[Lab] AGM

[Darcy Whyte]

Cool, as long as the discussion happens. Previously threads just got
dropped...

I do appreciate this.

Darcy



--
Darcy Whyte

Art+ inventorArtist.com <http://inventorartist.com/> | Aviation
rubber-power.com
Contact: darcy at inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)


On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Ryan Stec <ryanstec at artengine.ca> wrote:

> Darcy,
>
> To clarify, Dave has not had and will not have his membership revoked.
> Artengine has revoked only one membership in its entire history and this
> was a decision taken seriously by the organization. We will discuss with
> Dave the nature of the issue of his membership with Dave, and not the
> entire lab list.
>
> Most importantly I would like to strongly suggest this discussion be taken
> off line. We do not operate the Lab List to facilitate direct and personal
> criticism of our staff in a public forum. I cannot be more clear about
> this. It is unacceptable behavior and if you continue we will remove you
> from the list. The tone and nature of your communication is neither cordial
> nor constructive. We are happy to deal with your concerns and complaints
> one to one, but this list is not the forum for this.
>
> Regards,
> Ryan
>
> ___________________________
>
> Ryan Stec
> Artistic Director
> Artengine
> 2 Daly Ave.        Ottawa, ON
> K1N 6E2          613.686.1941
>
> Ottawa Mini-Maker Faire
> Co-presented with The CMST and Artengine
> August 16th and 17th
> http://makerfaireottawa.ca
>
> ------
>
> Read the Driving Creativity Blog at artengine.ca/blog
>
> Follow us on Twitter @artengine
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at inventorartist.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> Thanks for the note again... and thanks for the questions. I'll give you
>> my answers below but first I'll give my view on the situation I brought up
>> with Dave.
>>
>> I think it's appalling that Dave didn't receive an invite to the meeting.
>> I was involved in the conversation where where was some discussion about
>> open workshops.
>>
>> He's has been nothing but a great citizen helping people. Am I right that
>> he spent a lot of time (days) involved with the assembly, deployment and
>> support of the 3d printers? He has provided tonnes of support for people
>> using the laser despite not using it (or the rest of the resources).
>>
>> This whole trashing of his membership because he didn't do an open
>> workshop is completely unconstructive. He has good opinions and just
>> because he disagrees you quiet him with this open workshop thing. I still
>> think it's oogabooga.
>>
>> For me the open workshop thing was frustrating too. I had submitted my
>> proposal to Britta to do one or more Arduino related workshops which she
>> ignored. So I was a little surprised when she said "I've have such a
>> struggle with keeping instructor the past few weeks..." around April 30th.
>> There was no struggle, had she answered my email I'd have done several
>> workshops. I had also discussed wordpress even earlier than that (last year
>> my Wordpress workshops were very popular with more than 20 people in
>> attendance on one occasion). I had many requests for the Wordpress and I
>> ran it in a different venue since there was no time-slot that wasn't ages
>> in advance. And Britta wasn't open to running it on an off Thursday (open
>> workshops were every other Thursday).
>>
>> I got tired of waiting and I started to organize workshops and support
>> sessions to welcome new Arduino people on my own. We've had 30 or 40
>> meetups to date as a matter of fact.
>>
>> The Thursday workshops were a complete waste. The time was blocked off in
>> the schedule so of course nobody could book the lab on those evenings. What
>> a waste. But in practice what was happening was the lab was empty or a
>> couple of people were in there working on projects (I was one of them at
>> times). I started to book some of my Arduino activities in those wasted
>> spaces and of course Britta finally booked an event creating a conflict. I
>> chose a Thursday that she did not have blocked off as an open workshop
>> Thursday. The prior one was booked by Britta but there was no actual
>> workshop. So clearly the following is open since it's every other Thursday).
>>
>> I got all this friction that I needed some sort of permission to be doing
>> the Arduino stuff. I was surprised that Britta didn't find the fact that I
>> was creating workshops convenient (given her stated frustration).
