[Lab] yellow jackets and electricity

Richard Guy Briggs rgb at tricolour.net
Mon Aug 29 18:05:07 EDT 2011 

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 05:44:46PM -0400, Darcy Whyte wrote:
> Those laser diodes aren't too expensive.
> 
> But I guess I need current drivers for 30.00 (that's 2 drivers).
> 
> I think I need a heat sink (45.00?) and perhaps a lens (5.00).
> 
> I think if it could work it could make for a pretty effective way of
> stopping the yellow jackets. It would just be a matter of putting this
> device near where they enter their nest and it would (in theory get rid of
> the community).

My main concern would be where/how do you aim that sucker?  It isn't the
kind of thing that peters out a whole lot with distance, so whatever is
behind it is toast.  If you aim it up, hoping to avoid hitting anything,
it'll still hit birds and planes...  Perhaps I just don't understand
lasers well enough yet...

> These pests are an ongoing problem so I am prepared to come up with a device
> even it if take some time and I have to learn a few things. As it stands
> every time I have to deal with the little buggers it takes plenty of time to
> assess, take precautions and use various means to combat them and follow up.

I like the parallel screens of charged wire.  Put 'em vertical so they
auto-empty and just close enough together so that they just within
wingspan...

> The only concern I have for the laser is it's dangerous for humans. I
> suppose if the lens were dropped then it would only do damage at close
> range. Perhaps there could be a tube they have to get through and the laser
> is in there and the beam can't get out.

Can't laser cutting diodes also cut metal, and if not, reflect?  Where
does that power go?

> This laser thing is worth looking into since it could have other
> applications...

Indeed!  However, it sounds dangerous...  mostly because of my
ignorance.

> I ordered a disposable camera for about 12 bucks with shipping. That might
> work too.

That's a good starting point.

> Either way I think I need a trigger to only deliver the punch when the
> animal is in the right area. (So the thing can run for a while on
> batteries). Like Michael says, if there is continuous charge on the grid (in
> the high voltage case), it will discharge on contact. Hmmm, that's sounding
> better all the time, all I have to do is keep the capacitor charged.

Some systems, like animal electric fences, stay charged all the time and
are kept running with a small solar panel, so they can't take that much
power...  You can get those things at Princess Auto.

> I suppose I might not get lucky and reuse this thing since they may not have
> an exclusive access point. It's just that this time they're in the roof and
> I can't use my usual means.

Last time, I tried several ways to get rid of a nest in the
balcony 1st floor ceiling-2nd floor floor and resorted to calling a
professional.  Before calling the pros, we had them in 3 different holes
into the same space.  It helped, but didn't completely eliminate it.
We've now got one of these hanging in the vicinity:
	http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/MosquitoPestControl/InsectControl/PRD~0593500P/Bee-Free+Natural+Wasp+Deterrent,+2-Pk.jsp?locale=en
We haven't had a problem since, touch wood...


Now that I think of it, Marcus Wandel, who has actually come out to one
of our modlab meetings, made this contraption to get rid of his
yellow-jacket problem:
	http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/built/wasp-sucker.html


> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com>wrote:
> > They are diodes. You just give them constant voltage like an LED. Mind you
> > some need to be pulsed instead of constant.
> >
> > Here are some ebay links:
> >
> > http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LOT-5-808nm-high-power-burning-laser-diode-1-watt-/170681506053?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bd691905
> >
> > http://www.ebay.ca/itm/808nm-1000-mw-high-power-burning-laser-diode-1-watt-/180709833539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a13253b43
> >
> > http://www.ebay.ca/itm/50-808nm-1W-BLUE-DPSS-HIGH-POWER-BURNING-LASER-DIODE-/230664842498?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4b22d02
> >
> > http://www.ebay.ca/itm/50-808nm-1W-YAG-IR-DPSS-HIGH-POWER-BURNING-LASER-DIODE-/230664835850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4b2130a
> >
> > This one is a driver:
> >
> > http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-Laser-Diode-Drivers-405nm-445nm-burning-808nm-650nm-/120767948391?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1e54a667
> >
> > Also to note you need to cool these diodes with something (normally they
> > get mounted into an aluminum laser body, or into an aluminum heatsink to
> > keep them cool)
> >
> > They are only 1W so enough to burn paper, burn wood, or light small fires,
> > but to an insect I suspect it would be devastating (especially if you could
> > hit it with a bunch at once).
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I can't seem to find those lasers on ebay. Dont I need to build a power
> >> supply to drive those?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ooh, after hearing Aaron's suggestion about a laser (in the ultrasonic
> >>> sensor thread). Why not use some cheap 1W laser diodes off ebay, make an
> >>> arrangement that covers the opening so they have to fly through the beam.
> >>> Would allow them to pass through unlike a mesh/screen and might be easier to
> >>> catch them with (plus will allow the dead to fall out easier since no
> >>> physical mesh there). Might need a few diodes but you can get like 50 packs
> >>> for $20 on ebay from china lol...
> >>>
> >>> It can be your anti-wasp-laser-defense-sysem ;)
> >>>
> >>> - Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Tom Burns <tom.i.burns at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I would probably swap out the batteries for a DC connection to a wall
> >>>> wart, but you may want to monitor the wall wart's temperature.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You mean just tape the on button and put it near the entrance? I wonder
> >>>>> how far that would go on one set of batteries?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Tom Burns <tom.i.burns at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Instead of a full DIY what about those $10 "tennis racket"-esque
> >>>>>> electric mosquito killers?  They might not be strong enough to kill bees but
> >>>>>> maybe just a capacitor change would be sufficient...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com>wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well the beez or going into the ceiling. So I figured putting a mesh
> >>>>>>> across their entrance would work. If I zap them on the way up but not down
> >>>>>>> then the'd just fall from there.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:50 AM, mike Jans <mjans at live.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Make sure your design allows for the dead to fall down and not
> >>>>>>>> clog the mesh. From my experience with bees, when something gets in close to
> >>>>>>>> their front door, they'll investigate immediately. From the traffic in the
> >>>>>>>> video, that might become an issue. Perhaps make it adjustable. In the
> >>>>>>>> beginning, you might sacrifice some kills for smooth operation. Later, you
> >>>>>>>> adjust for a more thorough deathrate.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:42:24 -0400
> >>>>>>>> From: krazatchu at hotmail.com
> >>>>>>>> To: lab at artengine.ca
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lab] yellow jackets and electricity
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You don't need to detect them at all...
> >>>>>>>> Just use two parallel meshes at a distance of about 3/4 the length
> >>>>>>>> of a yellow jacket...
> >>>>>>>> With opposing charges on the meshes, the yellow jackets become the
> >>>>>>>> trigger...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is not uncommon in Korea for mosquitoes...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Koolatron-Lentek-Biteshield-RZ02-Electronic/dp/B000H7CUSQ
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And be careful with camera flashes, they can really hurt (and
> >>>>>>>> kill)...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>> http://NoMiDesign.net/
> >>>>>>>> http://krazatchu.ca/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 8/29/2011 11:31 AM, Darcy Whyte wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I don't think the Squirrels are reading my blog so we should be
> >>>>>>>> okay.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  I've already got some parts on order (including a disposable
> >>>>>>>> camera to get a zapper out).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  I'm a little concerned about how I will detect when they are in
> >>>>>>>> contact with the mesh. Perhaps just a motion detector.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  I just took some video of the little buggers:
> >>>>>>>> http://mambohead.com/2011/08/arduino-bug-zapper-yellow-jacket-removal/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  As you can see, they're going up a hole in the ceiling.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  The chemical idea might work but can it go uphill into the
> >>>>>>>> ceiling? I guess I have to seal the hole after I get rid of them.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Tom Burns <tom.i.burns at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> An Arduino-powered stun gun is not something I would want to fall
> >>>>>>>> into the hands of a species as devious as the squirrels ;)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  If it's not high powered enough, and you're not against using
