[Lab] human powered art

Darcy Whyte darcy at siteware.com
Sat Jan 15 23:47:31 EST 2011 

Whoa! That's a huge load of great information!

Have you read the blog at: http://canadianenergyissues.com/?

It's on energy.



On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Richard Guy Briggs <rgb at tricolour.net>wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 08:45:46PM -0500, Darcy Whyte wrote:
> > Yeah, I think a stepper can be a good generator. But the problem I'm
> trying
> > to solve is what size of stepper or electric motor would make a good
> > generator for capturing electricity from a human. Apparently a human can
> > average about .1hp. But can put out more power in bursts. So I was
> figuring
> > that stepper might be too small.
> >
> > Do you think a couple of NEMA 34 motors is enough to capture energy that
> a
> > person can generate?
>
> I have no idea about the efficiencies of a stepper.  I'm even surprised
> it would work since I didn't think the armature was magnetized.
>
> > I think a car alternator is out since it needs electricity to generate
> > electricity. I'm not sure their so efficient.
>
> You are right on both counts.
>
> > Yeah, I figured for the toaster application we'd need more than a hp. I'm
> > wondering if a NEMA 34 would be enough. Or perhaps a team of them (what
> size
> > team?)
>
> Most resistive electric appliances (and microwaves) such as toasters,
> kettles, toaster ovens, electric frying pans, hair dryers, etc. draw
> 900-1800W, which is 1 up to 2.5 HP.
>
> > Your numbers agree with mine on the number of people it would take. And
> > that's part of the message in this art piece. The average person doesn't
> > have a sense of how much electricity we use in terms of the work it's
> > equivalent to (in terms we understand).
> >
> > So if it turns out it's 2 NEMA-34s to extract power from a human, I may
> need
> > to look at about 10 of them in the toaster application.  (So people can
> team
> > up to push the generators to make the toast.
> >
> > The page you made on human generators looks awesome. I'll go through
> those
> > links and information.
>
> I probably have some other links and information elsewhere since I have
> looked this up before.
>
> Here is one goldmine of info...  Past issues of "Home Power":
>
> http://tricolour.net/home_power/Home%2520Power%2520Index%2520%2523001-109.pdf
>        http://tricolour.net/home_power/
> Please be gentle on my bandwidth.  The first link is the index.
>
> > On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Richard Guy Briggs <rgb at tricolour.net
> >wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 07:14:29AM -0500, Darcy Whyte wrote:
> > > > I would like to make a human powered generator for an art project.
> > >
> > > I've been wanting to build one for a while now...
> > >
> > > > I am curious if a couple of NEMA 34 motors is large enough to capture
> all
> > > > the power that a human can generate.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that a stepper is not the kind of motor that can be
> > > used as a generator.  Wait!  I stand corrected!
> > > http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/assemblyMini3.asp
> > >
> > > What is most commonly used to generate DC is a commutated DC motor.
> > >
> > > A car alternator will also work.  It is an AC generator with a
> > > rectifier, but they tend to be a lot less efficient.  It also needs a
> > > power supply bias to get started (say, a car battery under charge)
> since
> > > there are no permanent magnets and it uses a field coil.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that motors are typically 80% efficient, while
> > > dynamos closer to 50%.
> > >
> > > Do you have a link for your NEMA 34 motor specs?  I've seen anywhere
> > > from 50W up to 500, so it sounds like those might work!
> > >
> > > > I'm looking at a couple of applications.
> > > >
> > > > 1) To run a 120V toaster. I suspect this might need as many as 5
> people
> > > to
> > > > peddle. Also to run a 60W incandescence bulb.
> > >
> > > A toaster is going to need 3 top athletes (400W ea) or about 8 fit
> > > adults (150w ea) to run.  For kids (50w ea), it is going to be more
> like
> > > 25...
> > >
> > > > 2) To charge a 12V battery.
> > >
> > > One will work here, it'll just take longer...
> > >
> > > I wanted to power a TV, or at least to power the "on" circuit.  Other
> > > ideas we had was to use a human powered generator to power parade float
> > > lights or moving parts.
> > >
> > > > I'm suspecting that a stepper motor is a good candidate to make the
> > > > electricity. I think the first part of the project is to make up some
> > > BOMs
> > > > that show what motor to use, the RPM that it would require and parts
> for
> > > a
> > > > rectifier and whatever else is necessary to operate in these
> > > applications.
> > >
> > > I've got lots of small ones, so I can try some tests and see.  I
> > > wouldn't have thought they would work because the rotor I thought was
> > > unmagnetized steel.
> > >
> > > > Does anybody know of any existing projects or have any
> recommendations?
> > >
> > > There are lots out there that I have tripped upon in the past...  I
> > > threw together this page to summarize:
> > >        http://tricolour.net/bicycle-generator.html
> > >
> > >
> > > I just tripped on this site that may be of interest too:
> > >        http://www.thebackshed.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >        slainte mhath, RGB
> > >
> > > --
> > > Richard Guy Briggs               --  ~\    -- ~\            <
> > > hpv.tricolour.net>
> > > <www.TriColour.net>                --  \___   o \@       @       Ride
> yer
> > > bike!
> > > Ottawa, ON, CANADA                  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
> > > Vote! -- <greenparty.ca
> > > >_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________
> > >
>
>        slainte mhath, RGB
>
> --
> Richard Guy Briggs               --  ~\    -- ~\            <
> hpv.tricolour.net>
> <www.TriColour.net>                --  \___   o \@       @       Ride yer
> bike!
> Ottawa, ON, CANADA                  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
> Vote! -- <greenparty.ca
> >_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________
>
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