were to do with healing… or yeah, it all just ties in, I feel.

1:18:18

the experience was awesome. Being able to come together
with other Indigenous artists

1:18:23

and talk about healing or what our visions are for the future
or how we have healed

1:18:31

or what works for us was really amazing to be able to work
with all Indigenous female artists and Two Spirited,

1:18:39

being able to come together
and have our art up in a space, in a gallery.

1:18:44

I think that was healing in itself for us to be able

1:18:49

to indigenizea space
and be able to have our stuff up on the wall.

1:18:55

It was a very sacred time for all of us to be able to come together and hold space for one another during a pandemic,

1:19:03

and still be able to create a beautiful space for the public
and for generations to see.

1:19:10

I got to connect with all the women. We got to put our heart and spirit onto the curtain,
our handprints and yeah, it was just fun and also healing.

1:19:20

Being able to come together and create something together
and be able to display it publicly for other people.

1:19:27

And so it was an awesome experience. And the people that I met are going to be like lifelong friends
now, and I’m really grateful

1:19:37

for that opportunity and experience
and how we’re all able to come together

1:19:42

and how everybody made it to Victoria.
It was a really beautiful experience.

1:19:50

Thank you, Feather. In closing, we’ll hear from Laura Manson,
who offered to read an excerpt from the text panel

1:19:57

that accompanied her woven cedar
mat in the Holding Ground exhibition.

1:20:02

[Laura Manson introduction in Nuu-chah-nulth]

1:20:09

Hello, my name is Laura Manson.
I am from the Tla-o-qui-aht First Nation. I’m a descendant of residential school survivors.

1:20:17

My parents attended the Christie Residential School,
located on Meares Island near Tofino, B.C.

1:20:22

It was an operation from 1900 to 1983. It closed one year before I was born.

1:20:29

I’m the eldest of four children.
My mother had me at the young age of 17. I was in and out of foster care for my first 16 years of life.

1:20:38

My siblings
spent anywhere from one to five years in foster care as well. I grew up disconnected not only from my family
but also from my culture and my traditions.

1:20:47

The majority of my time
in foster care was spent in a Catholic home. To belong I became a firm believer and practiced Christianity.

1:20:54

Then in my mid-thirties, I came out as bisexual on social media
platforms, which led me to walk away from Christianity.

1:21:01

I couldn’t follow a God that made me feel ashamed
for who I truly am. Within the last two or three years,
I have been reconnecting with my language, culture and traditions

1:21:10

alongside my daughter. We are beaders cedar weavers and proud
Indigenous women. Through reclaiming our culture and traditions

1:21:18

we have also reclaimed our sense of community and belonging,
which is how I became involved with this project.

1:21:26

This project is a two piece contribution to this exhibit. The first part is telling you my truth,
which includes the loss of my beloved brother.

1:21:35

The second part is sharing how I am holding ground. Truth: Culturally speaking, when we lose a loved one,

1:21:43

we do not use their name for a year. We’re supposed to put their photos away for the year as well.

1:21:48

This allows their spirit to move on to their next journey. If we use their name or look at their photo and grieve for them,

1:21:55

we’re essentially tying their spirit to this earth
and they cannot move on to their next journey.

1:22:00

However, my mother is willing to make an exception
because of how we lost him. My beloved brother was shot and killed by the police in my family
home on the Opitsaht reservation.

1:22:10

His name is Julian Jones,
and he was 28 years old when he was brutally killed. He was born
June 11th, 1992 and was taken from us on February 27th, 2021.

1:22:22

He was a loving and forgiving young man he loved so generously. He acknowledged everyone, stranger
or not. Every relation of his

1:22:30

he would call by name. He would acknowledge
an aunt as mom, an uncle as dad and cousin, as sister or brother.

1:22:38

I never knew him to hold a grudge. In more ways than one he was a bigger person than I am. Despite the age gap, eight years I loved and missed my brother
so much, I’m never getting him back.

1:22:48

His life was senselessly taken from us. I want you to pause for a moment and reflect
on what I have just shared with you.