>>
>> I just scrapped my Thursday Arduino activity to resolve the conflict (I
>> think Britta's was booked on fairly short notice and I heard the instructor
>> didn't show and there was like one or two people that came)...
>>
>> After the smoke cleared Britta decided to bless the Arduino activity
>> instead of giving it friction. I can imagine had I left my Thursday
>> conflicting schedule I'd be in Dave's shoes.
>>
>> By then I had run numerous Arduino activities and Britta said she would
>> let me use it as my Open Workshop Credit. I continued to facilitate the
>> group and we diversified our location and schedule.
>>
>> I should mention that Dave was in the middle of this being the good
>> citizen that he is. .He not only helped and supported the endeavor he came
>> with his family (he often brings his family and children to Modlab too).
>>
>> Dave made the flyer for our first Arduino contest. He donated the
>> "mystery component", provided a reference circuit and arduino sketch so
>> people could get started. We assembled the kits to be mailed and handed out
>> at a ModLab. Dave and others were there assembling the kits.
>>
>> So Dave might be kicked out of Artengine but he's not kicked out of my
>> various circles. He's valuable.
>>
>> And by the way, many people were very helpful with the Arduino
>> activities. Doug donated kits for people to learn soldering for instance.
>> Many people who were very strong in electronics spent lots of time helping
>> newcomers.
>>
>> When Britta rolled out "You are receiving this email because you have
>> yet to complete your *mandatory* Open Workshop." on April 30th the year
>> of membership for most people is about half used. This sort of policing
>> effort should have started right away and perhaps could have been more
>> inviting that a threat.
>>
>> I knew that my Open Workshop was finally covered with the numerous
>> Arduino support activities... I never saw this as a mandatory thing
>> requiring policing. I wanted to share and help people. As does everybody
>> else. But I'm not sure a clumsy policing message and then cutting people
>> off without notifying them is all that enlightened.
>>
>> Technically Dave hasn't met your kickout requirement until his membership
>> is expired. A more constructive approach would have been to invite him to
>> the ADM and discuss it face to face.
>>
>> But anyway, that's how I feel about your selection of invites for the
>> ADM.
>>
>> Not very good.
>>
>> [end rant]
>>
>> Okay now about those questions...
>>
>> You mentioned I've made a lot of suggestions on how to run things. I've
>> more had issues with tactical stuff. Not sure I've made any suggestions
>> on strategic things except that there should be some openness and
>> connectivity between the controlling group and the wider community.
>>
>> *What participation in Artengine means to me.*
>>
>> Participation in Artengine activities has meant a great deal to me.
>> Modlab has been awesome. I have connected to many supportive people and
>> have helped a lot of people as well. It has given me inspiration and ideas
>> for projects. Workspace and social space.
>>
>> Making things and the communities that surround this has become very
>> central for me so modlab has become a frequent hangout.
>>
>> I have brought many people from other groups and social circles to
>> modlab. Many have joined over the years.
>>
>> I have brought many friends who have much to offer.
>>
>> I had hoped that this would be a conduit into the organization and
>> members. It wasn't but was a conduit into the wider community.
>>
>> I participate in the listserv. I help people and get lots of ideas and
>> support from the listserv.
>>
>> I took a couple of short breaks from the listserv when there
>> was clumsy noisy policing in the list. At one point I was going to
>> encourage an organization I was volunteering for (who makes masks) to add
>> lighting or other more technical things to their repertoire. I started to
>> plan to find people that might be interested and also to eventually invite
>> them to modlab to connect them. When I sent my initial ping to the list
>> asking if anybody knew about the organization (to see if anybody
>> was already engaging them or had already tried), I got policed for bringing
>> up something that's off topic and irrelevant. I'd have explained but I
>> decided that this sort of idiotic policing made the list less interesting
>> and I took a break.
>>
>> Participation in the makerfaires has also been a light in my life. This
>> to me is bigger than Christmas. I traveled to NYC and other cities for
>> their makerfaires and of course was thrilled that this came to Ottawa.
