0:04

thank you

0:17

so before we go into the first panel session today I hope some of you had a

0:22

chance to take in some of the artwork that’s been installed in the gallery spaces and in the hallway on the main

0:29

floor and anticipating the panel coming up I just wanted to mention a few works

0:34

firstly a durational drawing performance titled mind waves by Michael Chang which

0:40

will be taking place intermittently today and probably tomorrow maybe tomorrow just outside the studio doors

0:47

and I’m sure that Michael will will refer to that in this discussion there’s

0:53

also an installation titled Bodhi rose mandala by croissants death occurs in

0:59

the ordained gallery just down the hall on your right and I think many of you have seen that and it’s adjacent to a

1:06

video work by Susan Stewart and I’m just gonna pull up my notes about Susan’s

1:13

work it’s called body not stupa kathmandu-nepal and I think krisann was

1:20

looking at the practice of circumambulating the stupa as a social

1:26

practice so and I also wanted to mention

1:34

Mike who booms video work that’s installed in the sculpture gallery down the hall it’s

1:40

titled soft animal body and seeing as we started the day with meditation and I do

1:45

recall James saying – nothin the front of your body so Mike was supposed to be

1:54

on the panel today but unfortunately he’s busy receiving awards for his work

2:00

in Europe and wasn’t able to make it out today but he did send us the video as a

2:07

kind of film lecture

2:15

so the first session is titled Buddhism as methodology and I’m just going to

2:22

read the blurb from the program notes examining a range of approaches to

2:28

artistic practice this panel explores the various ways by which Buddhism informs artistic inquiry correspondingly

2:35

considering the various meanings and interpretations of Buddhism in North America this idea that artists draw on

2:42

Buddhism as a methodology has been important for me in thinking about the relationships between art and Buddhism

2:49

in order to deepen the way we think about and understand an art object by

2:55

paying closer attention to the artists intention and process in creating a work

3:00

of art and moderating the panel today is Yasmin hacker and I have to say Kathryn

3:08

has made such a huge effort to be here today and I’m so appreciative Catherine’s kind of been connected to

3:14

this project from the very beginning stages and through all the processes of

3:19

grant writing and all the all the thinking that you go through when you think that you’re coming up with a crazy

3:26

idea and doesn’t make sense and what am I talking about so Kathryn has been

3:31

there right through it’s almost like three or four years now Kathryn hacker is a professor of merit

3:39

of our history visual art and theory at the University of British Columbia and

3:44

one of the founders of UBC’s Himalaya program she’s currently a collaborator

3:50

on a three-year shirk funded transdisciplinary project focused on Nepal’s post-earthquake reconstruction

3:56

and another ongoing project involving the visual documentation of endanger

4:02

endangered Buddhist wall paintings in the Kathmandu Valley with PowerBar painter loketh Roca so thank you so much

4:11

Catherine

4:18

so I’d also like to add my thank yous to Hema for conceptualizing and eventually

4:26

curating this really exciting event bringing us all together today and it’s

4:33

wonderful seeing it come to fruition over the course of our conversations in

4:38

this panel and indeed for the two days that we’re together we want to consider

4:44

how Buddhism or Buddhism’s as a paradigm of thinking and living has generated new

4:51

ideas and new movements in contemporary art proposing new meanings and social

4:57

purposes for art and artists so I’m pleased to introduce the the panel of

5:04

the the for participating artists for this panel we have cult song dawa/chris

5:11

on a staff costs Dylan Thomas and Michael Zhang born in Tibet called song

5:18

Dawa apprenticed under three masters in Lhasa and then completed a formal

5:24

seven-year program in Dharamsala India under painting master gishy Sanjay Jha

5:31

the personal painter for the 14th Dalai Lama His Holiness the Dalai Lama Tonka

5:38

painting is exacting the artists grind semi-precious stones to make pigments to

5:44

bring alive a sacred landscape of deities layered with symbolic meanings

5:50

the process is a meditation aid for the artist the product is a meditation aid

5:57

for devotees and patrons Dawa specializes in the use of visual

6:02

practices for healing self-awareness and interpersonal connection he’s been a

6:08

faculty member at Emily Carr since 2004 and has exhibited his work at galleries

6:15

and museums including the Royal British Columbia Museum STM Art Gallery at the

6:20

University of Saskatchewan and st. Norbert Arts Centre in Winnipeg his

6:27

prints have been sold at the Museum the Rubin Museum in New York and the Asian Art Museum of San

6:33

Francisco and his paintings were in monasteries and private collections in India Europe Japan China Canada and the

6:43

US Kristin staff ghos is a multidisciplinary artist of Greek

6:48

American and Canadian origin her work has encompassed printmaking textiles

6:54

painting installation and conceptual art she’s participated in many international

7:00

exhibitions in various media but she’s most well known for her unique

7:06

combination of performance and installation staff ghos is heavily and

7:12

involved with in influenced by feminism Greek mythology Eastern spirituality and

7:19

Tibet mute and in Tibetan Buddhism all of which inform her current or practice

7:25

the Rosemere of mandala series was originally created to be presented to

7:31

the Dalai Lama in 2006 where his visit to the University of Buffalo and was

7:37

later included by AE Bronson in exhibitions including the temptation of

7:42

a a bronson at the width of it in Rotterdam and Strath Coast presented

7:50

five mirrors of the world at the sculpture park at madhavendra palace

7:55

Nagar in in Jaipur which is currently on view she is a founding director of don

8:02

you got solving initiatives a nonprofit organization that works to help Tibetan

8:08

Buddhist women practitioners in the Himalayas inspired by the life work of

8:14

Jetts una suma on Tenzin palmo born and

8:19

Victoria Dylan Thomas is a co Salish artist and member of the Lee acts on

8:25

First Nation of all des island there was paternal lineage he also has heritage

8:31

from songs he and Squamish Nations and through his maternal lineage he has

8:37

heritage from snail oh and stole O nation oh sorry

8:48

Thomas’s early exposure to First Nations art prints ignited a lifelong passion

8:54

for Northwest Coast art and eventually led him to aspire to a career in Salish

9:00

art Dylan received training and jewelry work from the late celsa and studied

9:07

under Andy cook and all mediums of Northwest Coast art Thomas’s art work

9:12

has been published in the Journal of mathematics and arts and was featured and the city of Victoria’s sacred

9:19

exhibition which commissioned three pieces of Arts and featured and is in

9:26

the City Hall’s permanent collection he’s also extensively studied other

9:31

forms of traditional geometric art and his work has been deeply influenced by LOD Rihanna Buddhist Buddhist mandalas

