[Lab] Thoughts on Bitcoins, and the like?

Paul & Andrea Mumby themumbys at gmail.com
Wed Nov 27 16:38:36 EST 2013 

Re-copying lab list into this one, as my previous email about places that
accept bitcoin is probably useful to everyone.

Also I was looking for this one but couldn't remember the URL this is a
cool one with a listing of businesses (mostly physical locations) that
accept bitcoin. With a nice interface on a map to find them:

http://usebitcoins.info

- Paul


On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com>wrote:

> There are quite a few places that accept them.
>
> Some highlevel summaries:
> - Many bitcoin specific businesses of course
> - Many hosting businesses
> - Many digital service businesses, and freelancers
> - Several online electronics and computer equipment shops
> - Several places allow you to buy gift cards with bitcoin for popular
> retailers
> - A handful of resteraunts, cafes, and bars.
> - Adult industry is adopting it heavily
> - Now it's announced that Shopify will allow merchants to accept bitcoin
> - BitPay is a payment processor allowing vendors to easily accept bitcoin
> (which has over 12,000 vendors listed as accepting bitcoin)
> - Virgin Galactic accepts bitcoin for private space flight
> - Humble Bundle and Humble Store accept bitcoin for purchasing Indie Games
> - spendbitcoin is a listing of vendors (not a very good site though) that
> accept bitcoin
> - Dominos Pizza in the USA accepts bitcoin
> - There is a large university in Cyprus that accepts tuition in bitcoin
> - Chicago Online Property Management firm Rentulations now allows all
> their tenants to pay their actual rent in bitcoins
> - Several charities are accepting bitcoin donations
> - There is a fairly strong bitcoin Gambling industry. Including a massive
> one satoshidice, and several poker sites, and other online gambling options.
> - In the USA several politicians are accepting bitcoin now for campaign
> contributions.
>
> A couple links:
>
> http://www.coindesk.com/rentalutions-enables-us-residents-to-pay-rent-in-bitcoins/
> https://bitpay.com/directory#/
> https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/
>
> So it's far from "general acceptance" but it is certainly accepted in
> quite a few spots.
>
> Also it's quite easy to accept bitcoin payments for anyone, either
> directly, or using a service like BitPay. For example BitPay makes the
> process transparent to vendors... You set pricing in USD, they allow
> bitcoin payments at market rate exchanges (auto-calculated pricing). And
> deposit the USD directly in your account, so you never have to touch
> bitcoin as a vendor, yet you can accept it.
>
> As for how common it is. An interesting point. One neat thing about
> bitcoin is that all transactions are public record...
> So, as of today's stats, the bitcoin market cap is at about $12 Billion
> USD (at current USD/BTC exchange rates).
> The daily transaction volume is over $300 Million USD (at current USD/BTC
> exchange rates)
> Does that help answer your questions? :)
>
> - Paul
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Aurelius R <maxrowsell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The only part you missed was -- where can I spend them? Sounds like a
>> really cool idea, however, this is only the second or third time I've ever
>> heard of them, and I can only think of one website that accepts them (the
>> site I buy my web hosting and DNS from)...
>>
>> Is it more common than I think?
>>
>> ____________________
>> Peace, Love, Empathy
>>
>> Alexander Max Rowsell
>>
>>
>> On 27 November 2013 13:04, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> That can be a very loaded question(s) (answers to those questions could
>>> result in a several hour long discussion, not to mention some heated debate
>>> lol)...
>>>
>>> But... The highlevel... What is bitcoin:
>>> - Bitcoin is a digital currency. Could be equated to digital "cash".
>>> (It's commonly called a CryptoCurrency because it heavily relies on
>>> Cryptography at it's core)
>>> - It is not a virtual construct of some company or organization (like
>>> canadian tire dollars). It is a purely digital asset, which is not under
>>> the control of any central authority.
>>> - It is fully decentralized. No one body has control, no one body runs
>>> the network.
>>> - As a result it is immune to manipulation by governments/banks (for
>>> example, it is designed to be stable, in reality it's actually a bit
>>> deflationary, and is not subject to inflation like dollars)
>>> - Transacting bitcoin (especially across international lines) is FAR
>>> easier than any other method, and FAR more affordable. (also practically
>>> instant, with a few caveats)
>>> - Bitcoin is highly secure (again with a few caveats, the big one being,
>>> bitcoin itself is secure, but the services surrounding it are up to
>>> individuals to make secure).
>>> If you want me to get into a more technical discussion of "How" it
>>> works, I can do that, but it can get pretty deep.
>>>
>>> How can you get some?