>>
>> I was devastated that a space was not kept for me at one of the Artengine
>> organized makerfairs. I had been talking it up with Britta (and my
>> community) but was profoundly hurt and disappointed that I could not be in
>> a makerfaire in my own community. I knew there was extra space at the
>> faire (don't forget all my friends had spaces and were there). I felt I
>> should have my own identity in the fair (my own table) especially since I
>> was so active in my own community. This was such a turnoff and so saddening
>> for me that I have not attended any other makerfairs until the first local
>> one at the Science Museum. I had a sense that Britta wasn't batting for me
>> on this. I was right. The outcome was that I was not given a table at the
>> fair like most of my friends.
>>
>>
>> *Is there responsibility that should come with formal membership to the
>> organization?*
>>
>> Whatever they are it should be clear at signup. Whatever bylaws should be
>> automatically disclosed.
>>
>> *Is there responsibility that should come with being a participant in the
>> community of Artengine? **How are these different?*
>>
>> If you mean the community outside of membership, no. That's the Modlab
>> community as far as I know. It's an open house.
>>
>> *What efforts did you make as a member of the organization to understand
>> the governing or operational structure of Artengine? How did you
>> participate in that process?*
>>
>> I attended AGMs.
>>
>> I read the entire Web and the Wiki site numerous times.
>> http://www.artengine.ca/modlab/index.php/Structure There isn't much in
>> the wiki. The Web site has all sorts of claims of what the organization
>> does and how it works (democratic stuff, mission, vision etc.)...
>>
>> I attended Modlab regularly (didn't learn about community or connect to
>> the controlling group).
>>
>> I participated in the Wiki where people said what machines and tools they
>> think would benefit the community. I heard of things that were being
>> purchased since then but there's a disconnect between what came forward on
>> the wiki and what was happening.
>>
>> I had numerous conversations face to face and email. Much of email is
>> just unanswered or badly handled.
>>
>> For instance when I was apparently a villain for organizing unsanctioned
>> arduino activities that would have been a great time to send documents (if
>> they exist) about the bylaws. I know some of this stuff is made up on the
>> spot so there may not be documents. But I could have been given what there
>> was.
>>
>> For instance when I asked Remco where the money went from the 3D
>> print-a-thon fund raiser, he didn't answer. But he could have send me the
>> ledgers and latest of financial statements.
>>
>> When having dialogue about recent sudden changes to membership
>> policy/scope/liability it was enforced that there's "owner-operators on one
>> side and user-members on the other". Dave and I were asked to explain why
>> more involvement in process by members would be better. This was a great
>> chance to give out documentation of how the organization is currently run.
>>
>> I've still never seen previous bylaws. Why not make it easy and just put
>> it at your Web site?
>>
>> Wouldn't giving out this information be a real invitation to be involved?
>> What about inviting members to an actual meeting?
>>
>> I did request some documents (from the funding). I'm supposing that's
>> still in progress?
>>
>> A point worth mentioning (that I could have added to my previous
>> messages) is that I'm not calling for change anymore.
>>
>> I'm interested in sharing my opinion for the benefit of people and the
>> organization. But I don't have the confidence that the integrity and
>> genuine interest exists to make this whole thing more fair. I'm taking a
>> break worry about the organization integrity. I'm not sure if I'm a member
>> anyways. Am I?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darcy Whyte
>>
>> Art+ inventorArtist.com <http://inventorartist.com/> | Aviation
>> rubber-power.com
>> Contact: darcy at inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no text)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Ryan Stec <ryanstec at artengine.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Darcy,
>>>
>>> I'll continue to answer your questions here as that is partially what we
>>> are here to do as staff. We welcome the opportunity to discuss these
>>> matters as they are as important as the technological and creative
>>> discussions.
>>>
>>> I believe these to be your original questions and the answers will be
>>> below.
>>>
>>> ---Dave wasn't invited to the AGM. If people don't know about stuff then
>>> it's
>>> not a good tool. Was the AGM announced outside of sending invites out to
>>> a
>>> private list?
>>>
>>> *The AGM was announced to members in good standing.*
>>>
>>> ---That's good to know that there's a 5 percent rule. Has that been in
>>> play
>>> for the past years?