9:39

Celtic knots Islamic to tessellations and many other ancient geometric art

9:47

traditions Michael Xing is a conceptual performance

9:52

artist who’s born and raised in China and currently lives and works in San Francisco Zhang’s practice focuses on

9:59

creating site-specific situations which questioned established positions and

10:05

offers experiences into a new perspective in 2011 he started

10:11

practicing yoga and meditation practices which have had profound impacts on his

10:17

art in his personal life his thinking is influenced by the interest in China

10:23

Buddhist notion of the intrinsic nature of all things being present is at the

10:29

core of his Poorman PSA’s photographs videos and sculptural installations

10:34

Zhang studied computer science at the prestigious Tsinghua University in China

10:40

and had a successful career in Silicon Valley as an entrepreneur and computer

10:46

software designer he left his job to attend San Francisco Art Institute where

10:52

he studied with Paul costs tony’ll Abbot and John Roloff he was also awarded a

10:58

fellowship from Skowhegan school of painting and sculpture when he studied

11:03

with Inari ward and Zhu Bing in 2017 saying participated in a research based

11:09

residency at the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria in preparation for his contributions to this project in the

11:17

present moment so as you can see from my brief introductions to these four very

11:22

accomplished artists each is engaged with Buddhism called on krisann and

11:28

Dylan with Tibetan of Audrianna Buddhism and Michael with John buddhism reminding

11:34

us of the very rich diversity of Buddhism and so now I want to just to

11:41

set out a series of questions points for our artists to engage with and then at

11:50

the at the conclusion of this will we’ll have some time for questions from from

11:56

the audience and I’m reminded to ask you

12:02

to please use the microphone there will be one that will circulate to take your questions alright so um so then each of you is

12:10

coming from different personal and cultural backgrounds to Buddhism and so

12:18

I could you talk a little bit about your artistic training and how Buddhism

12:23

became part of your artistic language and so maybe I’ll ask you calls on two

12:30

to start to talk about your apprenticeships in in Lhasa and

12:35

Dharamsala

12:44

hello hi Thank You Catherine where did

12:49

you pick me first nervous here I wonder

12:56

I want to thank you for him inviting me and all these amazing artists and to

13:02

have the opportunity to share our mind in this great space and Catherine and

13:08

the rest of your crew and the University here to start to start my my practice I

13:20

I wouldn’t say I’m a religious in any way I am I was born in a Buddhist family

13:28

and my grandmother used to take me to Antron monasteries and cetera and by the

13:38

way I was born in Tibet we’re just missing the puzzle and so so she take me

13:45

into those those monasteries and and when you walk into this monastery you have the smell of this butter and a

13:53

thick wall and the butter lamps and and this ancient stuff that you’re walking

14:00

in there’s there’s no words to really explain and then you see these figures

14:06

of those very dramatic and wrathful deities and she often tell me a look at

14:12

least look at these faces and you have to remember these face and and you know

14:18

I was little right I was thinking they’re scary what are you talking about and you know and I my grandmother always

14:27

says you know when you die you will meet those people

14:32

I’m like really grandma I have to know that I’m just born but you know the

14:43

funny thing is in in in Tibet you know the the Tibetan Buddhist and and the

14:51

Buddhist practitioners like all the Tibetans are somehow working towards to their death and so that they could have

14:57

a very peaceful death and comfortable yet right and and and that you could

15:03

feel the death is part of nature I’m actually slowly realizing that like now

15:09

I’ve been here for over 20 years you know how much that is disconnected with

15:15

with the people and that even though it’s a such a nature thing that happens

15:21

to everyone but we are so fear for this happen to you you know and there are so

15:28

many of our people that I remember in Lhasa in Tibet you know when they die

15:33

and they want that the the little bless from their Lama and and their bless Lee

15:41

closing their eyes and and I remember I remember there’s a long there was a time

15:47

that what’s-his-name that Indian girl he was talking about how the mind travels

15:57

between when you die and the moment of what are you thinking and that where

16:04

it’s going to take you so if you’re a creative person artists and it will take

16:10

you into that room so so you like in in a way that artists as a creative person

16:16

that we actually building our own world behind ourselves right so those those

16:23

are like very far off and beautiful things to to talk about and so okay

16:31

coming back to my story I’m always like it goes off my practice my practice I I

16:40

wasn’t I was very different as the school and it’s built from the the

16:48

Chinese school so I was very you know rascal

16:54

it never really suits me and it just never really worked and they kicked me out from school finally and I I know you

17:05

guys want to hear something amazing that’s that’s that’s that’s the story

17:10

and and I’m not done but I’m just like I’m just not settled so so when they

17:18

kicked you out there was no second options right there’s no other school to to go so you’re out and and I was

17:25

staying with my mom and my mom was like everyday looking at my face and she was

17:30

like well you can’t stay here forever you have to do something what do you want to do and I said well I want to do

17:37

painting and I’ve always loved painting drawing and and I know that something

17:45

deep down that I have I have that you know that kind of gift in me and and

17:52

lucky enough I first you know my first

17:57

teacher accepted me and and to do to have a puncher ship with him and and and

18:04

and it’s then like the the school curriculums and then you go like a

18:10

master and apprenticeship is a very different right like you actually for a little while you don’t learn how to

18:18

paint you you you go you make tea for him you come for a little go straight is for

18:24

what he needs it’s old-school stuff right you know so

18:32

you learn from it’s very interesting honestly that starting from 13 to right

18:39

now when I look back and how how much those reflections of those little things

18:45

that I couldn’t connect back then but now it’s so true that the mature you

18:53

become your art becomes better you because you can connect those little

18:59

things that the meaning of those things because we’re always looking for meaning

19:04

right we’re always looking for the answer and we sort of sometimes forget

19:10

to breathe and we don’t count our breath but we’re like looking for our answer and and we were missing out our moment

19:19

all right and and and and yeah so coming

19:26

back that sorry I’m just going off again so I met my my master from there and

19:33

then another two masters I’ve been through and they always tease me telling

19:38

me like because I grew up in a kind of a Chinese factory so so they consider me a

19:46

little bit of Chinese Chinese ish because my attitude towards two things and they’ll say hey you that be seeing

19:57

like how do you say because in Tibet we

20:06

only eat yaks face it like anything else you eat you consider be a very you know

20:15

not very good so they always calls me that but it’s a funny thing anyway so I

20:22

started that and I always had this urge of wanted to leave Tibet somehow I was

20:27

you know born there but I don’t have that you know that subtle subtlety and

20:35

1990 I finally you know after many times many times of leaving Tibet and I

20:42

finally sort of gathered my last strength and worked a little bit and

20:48

saved up a little bit money asked my parents I’m gonna leave because I don’t want to be be here there was no future