1:22:55

Did you question? Was he carrying a weapon? Did he threaten the officer’s life? Did you try to criminalize him
or justify his death at the hands of police?

1:23:04

The truth is that I have been asked these questions
after disclosing the loss of my brother.

1:23:09

Holding Ground: Despite all of this anger and unbearable grief
I am desperately trying to reclaim

1:23:16

what was robbed of my own ancestors and robbed of my family
through the ongoing violence inflicted by residential schools.

1:23:23

Culture, tradition, and ceremony. These are my birth rates.

1:23:29

Anything I’ve learned over the years, I’ve had to seek for myself. A part of my healing involved a sacred ceremony
of being brushed off the day before my brother’s funeral.

1:23:39

The ceremony required us to hold onto a piece of spruce
in each hand and step on a piece as well.

1:23:46

We were to release what we were feeling at that moment
into the spruce. A gentleman was chanting Wolf Song and another gentleman
brushed us off with a Spruce Branch.

1:23:56

Once we were ready, we were directed to release
the spruce from our hands and throw them behind us.

1:24:02

Then we were to step forward onto a cedar woven mat.
The cedar mat you see woven here is a significant part

1:24:08

of my healing journey. Once stepping onto that mat, we are to think of what we wanted
from our ancestors in support us to move forward.

1:24:16

I personally was releasing anger and asking for strength
to forgive and heal from this unimaginable loss.

1:24:23

It is important to me to instill healthy and safe
coping mechanisms for my daughter Inktsu.

1:24:28

I do not want her to resort to unhealthy
coping mechanisms down the road like drugs or alcohol.

1:24:34

I want her to be able to lean on to our teachings
during trying times like these.

1:24:39

I want intergenerational trauma to end
or at the very least begin to heal with us.

1:24:45

So that there is the written piece for our contribution
to this art exhibit, Holding Ground.

1:24:51

And behind me here, you will see the cedar woven mat that my daughter and I wove together.

1:24:57

The cedar we harvested together from our own territory. And we spent about

1:25:03

6 to 8 hours weaving it together which in itself was a real honor and privilege, because that right was robbed of my mother with her mother.

1:25:13

And I would imagine with my late grandmother,
Rosemary Charlie and her mother.

1:25:21

And so just recognizing what a privilege
it is to not only harvest cedar, but also weave with cedar,

1:25:29

with the knowledge carried by other knowledge
keepers. Due to colonization,

1:25:34

this wasn’t a practice that I learned from my own parents
or my grandparents.

1:25:39

It was literally learned from YouTube. Yeah. So I recognize that it’s a real privilege to be able
to carry on this knowledge, although it may not be directly

1:25:49

from my family or my nation,
but it is a practice that will continue on.

1:25:56

So, yeah, thank you to the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria for this honor

1:26:04

and privilege of participating in this event. Holding Ground. Thank you, Marina and Nicole and other faculty

1:26:13

for holding space for us to continue to hold ground and contribute various pieces to this exhibit.

1:26:23

Just having space to acknowledge the trauma
and where I come from and the ongoing trauma

1:26:31

that my ancestors were robbed of, you know, to be told not to practice our culture, to be told not to practice
our traditions, to be told not to practice our language.

1:26:44

You know, has been really traumatizing and genocide. And so I just want to wrap up by saying thank you very much

1:26:53

I really appreciate this opportunity
to share my truth and how I’m holding ground.

1:27:05

Thanks again to Marianne Nicolson, Marika Swan, Nikki Sanchez,
Stephanie Papik,

1:27:11

Miigwan Feather Reine Nault-Campeau and Laura Manson
for sharing your time and thoughts with us today.

1:27:17

For those who want to learn more
about the Indigenous Intergenerational Exchange project, or the Holding Ground exhibition, visit aggv.ca

1:27:27

This is Work In Progress,
a podcast series created by the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria located on lək̓ʷəŋən Territory,
also known as Victoria, B.C.

1:27:36

Work In Progress is generously supported by Canada Council
for the Arts Digital Now Grant.

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