>>>
>>>
>>> *Yes, it has been part of the By-Laws since they where set up initially.*
>>> ----How may members are there? Nobody really knows who is a member. The
>>> member
>>> list at http://artengine.ca/community/members-en.php  doesn't seem to
>>> be a
>>> good reflection of membership. Or is it?
>>>
>>> *We make the online member list public because it is something people
>>> wanted and paid for. We have not kept a Producing Member list public. There
>>> are about 75 members of all kinds at Artengine. This fluctuates of course. *
>>>
>>>
>>> If I can, I have some questions for you, you can answer them here or
>>> offline. I ask them because you have made alot of suggestions about how we
>>> should operate, and below are some questions we have been asking at
>>> Artengine about our membership and community. It is an opportunity for you
>>> to provide input in a transparent and constructive way:
>>>
>>> What does participation in Artengine mean to you?
>>> Is there responsibility that should come with formal membership to the
>>> organization?
>>> Is there responsibility that should come with being a participant in the
>>> community of Artengine?
>>> How are these different?
>>> What efforts did you make as a member of the organization to understand
>>> the governing or operational structure of Artengine?
>>> How did you participate in that process?
>>>
>>> I have many more questions, but I think that is a good place to start.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________
>>>
>>> Ryan Stec
>>> Artistic Director
>>> Artengine
>>> 2 Daly Ave.        Ottawa, ON
>>> K1N 6E2          613.686.1941
>>>
>>> Ottawa Mini-Maker Faire
>>> Co-presented with The CMST and Artengine
>>> August 16th and 17th
>>> http://makerfaireottawa.ca
>>>
>>> ------
>>>
>>> Read the Driving Creativity Blog at artengine.ca/blog
>>>
>>> Follow us on Twitter @artengine
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:05 AM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at inventorartist.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ryan,
>>>>
>>>> I am quite aware of the distinction of Artengine and Modlab. My
>>>> comments are about artengine.
>>>>
>>>> My issue is there has not been genuine and significant engagement of
>>>> the inner artengine group with the member community.
>>>>
>>>> Whatever bylaw structure Artengine has had is all news to me. The first
>>>> document I ever received was just before the recent AGM. Well there is the
>>>> attached waiver but frankly I saw that as just sudden-new rules/terms for
>>>> members vs. information about the organization, bylaws and so forth.
>>>> Especially since it was served with a warning of loss of use of the member
>>>> resources if it were not sighed before the sudden due date...
>>>>
>>>> I'm not convinced the AGM is a genuine opportunity to contribute aside
>>>> from signing up (which didn't apply this year). It hasn't been in the past.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just noticing another email you sent to me to address the
>>>> unanswered questions I referred to around 10:40p. I've just skimmed it so
>>>> far but you've not addressed the unanswered questions I was referring to.
>>>> Just comments on my additional questions I posed after my comment of
>>>> answered questions.
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to see the planning documents that were used to obtain
>>>> government funding. Please send those.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darcy Whyte
>>>>
>>>> Art+ inventorArtist.com <http://inventorartist.com/> | Aviation
>>>> rubber-power.com
>>>> Contact: darcy at inventorArtist.com | 613-563-3634 by appointment (no
>>>> text)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Ryan Stec <ryanstec at artengine.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Darcy,
>>>>>
>>>>> To follow up on a few points that may help clarify things for yourself
>>>>> and others on the list. This is a brief overview of the system of
>>>>> governance of the organization. As I stated in the previous response there
>>>>> are other ways to interact, but below is the formal framework.