20:55

my mom agreed my grandmother my father and and and they agreed that if I leave

21:04

and you know the risk is that when probably I won’t make it and

21:10

in a himalaya probably you’ll die and and back in 90s right we don’t have

21:17

technologies developed back in Himalayas so I literally laughed 1990 with 80

21:24

people Tibetan Tibetan people together with a nun and monks with a tough tough

21:30

protest towards two Chinese I’ve seen people dying in front of me

21:35

I’ve seen a kid shot like bullet in their face and fall into my friend a lot

21:43

of crazy stuff and slowly I got into Nepal after 30 days of mountain climbing

21:54

and and honestly the 30 day that day

22:00

slowly when we found our road and we’re like a lot of people crying right

22:07

because you’ve been working now do you

22:13

see like you don’t have to walk it there’s just become so emotional we have like 80 people together like people aged

22:22

8 under probably like 15 6 people over

22:28

60 years old and the funny story is between me I mean everyone had amazing

22:35

stories the funny stories that day I was in 19 I was 19 years old and I was fit I

22:40

was like the love soccer I was very and the day we tried to cross that night and

22:48

we got we got message that the military the Chinese militaries are waiting for

22:54

us and we had to take different route so 80 people shoveled into two trucks drove

23:00

back into Lhasa not backing us back to into Tibet for four hours and then they

23:07

drop us right behind Mount Kailash which is a very sacred mountain for Tibet in

23:14

India I’m kid you not I I so dislike that mountain

23:20

I’ve we’ve walked and walked seven days I can still see this mountain

23:26

right I was like what is this and we walking hard I mean and it was freezing

23:32

cold in and that the year that if you if you go one circle it has like the

23:37

equivalent of thirteen circle and we did the other way so I think that was good

23:48

but yeah so so we we did that and we

23:54

have like Chinese military behind us trying to try to capture us we have the

24:01

Gorka military in front of us that we trying to pass through and we chose the

24:06

coldest year because they have a harder time to do the guard so it was like

24:13

everything against us right and we have to take your chances and every time we’re crossing in the middle of the

24:18

night and trying to pass through quietly her head like with 80 people with no

24:24

lights you know imagine in the mountain there’s no quietness it’s just crazy

24:29

anyway slowly got into Tibet slowly got into India and then finally I met my

24:38

last master master Sankey she who is the

24:43

appointed by the Dalai Lama and he’s been teaching for over 20 years and he

24:50

accepted me as he’s a student and and then I started from from him yeah so I

25:01

should start I should stop there absolutely I don’t take it’s exciting

25:11

hello so just as a pre note I was in

25:17

Victoria probably in last in 1975 and my

25:24

my college friend Wendy de bruyne er and her father John de Bruyne er taught here

25:30

so I want to remember them and dedicate to them whatever I might

25:38

that time when I I come from a Greek family my great-grandfather was a Greek

25:44

Orthodox priest I always questioned the idea of the feminine within any religion

25:52

as a young 10 year old girl I questioned the priest at the Greek Orthodox Church

25:58

why the women couldn’t go behind the altar and because mrs. Pappas went there

26:07

to clean so why can’t we go that

26:12

question still connects with my work

26:18

today with my support of jetsam Oh Tenzin palmo and the Tibetan Buddhist

26:27

female practitioners in Tibet and in the Himalayas and I have in terms of my

26:33

social work I have a or social practice I’m a founding director of jungle God’s

26:39

ruling initiatives which supports five nunneries both in India and in Tibet

26:46

that said when I was here in 1975 I had

26:51

a friend who was a draft dodger and he thought I was sort of no good

26:57

because I wasn’t spiritual enough so I was painting murals in Vancouver and one

27:06

day he said well why don’t you come over for a few hours okay so I went and in

27:12

this backyard there was a man trust and yellow and maroon robes jumping up and down like

27:18

this with a woman a Western woman with the shaved head in maroon robes watching

27:26

him I don’t know if he had hurt his foot or he was doing exercises but it was the

27:31

first time I saw a Tibetan person or Lama or rympha che and he promptly

27:39

invited me for dinner and at that point I had a very big baby face I’m a little

27:44

older now and went for dinner and my friend the draft dodger

27:49

sitting next to me then western nun was sitting there and the llama was there he

27:56

looked at me and he said what part of Tibet are you from I said what’s Tibet he said you look

28:04

like my cousin I won’t know I said I’m Greek my family’s from Greece and he

28:10

looked at me said through the translator what’s Greece and I said what’s Tibet

28:16

after that there was a big kerfuffle we had to get into a car because he was

28:22

going to do a teaching and we came to a stoplight and I said she did the

28:28

draft-dodger who was I’m not going to say his name now because who knows I could get in trouble I said stop the car

28:37

and I looked to the nun and I said to her it’s not time for me to do this yet

28:43

because he was going to give a Dharma talk and I opened the car door and I ran

28:49

so that was the beginning of that in the

28:55

80s I was always interested in Asian art you know Alexander the Great and Dhahran

29:02

bronzes the connection between the Greek mythology and India and the start of

29:08

Buddhism but in the 80s I have very very good friends the artists script general

29:15

idea of which two members passed away from AIDS and their friend what we

29:22

razors who is well known first she’s still around in them sir damn and she

29:29

connected the Dalai Lama of Tandy Warhol to Joseph’s voice and she did it she has

29:34

done amazing programs of connecting that and she invited aan Jorge general idea

29:41

to Dharamsala to interview the Dalai Lama I was very jealous I had met and

29:47

they they went they met the Oracle they returned to Toronto New York and I said

29:55

and then they were invited to when his holiness would come to meet his holiness

30:02

and one time I no our go to the church we’re in New York and Brooklyn where this Holiness is

30:08

speaking so I I went to this thing I thought because I never get a gun invited to fancy things said that age

30:15

you know like they did but not me and then after the talk I was like I’ve

30:21

been standing by a door outside the church and no one was there I’m just

30:27

standing there now pops his holiness and he’s I thought I just want to shake your

30:33

hand so he shook my hand and that was sort of the beginning now during that

30:39

time in terms of what happened was that the Buddhism sort of inter wove with the

30:49

deaths of my friends of AIDS which there was a significant amount you know my

30:57

friend Jorge and Ed were practitioners but I would but a a if he ever comes

31:03

tell though that story that’s his story and I went to India with a after Jorge

31:11

and Felix passed away and that was a revolute revelation in many ways not

31:18

only the Buddhist revelation because what happened was that from that trip I’ve been to India and Dharamsala 12

