0:15

all right hello and welcome to today’s aga live a conversation with ruth cuthand and

0:21

cindy baker i’m glad you all could join us today my name is liz i am the programming and

0:27

engagement coordinator at the art gallery of alberta today aga curator lindsay sharman is

0:33

joined remotely by artist cindy baker and ruth cuthand for a discussion of their timely work survivor which is

0:39

currently installed at the art gallery of alberta lindsay and myself are speaking to you

0:44

from edmonton on treaty 6 territory while ruth joins us from saskatoon which is also in treaty 6.

0:50

and cindy is currently in regina on treaty 4 territory lindsay will introduce ruth and cindy

0:56

more thoroughly but first i would like to cover some housekeeping points our discussion today will be about 30

1:02

minutes long followed by an opportunity for audience questions you can submit your questions at any

1:07

time in the chat box on the right-hand screen the speaker during their conversation

1:14

but i will be monitoring it and will facilitate the q a at the end of the program if you’ve

1:19

participated in a webinar or a video meeting before you probably know the internet connections can cut out or slow down

1:25

so if you have trouble with your connection you can hit the red reconnect button at the top of the screen to refresh

1:31

and now i am pleased to turn things over to lindsay sherman thanks so much and welcome everybody

1:39

welcome cindy and ruth um yeah so cindy baker’s practice draws from two

1:45

decades of experience organizing in art queer and back communities she has worked in non-profits throughout

1:51

western canada she holds an mfa from the university of lethbridge where she received

1:57

a shirk grant for research on performance and the body she has exhibited and performed across

2:02

canada and around the world ruth cut hand is an artist of plains

2:08

cree and scottish ancestry and is a member of the little pine first nation on treaty six land

2:14

she is a hugely influential feminist artist on the canadian prairies and is lauded for her unflinching

2:20

interpretation of racism and colonialism her work challenges

2:25

mainstream perspectives on colonialism and the relationship between settlers and indigenous people

2:30

in a practice marked by political invective and humor um

2:37

so cindy and ruth along with uh jake checkstim camille turner luanne

2:43

martino and nikki little and bruno canadian are included in the aga’s current exhibition which is called nests

2:50

for the end of the world this exhibition came out of conversations with

2:56

all of the aeg’s curators and our desire to approach the

3:01

overwhelming feeling of the inevitability of the end of the world as we know it or as we knew it perhaps

3:10

circulating mostly around notions of environmental collapse and political

3:16

polarization so each of our curators selected an artist or artist duo

3:21

and then approached them with the proposition of creating a nest for this reality that nest could be

3:29

a space of reprieve refuge rejuvenation and offering difficult truths and it

3:37

could range from hopeful to completely hopeless we ask artists to build somewhat of a

3:45

physical coping mechanism of sorts um for the world as we knew it so i selected

3:52

ruth and cindy um and it has been super exciting to work with

3:57

both of you on your idea and to bring your nest to life um so maybe

4:04

liz could you pull up this slideshow for us and just maybe flick through

4:09

some of those uh images of the installation just to give a sense of what we’re looking at um

4:17

yeah so here we’re seeing some installations of the show now um

4:24

the central piece is a functioning hot tub this is not

4:31

only the obvious focal point in the space but it’s also the object to which

4:38

all of the other elements seem to circle back to and this was also the first element that

4:44

you suggested for the installation and the bit that really remained

4:50

constant throughout all of our our planning so first up very simply why

4:58

a hot tub

5:04

i could do that um i’m a really simple answer to that question

5:10

is that um ruth’s hot tub is where we used to spend

5:15

all of our time ruminating about art and the world and um how to be optimistic about

5:22

our lives and and about all the pessimistic things um that were going on in our lives um when

5:29

i lived in saskatoon it was a weekly event for us um to spend time

5:35

in the hot tub as one of the ways that we took care of ourselves as as our mode of self-care

5:42

um so when we were asked to conceptualize what self-care would

5:48

mean to us if we were um with warriors at the end of the world um our first impulse was

5:56

well it’s the end of the world right now let’s let’s talk about let’s think about what we actually do

6:01

to take thinking of the hot tub of as a place of comfort to uh to run a hot tub and

