[Lab] Thoughts on Bitcoins, and the like?

[Tom Burns]

The GH vendor makes a straight profit in USD, the renter accepts the
bitcoin volatility.


On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Richard Sloan <rsloan at themindfactory.com>wrote:

> Ok what am I not getting here.... I see online you can pay approx $10/GH
> for someone to mine coins for you per month, I use online calculator that
> says 1 GH will return $20 in bitcoin per month... so why do these server
> farms not use all their power for themselves and make 2X the profit....
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Oh and by the way, an interesting one to many people on this mailing
>> list...
>>
>> Adafruit accepts bitcoin. So you can buy components, kits, and other
>> gadgets from adafruit via bitcoin directly.
>>
>> - Paul
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Re-copying lab list into this one, as my previous email about places
>>> that accept bitcoin is probably useful to everyone.
>>>
>>> Also I was looking for this one but couldn't remember the URL this is a
>>> cool one with a listing of businesses (mostly physical locations) that
>>> accept bitcoin. With a nice interface on a map to find them:
>>>
>>> http://usebitcoins.info
>>>
>>> - Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are quite a few places that accept them.
>>>>
>>>> Some highlevel summaries:
>>>> - Many bitcoin specific businesses of course
>>>> - Many hosting businesses
>>>> - Many digital service businesses, and freelancers
>>>> - Several online electronics and computer equipment shops
>>>> - Several places allow you to buy gift cards with bitcoin for popular
>>>> retailers
>>>> - A handful of resteraunts, cafes, and bars.
>>>> - Adult industry is adopting it heavily
>>>> - Now it's announced that Shopify will allow merchants to accept bitcoin
>>>> - BitPay is a payment processor allowing vendors to easily accept
>>>> bitcoin (which has over 12,000 vendors listed as accepting bitcoin)
>>>> - Virgin Galactic accepts bitcoin for private space flight
>>>> - Humble Bundle and Humble Store accept bitcoin for purchasing Indie
>>>> Games
>>>> - spendbitcoin is a listing of vendors (not a very good site though)
>>>> that accept bitcoin
>>>> - Dominos Pizza in the USA accepts bitcoin
>>>> - There is a large university in Cyprus that accepts tuition in bitcoin
>>>> - Chicago Online Property Management firm Rentulations now allows all
>>>> their tenants to pay their actual rent in bitcoins
>>>> - Several charities are accepting bitcoin donations
>>>> - There is a fairly strong bitcoin Gambling industry. Including a
>>>> massive one satoshidice, and several poker sites, and other online gambling
>>>> options.
>>>> - In the USA several politicians are accepting bitcoin now for campaign
>>>> contributions.
>>>>
>>>> A couple links:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.coindesk.com/rentalutions-enables-us-residents-to-pay-rent-in-bitcoins/
>>>> https://bitpay.com/directory#/
>>>> https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/
>>>>
>>>> So it's far from "general acceptance" but it is certainly accepted in
>>>> quite a few spots.
>>>>
>>>> Also it's quite easy to accept bitcoin payments for anyone, either
>>>> directly, or using a service like BitPay. For example BitPay makes the
>>>> process transparent to vendors... You set pricing in USD, they allow
>>>> bitcoin payments at market rate exchanges (auto-calculated pricing). And
>>>> deposit the USD directly in your account, so you never have to touch
>>>> bitcoin as a vendor, yet you can accept it.
>>>>
>>>> As for how common it is. An interesting point. One neat thing about
>>>> bitcoin is that all transactions are public record...
>>>> So, as of today's stats, the bitcoin market cap is at about $12 Billion
>>>> USD (at current USD/BTC exchange rates).
>>>> The daily transaction volume is over $300 Million USD (at current
>>>> USD/BTC exchange rates)
>>>> Does that help answer your questions? :)
>>>>
>>>> - Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Aurelius R <maxrowsell at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The only part you missed was -- where can I spend them? Sounds like a
>>>>> really cool idea, however, this is only the second or third time I've ever
>>>>> heard of them, and I can only think of one website that accepts them (the
>>>>> site I buy my web hosting and DNS from)...
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it more common than I think?
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________
>>>>> Peace, Love, Empathy
>>>>>
>>>>> Alexander Max Rowsell
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27 November 2013 13:04, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That can be a very loaded question(s) (answers to those questions
>>>>>> could result in a several hour long discussion, not to mention some heated
>>>>>> debate lol)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But... The highlevel... What is bitcoin:
>>>>>> - Bitcoin is a digital currency. Could be equated to digital "cash".