31:27

times before and the wish machine

31:33

started with that with the wishing trees of India and I became very interested in the whole idea of like a public art

31:40

project and that sort of interwove with my beginning to look at Buddhism as

31:48

trying to do a formal practice 1999 I went to Durham solitaires toe Lena’s his

31:55

teaching and to also do workshops at the TCB school because I’m an artist

32:00

educator and we went to a small place

32:06

where they my friend said Tenzin palmo speaking tonight and I I mean they were

32:11

from Australia and I said who’s Tenzin palmo they go you don’t know and she’s

32:18

a Western Buddhist one of the first Western Buddhists Tibetan nuns she was

32:24

born in London and she’s famous for having meditated in a cave in the

32:29

Himalayas for 12 years so to make a long story short that became the beginning of

32:36

the practice and in those times since then after I heard jetsam us speak all

32:47

she said was do you understand in this talk and I thought oh I don’t

32:55

understand I have to find a teacher and that took me to Gaelic ricochet from jewel heart so looking back at my art

33:05

practice whether it’s a rose mandalas or the wish machine or all that they are

33:10

sort of interlocked with that but it’s all based on the notion of understanding

33:17

and permanence understanding the feminine in Buddhism because Buddhism

33:23

came to me through a woman teacher which goes back to the ten year old little

33:30

girl not that I haven’t attended teachings by His Holiness where I haven’t had male teachers but I came to

33:39

it from that and that is also connected with my practice as an artist being a

33:46

feminist so the exploration of the feminine through through the work

33:51

whether it’s a rose Mandela whether it’s a portrait whether it’s a wish machine

33:57

how are a painting or looking at the heritage of my Greek mythology which is

34:04

what I’ve been focusing on in the past few years but I think the biggest lessons or teachings from especially

34:12

from Gaelic Ricochet is grandpa she always had a sense of humor so I brought

34:19

two of my books you’re welcome to come afterwards and look at them with me and I was with him of the other day and I

34:26

opened it up and and there’s quotes from ricochet and it’s and the Buddha is a cleaning person and

34:36

I drew had drawn a bucket with a mop next to it and just a couple years ago I

34:42

was participating with Documenta and I said I’m gonna wash the steps of this

34:49

one building where they had tortured people so again I was practicing the

34:55

washing the cleaning anyways so that’s the beginning of the few stories [Music]

35:06

hello everybody I understand the question for two parts one is how how

35:17

did I start making art and I didn’t come

35:23

to our directly I have two brothers and one is a musician one is the artist and

35:29

my first exposure to art was when I was very little I found a book must be left

35:36

there by one of the brothers it’s a it’s a book of drawings from masters da Vinci

35:41

Michelangelo and so on I remember feeling really impressed that you can

35:48

actually draw something to look exactly like something so that’s how I started I

35:54

started just copying the masters from the book and by the time I had to decide

36:02

what I wanted to do I was very confused

36:07

because I was good at drawings and and all of those things but I was also very

36:13

good at math so I by the time I took the National I was born and grew up in China

36:20

and by the time I was taking the the National entrance exam I score like

36:28

ridiculously high so I could choose to go to any school any department and I

36:34

couldn’t decide what I wanted so I called my brother and asked him what should I be doing he said computer is the future go to

36:42

computer so that settled my a big half of my life so I went to

36:48

computer and got a degree in computer science and then I moved to the United

36:54

States and I worked in Silicon Valley as part of the dot-com and everything had a

37:00

really exciting run feeling like that doing some important work in that sense

37:06

and all the time I was feeling there was something that I wasn’t completely

37:12

satisfied with and I couldn’t understand what it was I came it came up once in a

37:18

while and in the end it became clear that there was some parts of it that I didn’t have the creative outlet in my

37:25

professional part of my life so at that

37:31

time it was really the heyday of the dot-com so it was a huge decision on my

37:38

part to to how should I say it basically to get rid of the golden handcuff

37:43

because they you know pay with good and everything so I quit the job and joined the art school and that was my first

37:49

first step come to the darker side I would say and the first few things that

37:57

are encountered in are in art school kind of shaped what I’m doing now I

38:03

basically I joined because I was good at drawing so I joined join the school as as as painter but within a year or two I

38:12

was kicked out of the painting and I was told to join the or they call that new

38:18

genres department where all the exciting work came from I went to San Francisco

38:25

Art Institute so you know performance in and so on so so by the time I graduated

38:30

I was I was doing performance out already so that’s what I continue to do until

38:35

now and and the how the the Buddhism came into my life was like this my mom

38:45

my late mother was a very devout Buddhist towards the later part of her

38:52

life I I have memories of her prostrating several hours every every

38:58

day and I was just thinking why this must be good for her health because it’s going physical exercise in some ways so we

39:05

never nobody software but now looking back there was something that kind of a

39:11

stuck with me in how she did it there was a sense of devotion that was

39:17

palpable and and that power somehow had

39:22

to do with the determination and persistence and and the repetition of it

39:29

and now I look at it even has an performative aspect to it that kind of

39:35

lends to the power which was very interesting I think it has something to do with why I you know eventually become

39:42

a performance artist and myself my first

39:48

exposure to to to Buddhism was actually when I was very little my mother found a master for me I don’t

39:55

know what kind of concept that was in China she didn’t tell me the only thing shown was that I found a

40:01

master for you and I couldn’t care less if I was with that man and so I had no relation with that with

40:09

my master until I came to the United States and and the the only activity

40:14

that I had with that master was my mother told me that you have to send money to him okay so no I can’t

40:24

understand ease concept of that is that you built merit by sending things and so

40:29

on so that was like very very earlier I had no real understanding of Buddhism at

40:35

all my own actual contact with with the

40:41

Buddhism was very intellectual it’s it was actually after I became an artist

40:46

and it’s almost kind of a contrary to how my mother practice herbalism which

40:54

is kind of a religion and for me I came I came to it through scriptures in

41:02

particular the Diamond Sutra and the platform Sutra and they remain two of

41:08

the most important writings in my life I I go to them

41:15

because I keep going back to them because I always feel I don’t get it right so and and maybe it is because of

41:21

that quality I feel like it’s so big that it can it kind of its wisdom

41:26

encompasses a lot of other things so that’s my direct relations to it and my

41:31

actual practice is actually through westernized versions of Buddhism including yoga