6:09

um so you’re kinda and it also for me it also represents some kind of a

6:15

little bit on this because also like cindy you mentioned something of that too of kind of this balance between optimism and and pessimism can

6:23

you talk about how maybe your installation and maybe your broader practice kind of navigates that fine line between the two

6:31

yeah i mean uh i think we both believe but i i

6:37

personally like i’ll just speak for myself um believe that there’s no such thing as

6:42

selfless selflessness um and that self-care comes at a price um

6:48

self-care is really really essential we all have to um take care of ourselves and i think

6:54

for those of us who haven’t had to think about that too much in our lives we’re all being faced with that right now

7:00

i’m trying to remain productive um while the world is falling apart

7:06

around us so the hot tub seemed like a really great example of that

7:12

that weird uh perfect excess and perfect self-care uh at the same

7:18

time this weird um netherworld between um between the two

7:25

spaces that uh that are really about opposing forces

7:31

that that were faced within all the decisions we have to make about all the things that we do in our lives um are we car owners are we

7:39

landowners are we people that um are environmental activists how can we

7:45

be all of these things at the same time and i believe that the political system would have us um spinning in circles um

7:53

and worrying about these things and not sort of taking the time to look outside of ourselves and say wait a minute we’re

7:59

part of a larger machine um that we can’t stop on our own and

8:04

um and that we have to look outwards from and sort of all

8:11

band together to to fight against or maybe in my case at least um that we can’t

8:17

fight against it that we’ve started many decades ago gene

8:22

that we actually can’t stop whether we’re doing our part and not using straws and

8:27

recycling and um and being eco warriors all those things um i think the system is is happy to have

8:34

us uh spinning our wheels thinking about and working on those things and not realizing that

8:41

that we can’t stop the larger the larger machine

8:47

so i’m just gonna um try to pull up this image again

8:55

sorry trying to navigate all of these windows and i want to share an image with you

9:01

for my next question

9:06

um so here um we’ll put some image of the installation

9:13

one view of it and so there is this um this light work that kind of

9:18

uh is higher up on the wall there and sort of watches over the rest of the installation

9:26

and i think that the story behind this piece for me it’s kind of that the first

9:33

kernel of the the ideas that you brought together for this installation um so i just wondering if you could

9:39

share the story behind uh behind that light piece up there uh that long thin light piece is

9:48

actually uh it shows images of anthrax at the micro level and it’s uh

9:55

it’s about the the melting of the permafrost in the arctic regions of the world and

10:02

how um as the permafrost uh uh melts there’s all kinds of things

10:09

that are coming up from the ground and one of them is anthrax and um there’s a reindeer herd was wiped

10:18

out for anthrax and so for us there’s a big worry that our

10:25

caribou herds are going to die off from anthrax and then they’re

10:30

as a permafrost melts there’s all kinds of old diseases that

10:36

are going to come up from the ground and i don’t know if we’re going to

10:41

be able to uh if we have like medicines to fight

10:47

against these old diseases it’s kind of like um the situation that

10:53

we’re in now with the pandemic it’s like there’s forecasts that will have waves and waves of pandemics in the

11:00

future yeah one of the things that i like was

11:06

it really interesting to me um ruth when you were sort of describing the story of the anthrax and

11:12

and these viruses that are locked up under the ice um and you you said um that one of the

11:19

things that you want this to this entire installation is to look at not only the things that we do know

11:24

which is the anthrax but also all the things that we don’t know and and i think it was your your words to say like what

11:32

gets us in the end it’s not going to be anthrax but it’s going to be something we’ve never seen before and and we’re

11:39

we’re completely you know blindsided by which i i think i had never

11:44

considered before that but we’re definitely seeing that um play out now um

11:51

i wonder if you could both talk um a little bit about your broader interest in um viruses and in health

11:59

that go beyond this installation well i i um when cindy and i were working on

12:06

these nests i imagined that the world uh we we would end in like uh ecological

12:15

collapse and they forecast like 2050 as the target year where

12:20

everything will go wrong and so i kind of thought well you know what i’m going to be dead by then so i don’t have to