>>> - You can buy some on an exchange such as cavirtex.com which operates
>>> like a standard forex exchange. It's an open market, and people buy/sell
>>> bitcoin for $CAD.
>>> - You can transact direct from person to person with no third party
>>> involved. The same as cash. So I could meet you at a coffee shop, give you
>>> bitcoin in exchange for dollars.
>>> - You can use an ATM (coming soon!) lol... The first bitcoin ATMs are
>>> being rolled out in BC. And I'm hoping to assist in a rollout in Ottawa
>>> area in the near future.
>>> - You can "Mine" bitcoin. This is a very complex topic to explain in
>>> full detail. But lets just equate it to gold mining. Gold exists in the
>>> earth in a fixed quantity. And Miners work to uncover that gold and make it
>>> usable and transactable. The same works with bitcoin. There are a fixed
>>> number of them that will ever exist. That can't be changed. Miners work to
>>> "find" those bitcoin over time using advanced computing equipment. (which I
>>> happen to manufacture). Originally you could mine using simply a low power
>>> PC. Then you used advanced GPU cards (Graphics processors) to do number
>>> crunching much faster and more efficiently. The ecosystem has evolved now
>>> to a point where advanced special purpose hardware is used with 100% custom
>>> processors made purely for mining bitcoins are used.
>>>
>>> What's the point?
>>> - Well as mentioned above, bitcoin is seen by some as a savings vehicle.
>>> Since it's been demonstrating deflationary attributes. An investment in
>>> bitcoin has had VERY high returns for those holding onto them long term...
>>> But it's also been fairly volatile, and as a result you have to have a
>>> strong stomach to play that game in a serious way lol.
>>> - It's useful for transacting money internationally quick, easily, and
>>> cheaply.
>>> - Several businesses accept bitcoin now as a means of payment. So you
>>> can use it to pay for goods and services.
>>> - It's cool and new-age. And it's neat to be part of something
>>> interesting
>>> - To expand on the previous point. It's a disruptive technology. And has
>>> the potential to impact the world in a big way. Again, cool to be part of
>>> that (if it is successul)
>>> - Allows you to take back some degree of control of your finances. You
>>> can have a say in how bitcoin works. and no single entity is in control,
>>> it's a true democracy (again with caveats)
>>>
>>> At this point in the game bitcoin is still young. It's come lightyears
>>> from it's beginnings, and has some major traction globally. But it's still
>>> nowhere near fully "mainstream" yet. It's still a niche. But it's growing
>>> rapidly every day.
>>>
>>> Let me know if you have any other questions. I also suggest checking out
>>> the Bitcoin Foundation, and the Wikipedia article on bitcoin. both are
>>> decent starting points.
>>>
>>> Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo
>>> Is a decent video primer.
>>>
>>> Bitcoin Foundation: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/
>>>
>>> - Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Aurelius R <maxrowsell at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> What are bitcoins and how can i get/use them? Is there a point? Dollars
>>>> have always worked well for me thus far
>>>> On 2013-11-27 11:59 AM, "Tom Burns" <tom.i.burns at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.shopify.com/blog/10446157-shopify-merchants-can-now-accept-bitcoin
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Walking through the halls today all you hear are people talking about
>>>>> bitcoin.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry guys, we're well past the beta testing phase :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Not to mention that's an expensive beta test. Our prototypes are
>>>>>> generating half a bitcoin per day, with several limitations on them. The
>>>>>> final mass production units we expect to generate nearly 1BTC per day at
>>>>>> current difficulties. And at a value of $900/BTC or more, even a 1 week
>>>>>> beta test is equal to nearly $7000 in revenue ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're just finalizing one or two minor bugs in the design, and expect
>>>>>> to be in mass production any day now for our first production batch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:58 PM, <bentfork at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul do let us know if you need some beta testers...  Any excuse to
>>>>>>> get a better internet connection at modlab.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you on CaVertex?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26 November 2013 18:37, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If anyone wants to do a bitcoin transaction, I can certainly
>>>>>>>> facilitate. I've got a fully trusted business account on the Canadian
>>>>>>>> exchange. So I can easily move funds into and out of BTC/CAD
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also I currently own a business manufacturing custom ASIC based
