<div dir="ltr"><div>Do you have any data showing that uber/lyft have caused congestion? I didn't think there was enough volume to do that. If it is more volume, then good, it's legit traffic and it's more efficient than individual cars... I suspect when between fairs (during quiet times) they find place to pull over. Gas costs money... they're on a pretty light pay rate so I can't see them wasting...</div><div><br></div>I don't think everybody can stay home. People recreate and work. Also, I think people are already working at home quite a bit...<div><br></div><div>Yeah, I think the notion of there being a marketplace for the use of roads might come forward. It would depend if the system gets too crowded or not and a gazillion other things I suppose... I personally don't like the idea.. maybe it would be just peak hours. For instance a certain road might have a toll during certain hours... I wonder if private roads could be incentivised (is that a word?) by this...</div><div><br></div><div>Or perhaps that doesn't matter and the marketplace between the cars is enough to keep the system balanced. For instance if a road is crowded some operators might bid enough to get cars out of their way.. so people will stay off the crowded roads to save money and have the upper class subsidize their rides...<br><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br><div><div><br></div><div><div>--</div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px;letter-spacing:0.2px">Art+ </span><a href="http://inventorartist.com/" style="font-size:12.8px;letter-spacing:0.2px" target="_blank">inventorArtist.com</a><span style="font-size:12.8px;letter-spacing:0.2px"> | Makerspace </span><a href="http://hack613.com" style="font-size:12.8px;letter-spacing:0.2px" target="_blank">hack613.com</a><span style="font-size:12.8px;letter-spacing:0.2px"> | Aviation </span><a href="http://rubber-power.com/" style="font-size:12.8px;letter-spacing:0.2px" target="_blank">rubber-power.com</a><br></div><div>Contact: <a href="mailto:darcy@inventorArtist.com" target="_blank"><b>darcy@inventorArtist.com</b></a> | 613-563-3634 by appointment</div></div></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 6:17 PM tOM Trottier <<a href="mailto:tom@abacurial.com">tom@abacurial.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt">Curiously, Uber and Lyft seem to have increased traffic density & slowed traffic -
drivers have to stay near possible fares, parking costs money, and roads are "free". </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt">Would this change with autonomous cars? </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt">Tracking cars facilitates charging for road use....</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt">Or maybe everyone will stay home online to work online?</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt">--tom</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt">On 11 Aug 2018 at 4:54 re:"Re: [Lab] AVIS exploring a new busi..."</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt"> David @ ProjectWorkshop(David @ ProjectWorkshop
<<a href="mailto:david@projectworkshop.com" target="_blank">david@projectworkshop.com</a>>) wrote:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Very interesting. I have always thought the individual automatic car concept made </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> sense. It could work like public transport, with shared vehicles, but still meet exact </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> point to point movement that people desire. I would also think individuals could still </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> own their own if they like, so as to be able to keep their “stuff” with them (I might like </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> that myself), and/or have a customized travel cab/environment, but the vehicle would </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> otherwise still plug-into the same automated travel network and processes. I have </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> talked about this stuff over beers with friends, and many do not like the idea at all. </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> They want to run the gas and brake, turn the steering wheel, and in many cases be </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> involved in operating the transmission in some way. They want to direct the details of </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> vehicle operation and motion. They like driving.</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Anyway, I assume people can find new pastimes while riding, but it will be quite a </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> change for many. I’m for it because I don’t care for driving, but I don’t mind having to </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> drive just around town either, so I also don’t really need it, and I think it will impact me </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> very little...I’ll drive, or I won’t. I don’t think I care. We shall see. (BTW, my partner and I </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> often do the: you drive...no you drive...no you drive, thing, if the drive is any serious </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> distance.)</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> From: Darcy WhyteSent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 9:04 PMTo: Ryan Stec ; Hack613Cc: labSubject: Re: </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> [Lab] AVIS exploring a new business model - servicingautonomous cars Fascinating... </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> I think antonymous cars are inevitable and they will solve a lot of problems. There are some amazing possibilities. Here are </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> some thoughts/ramble. Eventually I think there could be no signs or lights or even lines on roads. Except perhaps marking </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> places for pedestrians. Cars would just move along and if a pedestrian crosses the road they just stop as long as </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> needed. They'd zipper through intersections or just plan to not have cars arriving that would conflict. Merging would </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> automatically zipper. If an ambulance is moving on a highway, cars would automatically clear a lane for it. Lane direction </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> would auto configure based on volume in each direction. A lane could even serve both directions with some fancy lane </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> changing and coordination. They could drop you right at your destination and then go off to a gig economy of fares or to a </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> parking area far away. So without parking in high traffic areas there could be more lanes and better throughput. Also cars </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> could have policy programmed into them (the rules they use for driving). This could be part of status. For instance if you </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> wanted to get somewhere quickly during a peak period you could toot down the highway and cars would get out of your </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> way. The policy of your car would request cars to change lanes. Other cars would have their own policy. Some cars might just </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> get out of your way. Others might need payment to get out of the way. So if you want to get somewhere faster you subsidize </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> some of the rides of people who cleared a lane for you. The higher the price your car policy will pay the more effective it will </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> be at clearing the fast lane. The sense of urgency in driving will go away. Today you see people speeding up to a red light then </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> wasting gas pulling away in a hurry. This may go away since you are not occupied by driving anymore. Safety can increase </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> since nobody's in a rush because the traffic could be very efficient and everybody's conducting their social and other </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> business instead of driving. An extreme example would be going to a party, drinking alcohol then stepping into your car to get </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> home. You'd just sleep while your car gets you home. No rush there. It'd take lower volume and peaceful routes and then </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> wake you when you get home (depending if that's in the policy/rules). Car