12:27

worry about it but then we have a comet 19 which is

12:33

and that uh that really threw me for a loop because i remember talking to my daughter and i was saying

12:40

you know we won’t have a big pandemic like spanish flu in 1918

12:47

because we have better hygiene we have running water we wash our hands all this

12:53

kind of stuff so it would never happen again and here it’s happening it’s uh

12:59

i i was really excited i have to tell you i was really excited i was like please who say the word say the word say

13:07

pandemic and then they they did that was like yay we have a pandemic

13:12

and then oh dear it’s it’s really boring

13:20

now my interest in um disease i mean i’ve i’ve worked a lot

13:26

with um with themes of the body and disability um and

13:35

came to that through really personal um personal sort of reasons

13:42

um but have thought a lot about productivity and what it means to be

13:49

a productive and a non-productive person as an artist and uh what it means to resist

13:55

neoliberal imperatives and so that’s sort of how i came

14:00

to think about disease and about what it means to be a person with disease in the world and what a

14:08

disease actually means and how diseases can be uh productive and non-productive etc

14:15

um and it’s really ruth’s interest in specific like viruses and bacteria

14:20

kind of thing and that’s um where we really came together i’ve been working with ruth

14:26

um on the creation of some of her disease related projects for a few years

14:33

ruth and i just generally work about disease and bodies just was really natural for us slowing

14:40

down happening not for everybody of course for a lot of people it’s a lot busier

14:46

um but there is you know kind of like possibly this mass slowing down and a focus on you know people close to

14:52

you those in your immediate um family those in your household and maybe a more authentic manifestation of

15:01

self-care so i wonder if you could share a little bit on your thoughts around

15:07

self-care what specifically you wanted to examine with your installation and maybe how have your

15:14

ideas of self-care changed

15:19

roof do you want to start or do you want me to

15:36

okay so um i’ve always thought that self-care is kind of

15:42

uh kind of a red herring that that self-care is um is

15:50

a neoliberal imperative for us to be productive and to take care of our own needs self-care

15:56

implies that we need to take care of those things that are wrong with us or that um that

16:04

that our needs need to be fulfilled by ourselves and that if um if we are not productive then it’s

16:12

like we have to tinker with ourselves to make sure that we are productive and i’m hoping that what’s going on in the world right

16:18

now is a realization that um not only is productivity

16:24

um sort of a flawed concept but therefore so is self-care that sometimes

16:31

um we can’t engage in self-care and that that’s a form

16:36

of um of existing and surviving and like taking care of ourselves like

16:44

self-care can be a bunch of different things but and how we find what self-care is is is

16:50

counterproductive yeah i i raised a

16:58

severely disabled daughter and um so for me there really wasn’t a lot of

17:05

time for self-care i i i self-care i think is uh something that’s sort of i hate to

17:13

say it’s self-indulgent and it’s not self-care you need community to care

17:20

about you and to help you out when times get tough you know when you’re you’re having a hard time and i know for

17:27

me if my mom and dad hadn’t helped out uh when i was parenting my daughter it

17:34

uh it would have been extremely hard for me uh and when i think of self-care i think

17:41

of you know people going for massages and getting their toes down in their toenails and it’s kind of

17:48

like you need more of a deeper self-care

17:53

uh about i don’t know that’s all i got i think it’s apparently

18:01

like a contemporary idea that um that we came upon because we lost our

18:08

connection to community care and care of each other and community in general neighborhoods

18:14

and larger extended families and cultures um that that care for themselves and each

18:21

other in intrinsic ways

18:26

yeah and i think now it’s so much tied to um capitalism and and consumption that you

18:32

know self-care is um oftentimes online shopping and it always involves

18:39

spending money um and so with with that i i’m just gonna pull up um your text here

18:47

um and so this is a text that you also wrote for um the exhibition so it’s on on display

18:54

and on the wall here and so one of the things that i think was really interesting that it

19:01

does mention this shopping um and that you know we sort of just continue um

19:08

shopping um so hot tub sales um recently

19:15

have skyrocketed um and so the the company that we

19:20

are renting our hot tub from for your installation um for instance i said that you know