41:39

meditation and so on so for which is really help which is very practical

41:44

that I can do on a daily basis and I can feel whether it’s effective or not effective and it is in that way my

41:53

practice of Buddhism came into my art through the practice of yoga and

41:58

meditation so the way it manifests in my art tends to have meditative quality in

42:08

it and I try to incorporate the form of meditation in my art later on maybe I

42:15

can speak to what I’m doing outside has exactly that kind of a thinking in it and so without saying even more I’m

42:22

gonna pass them like two hi I’m Dylan

42:30

Thomas yeah I guess yeah I wasn’t

42:37

actually planning on talking about this but something Kell Singh said kind of reminded me of kind of a really

42:43

important thing that I experienced that definitely played a huge part of me getting involved in Buddhism and that

42:49

was when I was in my early 20s and I was an atheist and kind of just a contrary

42:59

and when it came to like traditions and things like that and I had a handful of

43:05

people who were close to me passed away like uncles and my grandma and seeing

43:13

some of them pass away I noticed when they were it was very clear that they

43:21

were dying everyone knew they were in denial and it was so hard

43:27

to watch someone just just fighting it with everything they got not fighting it

43:32

in a way like they could beat it but they just would not accept that this was happening and that was like yeah really

43:39

kind of terrifying to watch and they had this yeah really rough effect on me as like a

43:45

19 20 year old and then my grandma passed away and when she was on her

43:50

deathbed I’ve never seen anyone go more peacefully she was just totally okay

43:56

with it and when she actually raped before she passed away she kept asking are you gonna be okay are you gonna be

44:02

okay and she was worried about us and it was just such a mind-blowing experience

44:08

that you could pass away that way and in that just I thought about that like

44:13

every day for years and subsequently I

44:19

started meditating more just for the mental health benefits I tend to be a pretty anxious person by nature and so

44:26

I’ve gotten into meditation and was enjoying like a daily practice of just

44:31

the kind of observing my breath and then I wanted to kind of go deeper with it

44:38

and was trying because I had this kind of version two religions I avoided kind

44:43

of Buddhist books at the start and I was reading all these kind of secular like more contemporary books eventually just

44:51

started reading some of the Buddhist books and I realized really quickly that

44:57

more than just like soothing my anxiety that it would probably they dealt with questions like how to die peacefully and

45:04

how to live a life that yeah just it

45:10

went way deeper than what was happening when I was originally meditating so I ended up practicing with a local Zen

45:17

Center for a bit and I’ve kind of practiced with a few Tsongas through the

45:23

years and kind of more formally at some times and less formally at that but I’ve

45:29

continued to meditate almost every day since I’ve started and it’s been a huge part of my life I can yeah I can’t

45:36

imagine living without it and even when I am kind of not as

45:43

involved with this Tonga at the moment it’s still the the philosophy has guided me through you know I mean minute by

45:50

minute kind of thing and well when I had started getting interested in Buddhism I

45:57

also at the same time had been my art career was starting to go as a

46:02

traditional Salish artist and Salish art has quite a lot of geometric and like

46:11

forms symmetry like rotation symmetry and reflection symmetry and those kind of things and somebody had said to me

46:19

they were like have you ever because I had done this piece that a lot of reflection symmetry and they said have you ever seen a tibetan mandala before

46:27

and i hadn’t at the time so i went and like looked it up and I was just like blown away and the actual the image

46:35

that’s on the tote bags here for this conference was the the piece that I did like directly after that and yeah

46:44

through that kind of sent me on this really long like two-year kind of

46:50

studying all forms of geometry from around the world so like it said in my

46:55

bio like Celtic knots and Islamic tessellations have been a huge influence on my work and yeah that was how I kind

47:04

of got started with the with Buddhism and I eventually even started practicing with a of aronia lineage here and it was

47:13

actually the art came first because I had practiced Zen which is at least aesthetically the complete opposite of

47:20

Vajrayana Buddhism like very minimal everything’s black and then I stepped into a luxury honest and it was just

47:27

like whoa there’s colors everywhere there’s art all over the walls and it was very different but I really enjoyed it so yeah and I guess on a deeper level

47:38

I think that it’s really influenced my art just my meditation practice and I

47:45

realize now that I really tried to control my art like I had an idea and I would wanted to make the artwork fit

47:52

what I had envisioned at first and through meditation I really don’t take that approach anymore like if I’m doing

47:59

a painting and it’s starting to take a direction that I didn’t envision I really embrace that because I find that

48:06

when I’m trying to get too involved in my art instead of letting it unfold naturally I think the work suffers and I

48:13

feel like having that approach change was a very big change in my art for the

48:20

better so yeah that’s what I got thanks next question basically follows up very

48:29

nicely on what Dylan was just commenting on in terms of his engagement with with

48:36

the mandala and again thinking about

48:41

Buddhism as part of one’s artistic language and I was thinking about David

48:47

Gordon white who has this very evocative deaf description of the mandala as an

48:54

energy grid that represents the constant flow of divine and demonic human and

49:01

animal impulses in the universe as they interact in both constructive and

49:06

destructive patterns and he also that talks about the the mandala as a

49:13

mesocosm mediating between the great and the small and so I wanted us to talk a

49:21

little bit about these key concepts and forms certainly the mandala being very

49:27

present in in Dylan’s work in Paul songs

49:33

and yours croissants also in addition to that the the Dharma chakra the the

49:41

Dharma wheel and just to think about the new meanings or applications of these

49:48

very resonant forms in in in contemporary life and in your in your

49:54

art practice so again just to ask people to to comment on this and and and

50:02

hopefully you’ve all been noticing this test constant loop of artwork and

50:09

you’ll you’ll see you know christen has this rose mirror mandala yeah okay great

50:17

that’s a great question how much time do we have Ashley has a 215 each of us 15 okay see

50:28

we like carried on our stories we left the meaning of the two thing behind are

50:36

you talking about Jack Jack quar is that the the Mandela that you who you’re

50:43

referencing yeah yeah yeah I I remember

50:48

20 years ago when I came to Victoria visiting Victoria art gallery there was

50:53

a big show over the Canadian artists who been to you know India spend a lot of

50:59

times learning Tibetan art and he came back and did this amazing mandala

51:06

Jack Jack Weiss right and I was quite impressed yeah hey you know him

51:13

okay I’m gonna rough it up really fast here okay Mandela is a fascinating area

51:20

you know it’s it’s it’s it’s a time it’s it’s it’s everything it’s it’s really

51:27

about a male and female it’s about the round it’s about flat you know does it

51:34

does it does earth it’s a flat because you see it’s flatter you’re walking flat is a flat if you go distant back enough