ownership might become more shared (as most </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> people predict). Imagine how inexpensive a taxi/uber could be if you remove the driver... Cities could also have mini buses that </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> shuttle people around as well. I wonder if buses as we know them with fixed routes and stuff might even become obsolete? </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Demand driven shuttles could run 24x7. A given route could even interact with a bulk system such as the rail system. You </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> could be dropped off at a rail station if there's a train coming, then when you get off a different vehicle is there waiting for </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> you. There could be integration with bicycles or electric kick scooters. Perhaps some vehicles could carry bicycles somehow. </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Or there could be shared bicycles too... I food delivery vehicle might be able to operate without an operator. It pulls up and </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> you walk up to it, identify yourself and it lets you take your order/package. Mail delivery, shipping.. christ it seems endless </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> what can happen... This will take quite some time though. I don't think it's around the corner like most do. What is around the </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> corner I think is a mix of the current human driven cars and cars that are fairly autonomous but require human supervision. </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> This is due to the culture around regulations and safety. And as long as there are a lot of human drivers on the road even </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> autonomous cars aren't as safe. If we're lucky municipalities will designate good routes to autonomous cars where full </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> autonomy might be allowed sooner (since there's no humans operating)... Currently peoples' status is partly tied up with their </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> vehicles. Of course I'm not a fan of this but the status aspect may come with expensive driving policies that give higher </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> priorities to road resources. Or ownership so they can have access to a vehicle during peak periods. Another thought I had </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> was safety regulation. Cars could come with different sensor packages and a question is what will be the minimum. For </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> instance some IR vision (or something) might be able to see a deer running through the bush. Even if your car doesn't have a </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> particular sensor on it, it could get the same information from the network. So a car ahead is tooting along and a deer is </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> about to run in front of it. It knows that from it's night vision package. Your car doesn't have the package but it buys the </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> information from the car ahead (based on the policies). Or perhaps it could be mandatory for safety information to be </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> passed along the network. Perhaps it will be worth having he expensive package because you can sell the data to other cars </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> in real time. One way or the other, sooner or later access to cars will be spread out a bit more evenly. It will be safer and </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> greener. The lower end might be municipal networks of shuttles and the higher end might be ownership or fancy-expensive </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> policy in your driving account(s). --Darcy Whyte Art+ inventorArtist.com | Makerspace <a href="http://hack613.com" target="_blank">hack613.com</a> | Aviation </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> rubber-power.comContact: darcy@inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text) On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:20 </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> PM Ryan Stec <<a href="mailto:ryanstec@artengine.ca" target="_blank">ryanstec@artengine.ca</a>> wrote:</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Robin Chase, founder of ZipCar talked alot about the role transportation companies will </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> play, given the fleet infrastructure they already have.This is a great panel discussion with Robin </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Chase and Anthony Townsend which has some great insight.<a href="https://youtu.be/ubDQrOkHY1c---" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/ubDQrOkHY1c---</a></i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Ryan Stec</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Artistic Director</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> <a href="http://artengine.ca" target="_blank">artengine.ca</a></i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> @artengine</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> On 2018-06-04 10:47, Jason Cobill wrote:</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> What's AVIS going to do when autonomous cars and ridesharing put the nail in the coffin on the car </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> rental industry? They have all the experience and facilities to service huge fleets of cars - cleaning, </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> fuelling, and repairing their own huge fleet of vehicles, plus they have parking lots and vehicle </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> charging stations at airports and in urban cores. ... so they're exploring becoming a service provider </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> for autonomous vehicles. After a hard morning of dropping office-workers off, your UBER will drive </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> out to the airport to wait it's turn in line to be shampooed and fuelled up and ready for the next </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> customer. <a href="https://www.wired.com/story/avis-ohad-zeira-self-driving-future/" target="_blank">https://www.wired.com/story/avis-ohad-zeira-self-driving-future/</a> This is super brilliant. How </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> long until every step of the servicing is automated? Robot fuel attendants, robot carpet cleaners. </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Little robot that drives along with a rag and cleans your rims. :) </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> -Jason _______________________________________________</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Lab mailing list</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> 1. subscribe <a href="https://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">https://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a></i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> 2. then email <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca" target="_blank">Lab@artengine.ca</a> to send your message to the </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> list_______________________________________________</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Lab mailing list</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> 1. subscribe <a href="https://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">https://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a></i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> 2. then email <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca" target="_blank">Lab@artengine.ca</a> to send your message to the list</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> </i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> _______________________________________________</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> Lab mailing list</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> 1. subscribe <a href="https://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">https://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a></i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G" color="#7f0000"><span style="font-size:12pt"><i>> 2. then email <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca" target="_blank">Lab@artengine.ca</a> to send your message to the list</i></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Linux Libertine G"><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
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