19:26

they’re they’re busier than ever and are having trouble um keeping up with the demand of people purchasing um

19:33

new hot tubs and renting tubs and and so i’m just uh wondering your your thoughts on that

19:40

um and in particular ruth you’ve been saying for some time that you wanted to buy a new hot

19:46

tub so i’m just wondering if you’ve uh made any mass purchases

19:52

since this i’ve been actually i’ve been looking at a two-person hot tub that’s smaller

19:59

uses the water there’s a good thing and on salt and it’s got all these beautiful

20:06

jets and and i’ve been admiring it for a while i haven’t uh

20:12

actually decided if i’m going to purchase it or not

20:17

but uh it was funny when cindy and i were working on this project

20:22

and we originally wanted it in the back of a truck and and

20:29

uh we were like okay if they say we can’t have a hot tub then you know that’s it project’s over and

20:35

then you guys said yes and it was a strange thing we ever know what happened

20:44

i think our influencers are cindy [Laughter]

20:51

you’re definitely influencers now i love how you guys were so

20:56

surprised that we were gonna go ahead with your hot tub

21:01

i idea we’re surprised that you would let it be in the gallery because there seemed to be all sorts of reasons why you wouldn’t put a hot tub in the

21:07

gallery but we thought that you might go for putting it on the pet

21:13

yeah a lot of logistics um but yeah it was uh i think we were all very

21:19

very excited by um the project and excited by the possibility of just having a hot tub on

21:25

hand um well just to go into the the

21:32

installation and the different aspects of the installation um you work together on this project but

21:39

you also have of course independent practices um and there are other works in the

21:44

exhibition where you also enlisted the support of other artists

21:49

um and so i’m wondering if you could just talk a little bit about those um those elements and then kind of how

21:56

you find this balance between working independently and working together and also

22:02

collaborating with other artists on on projects

22:08

go ahead so the the main element in the uh

22:15

in survivor that um we collaborated on another artist with is the audio um which you can’t see in

22:22

the documentation uh images but there’s um an audio track

22:28

actually a multi-channel uh piece and it sounds from the oil field so

22:34

um while you’re trying to relax in the hot tub you’re being sort of barraged by these um

22:41

grating noises um which if you’re there long enough kind of just

22:47

become a soothing white noise um which i think itself is a good metaphor for all sorts of things

22:53

um and then the video that we created and we actually worked with there’s a cut hand to create the video itself ruth and i uh

23:01

made the list we compiled the list out of many many scientific reports and then

23:07

have there’s a cut hand who is ruth’s daughter um make the video itself

23:16

do you want to talk about collaborative practice

23:22

um i’ve i’ve done some in the past that that don’t work very well but um with cindy uh

23:30

she she has these great organizational skills she can make a list and tell you how

23:37

what’s gonna happen and and when i don’t have those i’m just kind of lousy fair about everything yeah

23:44

whatever and cindy’s like no we need this and so she’s she’s really great to work with she’s a

23:51

great project manager and she has such great ideas

23:57

i just follow along behind her

24:04

i think in my own collaborative practice i mean i do less collaboration um

24:11

because i find it can be difficult so working with ruth is really great because we come to our ideas very

24:17

collaboratively we come to our very naturally um as uh i think egalitarian pair

24:25

and then ruth expects me to do the organizational work um which is fine with me because i i do

24:32

a lot of work where i hire industry i hire people uh to make

24:38

things um and so when it comes down to it like ruth and i didn’t create the hot tub we

24:44

didn’t actually make any of the light pieces in the show um we conceptualized

24:50

them i helped create the design for them and then it was actually industry that produced them

24:55

um or the gallery that hired the hot tub so in terms of collaborative production

25:03

um there wasn’t a lot of actual hands-on produces

25:08

yeah it was a real community production community and industry which is

25:14

something that like it’s important to us to uh engage all of that like

25:20

in terms of the theme of the end of the world and um talking about who’s complicit in all

25:25

of this like engaging industry to create art that’s wasteful in its own way and having the gallery itself be

25:32

extremely complicit and like oh yeah we’re really excited let’s bring this hot tub in like yeah we’re all