>>>>>>>> mining equipment (or rather we're close to launching our first product).
>>>>>>>> But you're right. The "individual hobby miner" is becoming a thing of the
>>>>>>>> past. Most of our equipment is targeted to large scale enterprise miners,
>>>>>>>> targeting datacenter deployments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Jamie <jamie at steppinofftheedge.com
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's been a great practical point of discussion with my family
>>>>>>>>> about subjective value, currencies, technology, etc. Got my son all the
>>>>>>>>> pieces to GPU mine as a Grade 8 graduation present. He made 20 coins with
>>>>>>>>> it that he spent for a Jalepeno miner that has since made him 6 or 7 coins.
>>>>>>>>> He's ok with that, I kind of wish I'd just bought him the PC's worth of BTC
>>>>>>>>> as the present which would be worth MUCH more now ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm also done recording an interview and other media that should
>>>>>>>>> have a Bitcoin themed podcast out by the end of the weekend (I hope). Check
>>>>>>>>> steppinofftheedge.com for it soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Henri Kuschkowitz <
>>>>>>>>> henri.kuschkowitz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ha,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I second that Dave. It would definitely an interesting discussion
>>>>>>>>>> if everyone could make it out. We did touch on that subject 3 weeks ago (?)
>>>>>>>>>> but only on setting up mining rigs and whether or not it’s still valuable
>>>>>>>>>> at a smaller scale.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HK
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 26, 2013, at 3:14 PM, dave at huntgang.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have been following the bit coin news! In fact, I gave a big
>>>>>>>>>> lecture to a bunch of guys at work after the fall of SilkRoad how the US
>>>>>>>>>> Government would be forced to accept BitCoin as a form of value and it's
>>>>>>>>>> inevitable increase in value... Of course, I never did buy any and am
>>>>>>>>>> kicking myself now!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2013-11-26 3:05 pm, bentfork at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I thought there would be some here that knew what I was talking
>>>>>>>>>> about.  Does anyone have experience with local bitcoin?  I'd rather trade
>>>>>>>>>> with people I kind of know, rather than strangers.  I'd like to try cashing
>>>>>>>>>> out ~ 2 btc, or equivalent litecoin.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 26 November 2013 14:56, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>>>>>>>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ooh, neat, I'm interested to see what that announcement is :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Tom Burns <
>>>>>>>>>>> tom.i.burns at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I work for Shopify.  We are about to announce something :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <
>>>>>>>>>>>> themumbys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just FYI I'm fairly heavily involved/invested in Bitcoin. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own a fairly large business focusing around them, And I'm a fairly fervent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We're working from several angles right now on trying to build
>>>>>>>>>>>>> up adoption in the area.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I weren't so damned busy lately trying to hold up a day
>>>>>>>>>>>>> job, run a business, and juggle half a dozen projects at once, I'd drag
>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself down to Modlab to catch up :) (in which case I'd be happy to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a discussion with anyone who's interested)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:35 PM, <bentfork at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I'm curious if any other list members have been following
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the crypto currency news recently.  I've been watching the space of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last year or two on and off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure if there are any local vendors that accept
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitcoin yet but it is a interesting movement.  It is always interesting to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear of restaurants, bars and online stores that are taking it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any Bitcoin, Lightcoin, etc enthusiasts on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list?  Anyone interested in a informal discussion on them some Wednesday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during a mod lab?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Lab mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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