51:41

it around right so I think the expression itself it’s so vast I’ve been

51:46

teaching a Mandela workshop for many many years and people are just expressing their own way incredible I’m

51:55

gonna conclude this okay I there’s so much to talk about right

52:01

like it’s so interesting traffic and let me emphasize that right like my

52:07

experiences of these 30 years I truly found this this is how I think okay it’s

52:13

nothing I really recently find out you know it’s it’s

52:21

really a not about the painting like I’ve been painting all my life it’s not

52:26

about the painting it’s about how I can use painting to find myself to improve

52:35

myself to understanding myself that how known me that I can relate it to

52:42

everybody else that’s what it’s about it’s not about it’s not about what you

52:47

are doing is about something else right that that’s that’s that’s what I

52:52

found and there is a universal love that you have to reflect on your painting so

52:58

those are like simple but it’s so hard to gravitate because you have so much

53:03

ego so you have so much ego to not accept those ideas right anyways I’ll

53:09

stop that but yeah thank you our

53:19

backtrack a little bit my first mandala works aren’t actually the rose petal mandalas but a series of

53:27

paintings I made in the early 90s imprinting condoms and making the condom

53:33

Mandela paintings and and they related to again the AIDS the AIDS using condoms

53:44

and safety and anyways they’ve been

53:49

looked at recently because they’ve become popular thirty years later so you

53:55

know but anyways but again it sort of dub title after my trips to India and I

54:06

started to the Rose Mandela started very organically with flowers on the on the

54:15

ground my mother always remarks that she remembers me as a young teenager going

54:22

to the fields behind the house and coming back picking a wild flower and then coming back and by the time I came

54:28

back to the house the wild flower was dead so the Rose Mandela’s started very

54:36

organically the first large one was in an exhibition called the invisible

54:42

thread which had numerous artists and plucking each petal and looking at it

54:48

and I’ve been making them for 20 years they also relate to the mandala isn’t

54:55

just I do not believe it’s just Eastern if you look at ancient Greek the mandala

55:01

tiled floors with Medusa in the center part and different configuration a

55:08

nation times the biggest thing I think is the is how we are interconnected that

55:14

and how the art we make and even this spirituality we mean we do or practices

55:22

are interconnected for us all no matter who we are what’s our background and the

55:31

petals when I’m when I make the the the things that strike me about making the

55:38

large Rose Mandela’s is each petal I pluck I put around one time I went to a

55:44

gallery and the curator drew circles for me to follow I went no no this is a mindful activity

55:53

I place one I don’t have any circles drawn I look and I put it down sometimes

56:00

I say a mantra for each Torah mantra for each petal sometimes not it depends the

56:07

mirrors in the center of the piece like the one here are worth you know there

56:14

are different analogies and Buddhist thought about mirrors and reflections

56:19

but also if you look at Greek mythology there’s the mirror of narcissus so I

56:26

play with both aspects of my my Greek mythology heritage obsession and also

56:35

the Buddhist philosophical thinks about mirrors and emptiness and the nature the

56:42

the flowers are the Bodhi leaves I always think that nature is a vehicle

56:48

for compassion so hi

57:00

yeah I really greed what was just said about you know not even though tibetan

57:06

mandalas are what i studied the most these kind of images seem to show up everywhere in the world and I’ve always

57:13

I’ve always had this wild fascination fascination with geometry and how nature

57:20

just seems to take on these balance structures like there’s the reason that

57:25

flower petals arrange themself like circular cement with reflections and

57:31

wrote radial symmetry is because it creates this kind of a balance and

57:37

whenever I came across a some geometric structure it always kind of just hit me

57:43

deeply and it just instilled like a sense of awe about how the universe

57:49

builds up and builds up into these crazy complex forms and I thought the first time I saw a tibetan mandala i was just

57:56

blown away and that’s the exact that’s I’d had that feeling lots three years

58:01

but I was just such a perfect example of it how you can just build up from something smaller and build and build

58:08

and build until you have this incredibly complex thing that still is so somehow so in such a state of harmony and I just

58:16

think that that’s such a good metaphor for how the universe works and yeah and

58:22

yeah as it was said that the mandalas could be used as meditation aids and I

58:29

feel like even ever since I was a kid I think that’s what I loved about art when

58:35

I saw a piece and it was just like everything disappeared and I’ve like like I said earlier I’ve always been a

58:41

very anxious person except for when I was looking at art or creating art and

58:46

so I would yeah I think I’d call that spiritual now I probably didn’t for most

58:52

of my life but after you know getting involved with Buddhism and and things

58:58

like that now avi I find art is probably the kind

59:04

of backbone of my spiritual practice so we have been really grateful that I’ve been able to lucky enough to practice

59:10

Buddhism and bring it in my art and yeah it just feels like such a gift I don’t

59:21

necessarily use any of the iconography from Buddhism to make my art I’m more

59:27

intrigued by the concepts the ideas behind it and so just to make more

59:32

succinctly by way of example of what I’m doing outside I’m more interested in for

59:38

this particular piece the idea of being present and the actual practice of it and so so for that I each lie actually

59:47

took me my photographer told me it took me about 10 minutes it is because I I need I wanted to copy a random line the

59:56

first line was random and then the second line I tried copy exactly the twists and turns of the first line and

1:00:02

that turned out to be a super challenging task it was a drawing skills and focus and just really being present

1:00:08

only copy the line in front of me nothing else no preconceived notion what

1:00:13

kind of image I want to create in the end and so I have no idea and ironically he actually created most of the time

1:00:21

very surprisingly interesting image because of that so then coming back to

1:00:26

your original question about using the Mandela and and so on I rarely make any

1:00:32

references to it except in this one coincidentally concepts what I do in in

1:00:38

in the process of making a mandala because I actually was in the show with with four Buddhist monks they actually

1:00:44

were making the mandala for the show and I was so impressed by they spent two

1:00:49

weeks grain by grain right made in it and then in the end I witnessed them

1:00:54

going like this without any thinking seemingly it’s so impressive it’s like because if I want to do that I would

1:01:00

have think okay now I’m done so now I do it because I need to say something right and they just go like that it was full

1:01:06

my mind so that concept impressed me so he will be reflecting in this piece eventually by the end of tomorrow you

1:01:12

see there’s something like that so yes let’s

1:01:21

go to questions I have many but I think some of the

1:01:30

things that I also wanted to talk about on here have been touched on all of the one very much about about process and