>>>>>> (It's commonly called a CryptoCurrency because it heavily relies on
>>>>>> Cryptography at it's core)
>>>>>> - It is not a virtual construct of some company or organization (like
>>>>>> canadian tire dollars). It is a purely digital asset, which is not under
>>>>>> the control of any central authority.
>>>>>> - It is fully decentralized. No one body has control, no one body
>>>>>> runs the network.
>>>>>> - As a result it is immune to manipulation by governments/banks (for
>>>>>> example, it is designed to be stable, in reality it's actually a bit
>>>>>> deflationary, and is not subject to inflation like dollars)
>>>>>> - Transacting bitcoin (especially across international lines) is FAR
>>>>>> easier than any other method, and FAR more affordable. (also practically
>>>>>> instant, with a few caveats)
>>>>>> - Bitcoin is highly secure (again with a few caveats, the big one
>>>>>> being, bitcoin itself is secure, but the services surrounding it are up to
>>>>>> individuals to make secure).
>>>>>> If you want me to get into a more technical discussion of "How" it
>>>>>> works, I can do that, but it can get pretty deep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can you get some?
>>>>>> - You can buy some on an exchange such as cavirtex.com which
>>>>>> operates like a standard forex exchange. It's an open market, and people
>>>>>> buy/sell bitcoin for $CAD.
>>>>>> - You can transact direct from person to person with no third party
>>>>>> involved. The same as cash. So I could meet you at a coffee shop, give you
>>>>>> bitcoin in exchange for dollars.
>>>>>> - You can use an ATM (coming soon!) lol... The first bitcoin ATMs are
>>>>>> being rolled out in BC. And I'm hoping to assist in a rollout in Ottawa
>>>>>> area in the near future.
>>>>>> - You can "Mine" bitcoin. This is a very complex topic to explain in
>>>>>> full detail. But lets just equate it to gold mining. Gold exists in the
>>>>>> earth in a fixed quantity. And Miners work to uncover that gold and make it
>>>>>> usable and transactable. The same works with bitcoin. There are a fixed
>>>>>> number of them that will ever exist. That can't be changed. Miners work to
>>>>>> "find" those bitcoin over time using advanced computing equipment. (which I
>>>>>> happen to manufacture). Originally you could mine using simply a low power
>>>>>> PC. Then you used advanced GPU cards (Graphics processors) to do number
>>>>>> crunching much faster and more efficiently. The ecosystem has evolved now
>>>>>> to a point where advanced special purpose hardware is used with 100% custom
>>>>>> processors made purely for mining bitcoins are used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's the point?
>>>>>> - Well as mentioned above, bitcoin is seen by some as a savings
>>>>>> vehicle. Since it's been demonstrating deflationary attributes. An
>>>>>> investment in bitcoin has had VERY high returns for those holding onto them
>>>>>> long term... But it's also been fairly volatile, and as a result you have
>>>>>> to have a strong stomach to play that game in a serious way lol.
>>>>>> - It's useful for transacting money internationally quick, easily,
>>>>>> and cheaply.
>>>>>> - Several businesses accept bitcoin now as a means of payment. So you
>>>>>> can use it to pay for goods and services.
>>>>>> - It's cool and new-age. And it's neat to be part of something
>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>> - To expand on the previous point. It's a disruptive technology. And
>>>>>> has the potential to impact the world in a big way. Again, cool to be part
>>>>>> of that (if it is successul)
>>>>>> - Allows you to take back some degree of control of your finances.
>>>>>> You can have a say in how bitcoin works. and no single entity is in
>>>>>> control, it's a true democracy (again with caveats)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point in the game bitcoin is still young. It's come
>>>>>> lightyears from it's beginnings, and has some major traction globally. But
>>>>>> it's still nowhere near fully "mainstream" yet. It's still a niche. But
>>>>>> it's growing rapidly every day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me know if you have any other questions. I also suggest checking
>>>>>> out the Bitcoin Foundation, and the Wikipedia article on bitcoin. both are
>>>>>> decent starting points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo
>>>>>> Is a decent video primer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bitcoin Foundation: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Aurelius R <maxrowsell at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are bitcoins and how can i get/use them? Is there a point?
