[Lab] human powered art

Darcy Whyte darcy at siteware.com
Sat Jan 15 21:52:25 EST 2011 

I found a site that has a motor like it.
http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/Oatley-windmill.asp

<http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/Oatley-windmill.asp>It's a windmill
site.

They're calling it an Oakley DC motor. Nothing shows for that in ebay
though.





On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com> wrote:

> Richard,
>
> I'm going through the pages on your page on Human Power. There are a couple
> of good candidates there.
>
> This one:
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TKAH04?ie=UTF8&tag=reneenerblog-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000TKAH04
>
> Looks a little pricey at well over 200 bucks.
>
> This cool pedal generator in the picture at
> http://mambohead.com/2011/01/using-a-stepper-motor-as-a-generator/ is 400
> bucks for everything. I think the thing to do is figure out what motor they
> are using as a generator on that one.
>
> Does anybody know?
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess another way to look at it is if I need 1000W to make toast. And it
>> takes 5m to make the toast. If we can get 50W out of a person, then they'd
>> have to peddle for 15m to charge a battery, then they could make the toast
>> in 5m. So it would take 20m to make the toast. (Assuming we've got a pretty
>> efficient generator and battery).
>>
>> But then we don't feel the real load of making toast since we've spread it
>> out over 15m. I wanted to make the power in real time. I imagined that a
>> person would guess (wrongly) that they could turn the generator and make
>> toast easily. But when they try it they will be surprised that they can't
>> sustain since the toaster draws too much current. So then they'd get their
>> friends to help gang up on the machine.
>>
>> So I was thinking of having some sort of spool with cable on it and people
>> could row (turning the spool), or even harness the cable to their hip and
>> run out for 20 feet, then return and do it again. If there were a long
>> enough spool so lots of people could be doing this action, then a team of
>> people could probably make the toast.
>>
>> I've got some interesting ideas of how to have people turn the generator
>> but I want to start with having one that's efficient and the right size.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy at siteware.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I think a stepper can be a good generator. But the problem I'm
>>> trying to solve is what size of stepper or electric motor would make a good
>>> generator for capturing electricity from a human. Apparently a human can
>>> average about .1hp. But can put out more power in bursts. So I was figuring
>>> that stepper might be too small.
>>>
>>> Do you think a couple of NEMA 34 motors is enough to capture energy that
>>> a person can generate?
>>>
>>> I think a car alternator is out since it needs electricity to generate
>>> electricity. I'm not sure their so efficient.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I figured for the toaster application we'd need more than a hp. I'm
>>> wondering if a NEMA 34 would be enough. Or perhaps a team of them (what size
>>> team?)
>>>
>>> Your numbers agree with mine on the number of people it would take. And
>>> that's part of the message in this art piece. The average person doesn't
>>> have a sense of how much electricity we use in terms of the work it's
>>> equivalent to (in terms we understand).
>>>
>>> So if it turns out it's 2 NEMA-34s to extract power from a human, I may
>>> need to look at about 10 of them in the toaster application.  (So people can
>>> team up to push the generators to make the toast.
>>>
>>> The page you made on human generators looks awesome. I'll go through
>>> those links and information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Richard Guy Briggs <rgb at tricolour.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 07:14:29AM -0500, Darcy Whyte wrote:
>>>> > I would like to make a human powered generator for an art project.
>>>>
>>>> I've been wanting to build one for a while now...
>>>>
>>>> > I am curious if a couple of NEMA 34 motors is large enough to capture
>>>> all
>>>> > the power that a human can generate.
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that a stepper is not the kind of motor that can be
>>>> used as a generator.  Wait!  I stand corrected!
>>>> http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/assemblyMini3.asp
>>>>
>>>> What is most commonly used to generate DC is a commutated DC motor.
>>>>
>>>> A car alternator will also work.  It is an AC generator with a
>>>> rectifier, but they tend to be a lot less efficient.  It also needs a
>>>> power supply bias to get started (say, a car battery under charge) since
>>>> there are no permanent magnets and it uses a field coil.
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that motors are typically 80% efficient, while
>>>> dynamos closer to 50%.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a link for your NEMA 34 motor specs?  I've seen anywhere
>>>> from 50W up to 500, so it sounds like those might work!
>>>>
>>>> > I'm looking at a couple of applications.
>>>> >
>>>> > 1) To run a 120V toaster. I suspect this might need as many as 5
>>>> people to
>>>> > peddle. Also to run a 60W incandescence bulb.
>>>>
>>>> A toaster is going to need 3 top athletes (400W ea) or about 8 fit
>>>> adults (150w ea) to run.  For kids (50w ea), it is going to be more like
>>>> 25...
>>>>
>>>> > 2) To charge a 12V battery.
>>>>
>>>> One will work here, it'll just take longer...
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to power a TV, or at least to power the "on" circuit.  Other
>>>> ideas we had was to use a human powered generator to power parade float
>>>> lights or moving parts.
>>>>
>>>> > I'm suspecting that a stepper motor is a good candidate to make the
>>>> > electricity. I think the first part of the project is to make up some
>>>> BOMs
>>>> > that show what motor to use, the RPM that it would require and parts
>>>> for a
>>>> > rectifier and whatever else is necessary to operate in these
>>>> applications.
>>>>
>>>> I've got lots of small ones, so I can try some tests and see.  I
>>>> wouldn't have thought they would work because the rotor I thought was
>>>> unmagnetized steel.
>>>>
>>>> > Does anybody know of any existing projects or have any
>>>> recommendations?
>>>>
>>>> There are lots out there that I have tripped upon in the past...  I
>>>> threw together this page to summarize:
>>>>        http://tricolour.net/bicycle-generator.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just tripped on this site that may be of interest too:
>>>>        http://www.thebackshed.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        slainte mhath, RGB
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Richard Guy Briggs               --  ~\    -- ~\            <
>>>> hpv.tricolour.net>
>>>> <www.TriColour.net>                --  \___   o \@       @       Ride
>>>> yer bike!
>>>> Ottawa, ON, CANADA                  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
>>>> Vote! -- <greenparty.ca
>>>> >_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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