> >>>>>>>> chemicals, I dealt with a nasty bee (my fiancee is allergic) problem in my
> >>>>>>>> backyard using Raid "One Shot" wasp killer.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Tom
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Hi Richard,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Thanks for the note.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  I figured keeping a coil charged might be expensive on the
> >>>>>>>> batteries. Seems the next place to go is keeping a capacitor charged. As I
> >>>>>>>> mentioned in the blog post, a disposable camera may have enough hardware to
> >>>>>>>> do this. May not be as high a voltage but it might work.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  So it just comes down to triggering the high voltage thing.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  I'm all ears on how to trigger it but I figured I could just use
> >>>>>>>> an arduino because the labor content may be lower. There might be something
> >>>>>>>> that can save some pennies but I think for the pain a community of yellow
> >>>>>>>> jackets causes, it's okay if it uses an arduino for a couple days.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Even if the Squirrels steal it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Darcy
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Richard Guy Briggs <
> >>>>>>>> rgb at tricolour.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 01:32:19PM -0700, Darcy Whyte wrote:
> >>>>>>>> > What about this angle:
> >>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>> > A motion detector of some sort.
> >>>>>>>> > a coil
> >>>>>>>> > a relay
> >>>>>>>> > a 6v battery
> >>>>>>>> > a wire grid over the opening
> >>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>> > When a yellow jacket is detected we charge the coil and then let
> >>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>> > discharge through the grid.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  I think the idea is to keep it charged so that it does its work on
> >>>>>>>> contact.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > The relay is to isolate an arduino from the coil charging
> >>>>>>>> action...
> >>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>> > What sort of coil would I need?
> >>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>> > If this will work at all....
> >>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>> > Also, what about detecting the bug when it touches the grid? I
> >>>>>>>> suppose the
> >>>>>>>> > problem with that is I'd need to isolate it from the arduino
> >>>>>>>> somehow since
> >>>>>>>> > the high voltage will zap the arduino too....
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  Does it really need an arduino, or just a wired power supply and a
> >>>>>>>> way
> >>>>>>>> of forcing all entering and exiting wasps of touching the charged
> >>>>>>>> wires?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> > > Perhaps this can be DIYed:
> >>>>>>>> > > http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page1421.html
> >>>>>>>> > >
> >>>>>>>> > > I could then just hang the thing near the hole and place some
> >>>>>>>> electrodes
> >>>>>>>> > > right there.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  I've seen one of those at a friend's cottage.  It is only $10, so
> >>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>> might be worth just buying one to find out how it works and adapt it
> >>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> automatic use with your wasp nest.  We had one in the floor of our
> >>>>>>>> balcony.  It was a nuisance...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You might want to adapt it with very fine wires brushing around the
> >>>>>>>> hole
> >>>>>>>> (but if the wire is too fine, it might fuse instead of delivering
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> intended shock to an insect...)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Darcy Whyte <
> >>>>>>>> darcy at siteware.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> > >> Let's say I have a nasty yellow jacket nest that's starting to
> >>>>>>>> cause
> >>>>>>>> > >> problems.
> >>>>>>>> > >>
> >>>>>>>> > >> I've dealt with these in the past when the next is very exposed
> >>>>>>>> but this
> >>>>>>>> > >> time I only have access to an opening about an inch where they
> >>>>>>>> are coming
> >>>>>>>> > >> and going.
> >>>>>>>> > >>
> >>>>>>>> > >> Has anybody ever tried to put some sort of zapper near an
> >>>>>>>> entrance? Seems
> >>>>>>>> > >> that should be an easy way to get them.
> >>>>>>>> > >>
> >>>>>>>> > >> A trap seems to take long because they only go into it once in
> >>>>>>>> a while so
> >>>>>>>> > >> it takes a long while.
> >>>>>>>> > >>
> >>>>>>>> > >> I figure if I put a couple of electrodes near the hole, they
> >>>>>>>> could
> >>>>>>>> > >> complete the gap.
> >>>>>>>> > >>
> >>>>>>>> > >> If this would work, I wonder how many bugs a couple of D-cells
> >>>>>>>> could zap?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>         slainte mhath, RGB
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Richard Guy Briggs               --  ~\    -- ~\            <
> >>>>>>>> hpv.tricolour.net>
> >>>>>>>> <www.TriColour.net>                --  \___   o \@       @
> >>>>>>>> Ride yer bike!
> >>>>>>>> Ottawa, ON, CANADA                  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
> >>>>>>>> Vote! -- <greenparty.ca
> >>>>>>>> >_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Lab mailing listLab at artengine.cahttp://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> ---------------------- http://NoMiDesign.net/ http://krazatchu.ca/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Lab mailing list
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> >>
> >

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	slainte mhath, RGB

--
Richard Guy Briggs               --  ~\    -- ~\            <hpv.tricolour.net>
<www.TriColour.net>                --  \___   o \@       @       Ride yer bike!
Ottawa, ON, CANADA                  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
Vote! -- <greenparty.ca>_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________

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