25:38

we’re all a part of this process we’re all um excited about the work and excited about

25:43

talking about self-care and extremely wasteful right in all of the different ways

25:49

absolutely um so our current pandemic um

25:57

might just be the end of the world as we know it um and so i’m wondering if if you could

26:04

both share just a little bit of what you hope that this might change in the way that

26:11

we live ruth oh

26:21

well i i have like i guess my monopolist i’ve got high hopes that we’re going to come out with

26:28

the guaranteed annual income we’re going to uh increase health services

26:35

uh we’re just going to um let’s start caring about each other more

26:42

we’re going to lean towards socialism a lot it’s going to um they say when we come out of this

26:50

there’s going to be great changes uh and i i sincerely hope so i hope it’s better for humans

27:00

i have high hopes but um i’m extremely pessimistic i think that in general i’m a pretty optimistic person but

27:07

um i see people saying all these things about the end of capitalism and uh the end world as we know it and

27:14

how things will absolutely have to change and i really really believe that um we’re on the path to business as

27:20

usual right and then when we get back when things open up again that there will be people whose lives are absolutely

27:26

devastated whose livelihoods have been destroyed people who have like are surrounded by death um

27:34

of important people in their lives and that the machine will keep churning away and that

27:42

and that very little will change other than the um than the destruction that will have

27:48

been brought in in some people’s lives um i really think that we’re we’re a

27:53

part of a machine that’s that’s truly unstoppable and the only thing that will stop it is um is a catastrophe is a

28:01

is a apocalypse an apocalypse of some sort and i don’t think that this is that

28:06

apocalypse that will um that will bring things to its knees yet

28:15

um so just to kind of finish off um i’m

28:22

hoping that you’ll each kind of give a little bit of a sneak peek of what’s to come of things that you’re

28:28

working on and so um ruth you’ve recently received the governor general’s award

28:34

congratulations um well deserved um so there will also be an exhibition

28:40

component of that award that’s also going to be at the aga so we’re very happy to be having

28:46

you back again um i wonder if you could give us just a bit of an idea or a teaser of

28:52

of what we might expect to see from you in that upcoming show uh well i’m going to uh be showing my

29:01

smallpox blankets again uh sorry i got a dog here that we’re at

29:06

uh dc3 project that big pile of blankets and i’m going to also be showing some

29:13

virus work and is that going to be new work

29:20

the viruses yes

29:27

really hard on getting from all over the place the gun uh i’m

29:34

doing the four of the big circles and then i’m doing masks and they will be available through

29:41

art placement in saskatoon check it out

29:47

um and cindy uh you’ve been selected for the biennial of contemporary art uh that

29:54

this year’s is co-hosted by the aga and raymie modern in saskatoon

29:59

um so your work will be at uh raymie this fall and so would you share a

30:05

little bit about what you’re planning for that show yeah um i’ve decided in a very self-indulgent

30:12

way to spend a decade working on um work that draws on my catalogue of

30:18

dreams um so i i spent 10 years writing down uh all of my dreams and started making

30:27

work using those as a way of trying to revisit trauma um and the way trauma affects the body

30:34

so came to it through work that was about the body um and about my experience

30:41

um so the work that i’ll be creating for the biennial is dream based imagery basically i’m

30:48

going to be making a fountain um that’s full of crystals

30:53

uh and costume jewelry overflowing sort of decadently um that came from

31:00

an image i had in a dream as well as creating these artifacts as a way of trying to

31:06

make really really concrete things that have happened my dream um to try and affect

31:12

um a sort of change in my body that can happen when when something

31:18

comes to life that that only existed in memory

31:27

and so more water installations in galleries more water installations

31:33

um i like working in uh themes and in sequence yeah

31:41

well that’s exciting i’m i’m very excited to see both of the shows um

31:47

right so um [Music] maybe rutherson do you have anything

31:53

else that you wanted to say before we um head back over to liz for any

31:58

questions that she might have

32:08

liz take it over thank you okay well first i have to apologize because i

32:14

got bumped off the call twice so i haven’t lost a lot of people’s questions

32:19

you know comments had issues so i apologize for that um

32:26

but if you want to retype your question into the chat box i think everything’s working now and in