>>>>>
>>>>> Artengine is a non-profit member-based organization. Membership (up
>>>>> until now) has been based on who pays their member dues, a very simple and
>>>>> open concept. Members have a primary say in the operations of the
>>>>> organization. The Annual General Meeting is for Members (you cannot attend
>>>>> if you have not paid) to come together check the financials, meet the board
>>>>> members and all the staff, give feedback and have the opportunity to
>>>>> provide direct input to any major changes in high level policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is different from a community. We have a Mod Lab community. There
>>>>> are artists outside of that. There are audiences. There are Artlist
>>>>> subscribers. All different over-lapping communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can characterize membership as exclusive, but all membership is
>>>>> exclusive by definition. All organizations need functional boundaries
>>>>> otherwise they risk stretching themselves into meaninglessness. This is the
>>>>> same with communities. We can say that everyone is welcome, and this may be
>>>>> true, but a community does not include everyone. They have functional
>>>>> limits, geographic ones, ones defined by interest or otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> This membership structure (like the one we have) is very wide spread
>>>>> in cultural organizations and non-profits of all kind in Canada. It is,
>>>>> however, in need of updating, much like everyone else, and through the new
>>>>> Canada Corporations Act, and so all non-profits in the country have been
>>>>> looking at their By-Law structure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keeping in mind that this is the formal structure at the heart of
>>>>> Artengine, to which you where mostly aware of, I hope I can make the
>>>>> following point very clear:
>>>>>
>>>>> By choosing not to attend the Annual General Meeting (never mind the
>>>>> active encouragement of others not to attend) you forfeited your principal
>>>>> avenue for participation in the operations of Artengine. As a member you
>>>>> received all of the documents that where to be reviewed at the AGM and were
>>>>> aware of the important discussion of the meeting, but choose not to
>>>>> participate in the formal opportunity available to you. We invited you to
>>>>> the discussion, and you decided not to join us. This kind of communal
>>>>> project is not only about voicing an opinion. It is also about
>>>>> participation and responsibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, we will, of course, take your criticism into consideration.
>>>>> Communication can be improved. Transparency can also be improved. We are
>>>>> working on this.
>>>>>
>>>>> On a personal note Darcy, I have been involved with Artengine for a
>>>>> long time and have put alot of myself into this organization, largely
>>>>> because I think both its community and its output are important. It is
>>>>> unfortunate to be categorized as a faceless controller. I am happy to
>>>>> continue talking about all of this, Artengine and more, in this public
>>>>> forum, but only if it is given the kind of care that face-to-face
>>>>> interaction is given. We provide this forum for constructive communication
>>>>> and we hope that extends from working and helping each other on projects to
>>>>> how you approach and interact with the organization itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> Ryan Stec
>>>>> Artistic Director
>>>>> Artengine
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan Stec
>>>>> Artistic Director
>>>>> Artengine
>>>>> 2 Daly Ave.        Ottawa, ON
>>>>> K1N 6E2          613.686.1941
>>>>>
>>>>> Ottawa Mini-Maker Faire
>>>>> Co-presented with The CMST and Artengine
>>>>> August 16th and 17th
>>>>> http://makerfaireottawa.ca
>>>>>
>>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> Read the Driving Creativity Blog at artengine.ca/blog
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow us on Twitter @artengine
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:43 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your note is appreciated. My questions aren't answered though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it was awkward (but necessary) to meet with people on the AGM
>>>>>> night. There were people who are not in the invited group and other
>>>>>> outsiders. People that didn't want to attend and kicked out people. It's
>>>>>> the law (in terms of retaining legal status) known to some but not to most.
>>>>>> And it's not the law for non members, the general public and people that
>>>>>> were just attending modlab. I knew my meeting would receive poop though.
>>>>>> I'm interested in the wide community not just an inner group that controls
>>>>>> a specific resource.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I realize there are possible improvements to the *official *way to
>>>>>> be a member of the community that is artengine (and mattering). Needing
>>>>>> improvement is never a fault in itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does the controlling group want "members" to know what's going on and
>>>>>> have their input?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so it's easy (regardless of legal structure). If there's some
>>>>>> activity that includes both members and controlling group then it might be
>>>>>> natural (activity among members is good, ways of members discovering each
>>>>>> other). AGM might not be a good example since it represents a small amount
>>>>>> of time each year and not a real time for dialogue (outside of telling
>>>>>> what's up). If it was called the MGM that'd be different. But nobody's
>>>>>> invited to that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some members (I'm assuming they are members since they say or think
>>>>>> they are) tell me they would not recognize numerous of the people in the
>>>>>> controlling group. This worth thinking about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On that note, at the moment it's hard to know if your a member. I
>>>>>> personally think I might be. On one hand my membership has expired. On the
>>>>>> other hand, I heard a rumor that the membership was status quo till the end
>>>>>> of the year. Will there be communication on this? Surely I'm not the only
>>>>>> member (or expired member) that missed the meeting. Or am I?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A disconnect. Is this a fail of genuine interest (by the controlling
>>>>>> group) or just some logistical, complicated business oogabooga?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand private clubs and business and family businesses. I had
>>>>>> some hope this was more of a communal project. That's more the issue here.