1:01:39

about meditation and these techniques of

1:01:44

the body but is there is there a question several questions from the

1:01:52

floor okay right at the back thank you

1:02:00

very much for your discussion i’m a feminist philosopher and i’ve been

1:02:05

working for a while on this question of love is methodology and so i was really interested in the panel today Buddhism

1:02:12

as methodology and i know what cal saying you mentioned universal love and i’m just wondering if any of you when

1:02:19

you think of your methodology if you think overtly as love especially

1:02:25

buddhist love that’s part of what impulse your methodology with your work

1:02:38

if I have to I would say something okay

1:02:48

also then briefly uh I don’t necessarily consciously make work with the notion of

1:02:53

arbitrary such a huge concept for me it confesses a lot of different aspects to

1:02:59

it including compassion and empathy and so on so I had made work with those

1:03:05

concepts more directly briefly at by way of example I asked people to write down

1:03:11

an episode in their own actual life in during which time they’d lost the temper and later on they regret right and then

1:03:18

I meet them together and then I randomly pick one and ask the people in the

1:03:24

audience to reenact that now when the person witnessed their own behavior

1:03:29

being re-enacted in front of them nobody knows that he or she is a person it

1:03:35

creates a certain distance that you can observe your own behavior which you don’t like and invariably they find it

1:03:41

funny and ridiculous that it’s not me but it is you so to me that has

1:03:48

something to do with love in terms of its larger how should I say caring in

1:03:54

that way so anyway so that’s all I could say with with the rosemary Mandela’s

1:04:03

sometimes they exist for a week or three

1:04:08

days and at the width of it the picture of me bent over with the Mandela which

1:04:14

is a favorite picture you know of people you know working that Rose Mandela

1:04:22

existed for four months at the winter whit and Rotterdam and at the end of it

1:04:28

I worked with the youth group and we talked about meditation and then none of

1:04:36

them had ever done meditation before and then for the Fen Asajj we sat around and

1:04:42

we blew it away with our breath so the the Rose Mandela’s usually at some point

1:04:49

at the ending process there’s a dispersion of like the impermanence of even the

1:04:56

beautiful which if we look at our own bodies and death is the imper minutes of

1:05:03

us and sometimes when you’re a certain age and you look at a photograph of when

1:05:09

you’re 20 and the flower of your youth and you go what happened you know I

1:05:14

didn’t think that was that pretty or when I was 20 but then you realize it’s

1:05:20

it’s just a reflection of time and perception so that’s what the pieces are

1:05:28

about in terms of Buddhas yeah I guess I

1:05:47

think I think that what we enjoy and

1:05:54

what makes us feel good about love is that that breaking down of the barrier

1:05:59

like kind of the loss of the ego and being so engaged with another person that that there’s no separation and I

1:06:06

think that’s what the pleasurable feeling of what like love feels like and I I think so there’s lots of farms that

1:06:14

there’s like romantic and just you know like a mother and a child or any of those kind of things and I think that

1:06:20

yeah I always try and tap into that and I can even have that same feeling when

1:06:26

I’m doing art and I find that my my artwork I’m only happy with it when I

1:06:32

end up getting into that space where it’s like I’m not overthinking and I’m

1:06:37

not trying to do too much but more just having this like this really short term

1:06:42

relationship with a drawing or a painting or anything like that and yeah I’ve it it’s a it’s hard to

1:06:52

explain that that feeling as an artist but yeah that has been just such a

1:07:00

like a wonderful thing for me through my life like I since I was like a really

1:07:05

young kid and I had attention issues and was a difficult child to deal with I hear and I just remember you know like

1:07:14

when they needed me to calm down they just like go draw Dylan and they give me paper and I had all these weird things

1:07:21

in school like if I finish my work early I was allowed to draw and all of a sudden I was getting everything done on

1:07:27

time and was doing well and like yeah so even teachers were kind of tapping into that with me so yeah I think I more on

1:07:37

that kind of level of like Universal love like Kell sang said but it’s definitely why I do it is that feeling

1:07:44

of love that I get when I engage in art

1:07:52

[Laughter] so the practice III believe that

1:08:01

practice of the painting is to you know you you have to be improve yourself what

1:08:07

you are doing right that’s why when you become a wiser or older your your your

1:08:14

art your artwork kind of grows with you you know become a more mature the

1:08:20

concept of Tibetan art like when we do Tibetan art especially the Buddhist art

1:08:25

we have to meditate for three months and to cleanse yourself and it’s not because

1:08:32

the sacredness of of yourself but it’s me kind of like potentially to become the

1:08:39

closest of my highest of myself so in a sense that when you painting yourself

1:08:45

it’s it’s really a self-portrait of the God or the goddesses that you’re

1:08:50

painting it’s a self-portrait of yourself right it’s a quality of the deities that carries and that we carry

1:08:58

both of those qualities we have good qualities we have a ugly qualities right

1:09:04

so that’s why we have to transform them each other right we have a male qualities we have a

1:09:09

female qualities because we are combined from man and woman right so this is this is

1:09:18

the interesting part of the Tibetan Buddhist practice comes to right it comes to a – that’s why we always say

1:09:25

male in females right and and we often a reflect male a female as the wisdom

1:09:33

holder who holds the wisdom and then the male who is the method or trying to find

1:09:41

you need to have the method to utilize those wisdom to gain what are you

1:09:48

actually looking for right so that’s that’s the whole concept so so when it

1:09:53

peels down and down and down to a practice it really comes home to a raw

1:09:58

raw place right like place that when you talk about Mandela is talking about

1:10:03

chakras right a chakras of where you’re essentially where your places to opens

1:10:10

up your most energy exit in and out and in a way chakra you can see like even

1:10:17

the the place that my hair grow that’s a chapter two but the chocolate itself more kind of straight into a center

1:10:24

point that comes to a more kind of a stronger channel up in an out path so a

1:10:32

lot of the practitioners I remember a lot of the gurus and they say when they

1:10:37

practice chakras and they will they have experiences 36 or 35 or 12 different

1:10:45

chakras are open so there was no particular one way we’ll say Hindu have a seven we have five that’s the

1:10:52

beautiful thing with the spirituality is like we all many ways we all same many

1:11:00

more ways we are all different we all gifted in a different way we all have a lot of things to work on and that’s the