32:32

the meantime i have one question that i managed to remember

32:38

um so i think it was stephanie had a question um for cindy uh commenting on

32:44

how you you mentioned um that there’s no such thing really as selflessness and she’s wondering if you

32:51

have a similar view of selfishness for example um how

32:57

taking care not taking care of yourself means that you can’t take care of others um i pulled out the exact text of the

33:04

question but that was the gist yeah i have the text of it here so i can refer to it

33:14

because i don’t believe that there’s any that there’s such a thing as a selflessness i kind of also don’t

33:21

believe that uh pure selfishness exists either um when when people tell me like oh

33:29

thank you for doing this for this it’s wonderful that you’re doing this i’m always like no i’m doing this for selfish reasons like

33:35

um in in that way selfishness i acknowledge as being useful um as as being

33:42

extremely useful and that selfishness and selflessness are interconnected and um and neither

33:49

is is without the other um so for instance i’m

33:55

organizing an art contest right now and i’m not being paid for it and i receive uh nothing from it except all

34:02

this art that’s being created that’s being put out into the world and like how could that not be extremely

34:09

selfish and yet everybody uh seems to think that that i’m

34:14

somehow doing it for altruistic reasons like altruism isn’t isn’t real

34:23

things because we want our worlds to be enriched um and because we want to get things

34:28

from other people and um yeah i definitely think they’re interconnected

34:37

okay so uh now turn to a question uh for ruth from cecilia uh

34:43

ruth what got you into virus art

34:49

oh man that story is everybody must know that story by now

34:55

i i just beginning to feed and i really enjoyed it and i was kind of

35:02

doing a little of this and a little bit and then i decided that i i really wanted to

35:10

find some kind of a project that i could really get my hands into and i was uh got a delivery

35:18

of beads from a bead store in the us and um i was laying them out on the floor and

35:25

the sun was shining on them and i thought about what what beautiful colors they were and how

35:31

deep the color was and how shiny they were and then i thought of like when

35:36

indigenous women first saw beads how they you know they must have just been floored by by them

35:43

and then uh then i started talking thinking about trade and i started thinking about you

35:48

know uh good things like iron pots and knives and stuff like that and i thought the

35:54

downside which was you know guns and viruses

35:59

well germs and uh so i i um i did some research

36:06

and found the germs that came from the old country to the new world the old world to the new world and then

36:13

i looked them up on a microscopic level and found these beautiful abstracted

36:20

images and i thought oh wow these could just translate these images

36:25

so gorgeously and so that’s how i got started

36:32

thanks um now i’m going to turn to a kind of a big question for both of

36:37

you um from shar how do you respond to people

36:43

who might say that activism has no place in art or that activism decreases

36:48

the power of the art i mean i think the people that say that have a fundamental misunderstanding of

36:55

what art is and they’re probably the people that believe that art should be beautiful um and uplifting

37:02

um but i think that art has no power at all if it is not

37:08

um trying to enact change and that those people who are looking at art

37:13

which is beautiful and they’re probably like obsessed with the renaissance and classicism um they’re missing the point of most of

37:19

that art too which was uh extremely interested in change and

37:27

making a difference in the world and agitating people to to act

37:36

looks like you’re getting some strong agreement in the chat uh ruth do you have anything to add oh

37:42

cindy she’s so uh this is so eloquent he gets this he’s got a quick mind kind is slowing

37:49

way down i’ve always admired cindy’s intelligence

38:00

um okay another question that’s uh specifically about the hot tub piece um so it’s interesting that people

38:08

in the hot tub are being watched and seen uh they also become part of the show the piece itself

38:14

can you comment a bit on how their bodies uh relate to the end of the world

38:22

or how their bodies sort of complete the piece or relate to the ex

38:27

to the piece yeah i mean i have an answer for everything i’m waiting for ruth’s slow mind to catch up

38:35

i i actually uh my screen froze at the first but i take it to talking

38:41

about people actually being in the hot tub and how that affects the peace of the nest

38:48

yeah yeah i i really loved it uh it was the opening

38:56

day and then the next day people got into the hot tub and became part of the piece