>>>>>>> Dollars have always worked well for me thus far
>>>>>>> On 2013-11-27 11:59 AM, "Tom Burns" <tom.i.burns at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.shopify.com/blog/10446157-shopify-merchants-can-now-accept-bitcoin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Walking through the halls today all you hear are people talking
>>>>>>>> about bitcoin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>>>>>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry guys, we're well past the beta testing phase :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Not to mention that's an expensive beta test. Our prototypes are
>>>>>>>>> generating half a bitcoin per day, with several limitations on them. The
>>>>>>>>> final mass production units we expect to generate nearly 1BTC per day at
>>>>>>>>> current difficulties. And at a value of $900/BTC or more, even a 1 week
>>>>>>>>> beta test is equal to nearly $7000 in revenue ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We're just finalizing one or two minor bugs in the design, and
>>>>>>>>> expect to be in mass production any day now for our first production batch.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:58 PM, <bentfork at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Paul do let us know if you need some beta testers...  Any excuse
>>>>>>>>>> to get a better internet connection at modlab.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you on CaVertex?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 26 November 2013 18:37, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>>>>>>>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If anyone wants to do a bitcoin transaction, I can certainly
>>>>>>>>>>> facilitate. I've got a fully trusted business account on the Canadian
>>>>>>>>>>> exchange. So I can easily move funds into and out of BTC/CAD
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also I currently own a business manufacturing custom ASIC based
>>>>>>>>>>> mining equipment (or rather we're close to launching our first product).
>>>>>>>>>>> But you're right. The "individual hobby miner" is becoming a thing of the
>>>>>>>>>>> past. Most of our equipment is targeted to large scale enterprise miners,
>>>>>>>>>>> targeting datacenter deployments.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Jamie <
>>>>>>>>>>> jamie at steppinofftheedge.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's been a great practical point of discussion with my family
>>>>>>>>>>>> about subjective value, currencies, technology, etc. Got my son all the
>>>>>>>>>>>> pieces to GPU mine as a Grade 8 graduation present. He made 20 coins with
>>>>>>>>>>>> it that he spent for a Jalepeno miner that has since made him 6 or 7 coins.
>>>>>>>>>>>> He's ok with that, I kind of wish I'd just bought him the PC's worth of BTC
>>>>>>>>>>>> as the present which would be worth MUCH more now ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm also done recording an interview and other media that
>>>>>>>>>>>> should have a Bitcoin themed podcast out by the end of the weekend (I
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope). Check steppinofftheedge.com for it soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Henri Kuschkowitz <
>>>>>>>>>>>> henri.kuschkowitz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I second that Dave. It would definitely an interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion if everyone could make it out. We did touch on that subject 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks ago (?) but only on setting up mining rigs and whether or not it’s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still valuable at a smaller scale.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> HK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 26, 2013, at 3:14 PM, dave at huntgang.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been following the bit coin news! In fact, I gave a big
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lecture to a bunch of guys at work after the fall of SilkRoad how the US
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Government would be forced to accept BitCoin as a form of value and it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inevitable increase in value... Of course, I never did buy any and am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicking myself now!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2013-11-26 3:05 pm, bentfork at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought there would be some here that knew what I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking about.  Does anyone have experience with local bitcoin?  I'd rather
>>>>>>>>>>>>> trade with people I kind of know, rather than strangers.  I'd like to try
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cashing out ~ 2 btc, or equivalent litecoin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 November 2013 14:56, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ooh, neat, I'm interested to see what that announcement is :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Tom Burns <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tom.i.burns at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I work for Shopify.  We are about to announce something :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just FYI I'm fairly heavily involved/invested in Bitcoin. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own a fairly large business focusing around them, And I'm a fairly fervent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We're working from several angles right now on trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build up adoption in the area.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I weren't so damned busy lately trying to hold up a day
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job, run a business, and juggle half a dozen projects at once, I'd drag
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself down to Modlab to catch up :) (in which case I'd be happy to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a discussion with anyone who's interested)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:35 PM, <bentfork at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I'm curious if any other list members have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following the crypto currency news recently.  I've been watching the space
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the last year or two on and off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure if there are any local vendors that accept
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitcoin yet but it is a interesting movement.  It is always interesting to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear of restaurants, bars and online stores that are taking it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any Bitcoin, Lightcoin, etc enthusiasts on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list?  Anyone interested in a informal discussion on them some Wednesday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during a mod lab?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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