>>>>>> But don't trivialize this as an expectation thing. Funds are given with
>>>>>> some communal expectation right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By they way, don't think for a moment I think artengine doesn't do
>>>>>> good. It clearly does. But I feel let down on wanting to be a member of
>>>>>> your community and not just being a subscriber to service that comes and
>>>>>> goes based on someone else's interest/convenience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also don't think for a moment that I have not used obvious channels
>>>>>> like talking to people in the organization to be involved in the usual way
>>>>>> one would. Most of encounters were "resolved' by
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -not answering my questions,
>>>>>> -some assertion that there are two sides, "members" and the
>>>>>> organization (one makes decisions the other hears about them)
>>>>>> -or asking for a some softness based on profound incompetence (
>>>>>> Hanlon's Razor).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Darcy
>>>>>> subscriber
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Darcy Whyte
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Software Since '88 siteware.com | Contact: darcy at siteware.com |
>>>>>> 613-563-3634 by appointment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Canada N 45° 25'03.1" W 75° 42'21.4"
>>>>>> Art+ inventorArtist.com <http://inventorartist.com/> | Aviation
>>>>>> rubber-power.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Ryan Stec <ryanstec at artengine.ca>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Darcy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In response to your questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All paid members where invited to the AGM, if you where a member in
>>>>>>> good standing you where invited.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In our old system paying for service is tied to membership. This was
>>>>>>> one of the reasons we offered reduced memberships at the AGM to encourage
>>>>>>> members to participate in governance. Membership is also one of the key
>>>>>>> legal structures of the organization. You must be a member to exercise your
>>>>>>> vote in matters of legal importance to the organization, principally the
>>>>>>> election of the board but other major changes to the bylaws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your point that if people don't know about stuff it's not a good
>>>>>>> tool is inductive also of how the membership structure as it stood was not
>>>>>>> a good tool for development of the organization. We are working to make
>>>>>>> tools for Artengine that work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reality that as an active member you choose to suggest another
>>>>>>> meeting, while the AGM was occurring, rather than encouraging participation
>>>>>>> in the process seems also telling of a need for change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the important points we raised at the meeting last night is
>>>>>>> that this is only one small aspect of how people participate in the
>>>>>>> direction and operation of the organization. There are a number of other
>>>>>>> ways including volunteering, casual conversation, discussions on this list,
>>>>>>>  and even just plain use of the space.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We hope the new membership will offer deeper engagement with the
>>>>>>> organization and with each other. Thanks for those who participated in the
>>>>>>> process and we look forward to speaking with everyone about how to continue
>>>>>>> to improve Artengine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ryan Stec
>>>>>>> Artistic Director
>>>>>>> Artengine
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> Sent from a mobile device.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm glad the meeting was a success.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave wasn't invited to the AGM. If people don't know about stuff
>>>>>>> then it's
>>>>>>> not a good tool. Was the AGM announced outside of sending invites
>>>>>>> out to a
>>>>>>> private list?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's good to know that there's a 5 percent rule. Has that been in
>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>> for the past years?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How may members are there? Nobody really knows who is a member. The
>>>>>>> member
>>>>>>> list athttp://artengine.ca/community/members-en.php doesn't seem to
>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>> good reflection of membership. Or is it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To know if there are 5% of members interested in something the
>>>>>>> members need
>>>>>>> to be able to find each other.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lab mailing list
>>>>>>> 1. subscribe http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab
>>>>>>> 2. then email Lab at artengine.ca to send your message to the list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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