39:01

and and how they could uh uh relax and look at all the things and

39:07

read the scrolling uh words and and uh

39:12

it was it was actually uh pretty amazing and there was a little boy who was so

39:19

excited his mother had promised him that they would bring she would bring him back and they would

39:26

both sit in the hot tub and he was that was so cute he was so excited and

39:32

then later on after the well i guess it was after 10 we had some little girls in their

39:39

underwear and their mom um she was in a bathing suit but these little girls were in uh in

39:46

their underwear in the hot tub and they were having so much fun and it’s uh it’s

39:54

it’s really interesting to see that kind of childish uh innocence about

40:00

being in a hot tub at the end of the world that i just uh i just love that

40:07

i think it’s really impossible to truly grasp the work until you’re in it and you’re realizing

40:13

how much you are enjoying it to understand how much you’re implicated in the process um like people can get

40:21

the work from from outside of it um but once you’re in it there’s um a very powerful um affect

40:30

um that that i just like i really encourage everyone to if they have an opportunity

40:37

to experience any sort of art in that way um to fully immerse yourself because

40:42

there’s there’s just a way of understanding that cannot be had on the outside um my own practice

40:49

um i my thesis work was about uh the absence of the artist’s body and

40:56

performance as a way of centering other people’s experiences um and centering other people’s bodies

41:02

within the work is really really important so to be able to do this um and have people be the work

41:09

and experience the work by being a part of it um yeah it’s really i hope

41:15

i mean i think other people who have done it can can agree can um i can agree

41:23

i think it was it was quite um because of course i’m also super um you know i i know the work

41:30

quite intimately by the time i was able to actually get in the tub but i still think i had that

41:35

very profound moment of of sitting in the hot tub um relaxing

41:41

and having you know this amazing moment of being like this is my job this is what i do for work and

41:47

that’s ridiculous but then also like having that kind of joy

41:52

um and then reading this text piece that i also you know had read before but um

41:59

yeah this this kind of very strange um experience of feeling

42:06

you know very joyful but also simultaneously hopeless um and so i think it’s really

42:15

um really very interesting and i think also to be um regarded by others

42:23

well in the hot tub i think was also a very um kind of strange experience and i

42:29

guess you know cindy doing performance art you’re quite used to people

42:34

um regarding you in that way but it was it was very

42:40

strange to have this also moment of being kind of comfortable and relaxed in a hot tub and having people walk

42:48

by and sort of like regard you with the same like seriousness that they would um look at any other piece of art with

42:55

was quite interesting yeah i think it’s um

43:00

it’s a really good example of you know for those people who criticize art that

43:07

involves activism uh to say this art is in part about bringing joy

43:12

to people right like and it’s absolutely undeniable that people enjoyed it and and received a measure of

43:21

sort of extreme joy and extreme feelings um from it in the way that people might

43:27

suggest that you should get from art that it should evoke uh joy and sorrow and all of these things

43:34

and actually do that in a piece that’s not about um like painterly uh

43:40

realism and and facility with a brush um that in fact you can put a hot tub in

43:45

a gallery and still make people feel feelings

43:52

i think that’s probably a good place to wrap up unless anyone has any final comments

44:00

i’d just like to thank both cindy and ruth not only for this conversation which has been super interesting but

44:06

um working with with the both of you has been really really uh a delight and i’m very very

44:13

proud to have had a hand in in putting together the installation i i think it’s really great and so are you

44:23

all right well i would also like to thank ruth and cindy and lindsay for joining us uh with our second only

44:30

our second live stream ever um and and also i’d like to thank

44:36

everyone who tuned in and uh for with us through some connection issues um as i mentioned

44:42

in the chat uh the recording of this should be going up i think on our youtube channel um in a couple of days i don’t know the

44:49

exact timing on that but it should be up soon so check out our website and our social media

44:55

um and i think we touched on all the main questions the main themes of the

45:01

questions asked anyway but if um you have any other questions you can contact us

45:06

at marketing at your aga.ca and we’ll see if we can get an answer for you

45:11

um so that is that’s it so thanks and have a great afternoon

45:17

everyone thank you thank you liz

No results found