1:11:07

beauty thing with a spiritualities everything out there it’s there for you

1:11:13

to explore it’s not you aren’t the sacredness of this journey

1:11:18

right you are if you don’t think you are sacred you are foolish right if you

1:11:25

don’t be nice to yourself you’re extremely foolish so so you this

1:11:31

is your journey so everything out there is for you to explore right and and and

1:11:37

if you downgrade to that then there’s something wrong with your practice Buddhism it’s talking about now that’s

1:11:47

talking about presence right and right now we’re not let’s forget the past because a pass is gone right what can we

1:11:55

deal with it now like what is the problem that you have what is the emotional attachment that you have what

1:12:02

is the problem that you’re facing that you have a hard time to deal with not

1:12:07

that you can get rid of them because it’s in you it’s real how can you become a friend with it like

1:12:15

how can you accept it and then transform that when it comes right when that ego

1:12:21

stuff comes up you’re like oh I know I know you’re coming up right okay I’m not

1:12:29

gonna you know caught up with it I’m gonna transform that into a different

1:12:34

way like you recognize your yourself Buddhism it’s exploration of opportunity

1:12:43

of yourself it’s not about religious it’s not about any of those things it’s

1:12:48

a really about opportunity to explore within yourself and that Buddhism always

1:12:55

said that you have the nature the Buddha nature you know what that means

1:13:01

you have the nature of awakened one inside you but you have to wake it up

1:13:06

and waking up it’s your job to do right and that’s that’s that’s what it’s about

1:13:12

and everything else out there you know yoga’s and paintings walking meditations

1:13:19

all these things is a beautiful thing you know it’s a clicker it’s really about understanding yourself so that you

1:13:27

can find yourself when it comfortable I’ve never seen anyone you know

1:13:33

enlightened and flying around but I have met a lot of comfortable

1:13:38

people who are extremely comfortable within their skin it’s a good place to

1:13:44

be alright so that’s what you should what do you should aim and it’s it’s

1:13:53

about time right it’s about Buddhism let’s say okay I’m

1:13:59

gonna conclude that so there you go [Music]

1:14:12

what we said yes please leave thank you

1:14:23

all so much I just feel very inspired from being here I was just curious as to

1:14:30

whether something might just come to you that would be about a person may be in a

1:14:39

different art field a writer or dancer or scientist oryx who comes to who has

1:14:45

influenced you in terms of your practice has influenced you who you think you

1:14:51

think oh that’s a Buddhist you know who has influenced you know if there’s sorry

1:15:06

it could be anybody who’s a maker of art

1:15:12

or dance or performance or writing or theatre yeah a question for everybody if

1:15:20

there’s somebody who comes to your mind okay or do this very quickly when I was

1:15:26

in the show the exhibition the invisible thread there were many contemporary artists there was also the poet John

1:15:33

Giorno who I’d never heard of before and at one event John read his poem the bad

1:15:40

tree and I I recommend everyone to read

1:15:47

his poetry he passed away a few weeks ago and I was lucky to go to some of the

1:15:53

fire few shows with Marcus Boone who’s here will speak later

1:15:58

but the bad tree is one of the most

1:16:04

remarkable poems that I’ve I’ve heard and read

1:16:11

[Music] yeah I guess MC escher might have been

1:16:21

one of the earliest influences for me that especially is kind of outside of what I do but yeah the first time I kind

1:16:29

of stumbled upon his work yeah I was just blown away by that and he was the one who kind of it kind of ignited my

1:16:38

passion for geometry and that’s been like a thread that’s carried through my whole art career and yeah he the way he

1:16:46

worked with mathematics and all that really it was you know I saw one print

1:16:52

of his in a book and it definitely he really veered my life direction because that just kind of hung on and really

1:16:59

influenced everything I did since then and yeah so just yeah

1:17:05

yeah I think that’s all I got yeah I try

1:17:15

to be counted enough that time I think it’s 2:30 so which Arab dick fireman is the person that I think of immediately

1:17:22

he is he he was or he’s a Nobel laureate for theoretical physics the reason I he

1:17:29

impressed me so much is that his way of dealing with science is through

1:17:35

intuition which is just the concept itself is my bother because science is methodical and so on but his way of the

1:17:42

only thing is always intuition the first just think of how he helped solve the

1:17:47

problem of Apollo 13 when when that thing you know exploded they the the

1:17:55

rocket scientist couldn’t find a why they thought of him say let’s ask him because he’s this guy thought outside

1:18:00

the box right within two months he found it and I highly highly recommend every

1:18:05

if you don’t know it already it to read up on how he found the thing is that it’s like nobody he need he needed not

1:18:11

to have known rocket science but he knew how to find the problem and that to me is like the person was a real wisdom you

1:18:19

don’t have to have the knowledge but you have a mythology that can help you find

1:18:24

that something you can it’s off a lot of problems so that’s my I think you’re closing I’m closing okay

1:18:34

I’ve been always said you know cuz I’m an immigrant and 20 years ago when I

1:18:40

came to Canada you know I noticed like all Canadian man they don’t know much of art they just they just love group of

1:18:47

seven landscape people you know pouring

1:18:53

they don’t have much of a you know but you know after 20 years I must say my

1:18:59

biggest influence is really the landscape of where I’m living right I’m trying to find the God and the goddess

1:19:07

within the simple things and simple things that are reflects an on you right

1:19:13

like you we’re talking about emptiness right emptiness you you can’t pinpoint yourself as you that you are all

1:19:21

surround of every everything that influenced you all the other nature

1:19:26

phenomenas and and that support you that you are who you are so so that like

1:19:32

concept of emptiness and I just trying to find that little things that is trying to find a meaning out of those

1:19:38

little things and those little things actually like most of the times I’m you know like a West Coast and Vancouver

1:19:45

beautiful place and trying to find meaning from you know like like tree

1:19:52

leaves and like trying to find God from qualities from a simple things so that’s

1:19:59

that’s my sort of our next step because I’ve been doing god and goddesses painting it for all these years I was

1:20:06

getting on a little bit much it’s –

1:20:12

thank you

1:20:19

[Applause]

1:20:28

so thank you everybody we’re gonna take a break for about an hour and we’ll

1:20:36

reconvene what’s the time now well we convene back at 3:30 this team

1:20:41

coffee outside that cha way psy is going to do a performance in the hallway so

1:20:49

you’ll see it outside cha way we’ll be participating in the next panel and she’s well known around the world for

1:20:55

her project centered on the Heart Sutra so it’s a version of a piece she’s going

1:21:02

to be doing a version of a piece that was recently performed at the South Bank Centre in London England so I invite you

1:21:10

to stretch your legs and go get some coffee and enjoy it’s always performance

1:21:15

and we’ll meet back at 3:30

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