<div><div><div>I think the laser thing would have to be in some sort of enclosure or tube to keep it safer. It wouldn't need to be aimed because the wasps would walk or fly in front of it.</div><div><br></div><div>I love your princes auto electric fence idea. That's basically what I'm doing is trying to put an electric fence over their entrance.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Wow, that Wasp sucking machine is awesome. I know Matthais (must be a brother of the maker).</div><div><br></div><div>After I get to the bottom of this I'll get one of those decoy nests at canadian tire as you point out. Seems okay for 10 bucks.</div>
<div><br></div><div>When a laser hits metal (and does not cut) the energy goes directly to your eyeball. </div><div><br></div></div></div><div><br></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Richard Guy Briggs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rgb@tricolour.net">rgb@tricolour.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 05:44:46PM -0400, Darcy Whyte wrote:<br>
> Those laser diodes aren't too expensive.<br>
><br>
> But I guess I need current drivers for 30.00 (that's 2 drivers).<br>
><br>
> I think I need a heat sink (45.00?) and perhaps a lens (5.00).<br>
><br>
> I think if it could work it could make for a pretty effective way of<br>
> stopping the yellow jackets. It would just be a matter of putting this<br>
> device near where they enter their nest and it would (in theory get rid of<br>
> the community).<br>
<br>
</div>My main concern would be where/how do you aim that sucker? It isn't the<br>
kind of thing that peters out a whole lot with distance, so whatever is<br>
behind it is toast. If you aim it up, hoping to avoid hitting anything,<br>
it'll still hit birds and planes... Perhaps I just don't understand<br>
lasers well enough yet...<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> These pests are an ongoing problem so I am prepared to come up with a device<br>
> even it if take some time and I have to learn a few things. As it stands<br>
> every time I have to deal with the little buggers it takes plenty of time to<br>
> assess, take precautions and use various means to combat them and follow up.<br>
<br>
</div>I like the parallel screens of charged wire. Put 'em vertical so they<br>
auto-empty and just close enough together so that they just within<br>
wingspan...<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> The only concern I have for the laser is it's dangerous for humans. I<br>
> suppose if the lens were dropped then it would only do damage at close<br>
> range. Perhaps there could be a tube they have to get through and the laser<br>
> is in there and the beam can't get out.<br>
<br>
</div>Can't laser cutting diodes also cut metal, and if not, reflect? Where<br>
does that power go?<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> This laser thing is worth looking into since it could have other<br>
> applications...<br>
<br>
</div>Indeed! However, it sounds dangerous... mostly because of my<br>
ignorance.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> I ordered a disposable camera for about 12 bucks with shipping. That might<br>
> work too.<br>
<br>
</div>That's a good starting point.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Either way I think I need a trigger to only deliver the punch when the<br>
> animal is in the right area. (So the thing can run for a while on<br>
> batteries). Like Michael says, if there is continuous charge on the grid (in<br>
> the high voltage case), it will discharge on contact. Hmmm, that's sounding<br>
> better all the time, all I have to do is keep the capacitor charged.<br>
<br>
</div>Some systems, like animal electric fences, stay charged all the time and<br>
are kept running with a small solar panel, so they can't take that much<br>
power... You can get those things at Princess Auto.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> I suppose I might not get lucky and reuse this thing since they may not have<br>
> an exclusive access point. It's just that this time they're in the roof and<br>
> I can't use my usual means.<br>
<br>
</div>Last time, I tried several ways to get rid of a nest in the<br>
balcony 1st floor ceiling-2nd floor floor and resorted to calling a<br>
professional. Before calling the pros, we had them in 3 different holes<br>
into the same space. It helped, but didn't completely eliminate it.<br>
We've now got one of these hanging in the vicinity:<br>
<a href="http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/MosquitoPestControl/InsectControl/PRD~0593500P/Bee-Free+Natural+Wasp+Deterrent,+2-Pk.jsp?locale=en" target="_blank">http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/MosquitoPestControl/InsectControl/PRD~0593500P/Bee-Free+Natural+Wasp+Deterrent,+2-Pk.jsp?locale=en</a><br>
We haven't had a problem since, touch wood...<br>
<br>
<br>
Now that I think of it, Marcus Wandel, who has actually come out to one<br>
of our modlab meetings, made this contraption to get rid of his<br>
yellow-jacket problem:<br>
<a href="http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/built/wasp-sucker.html" target="_blank">http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/built/wasp-sucker.html</a><br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <<a href="mailto:themumbys@gmail.com">themumbys@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> > They are diodes. You just give them constant voltage like an LED. Mind you<br>
> > some need to be pulsed instead of constant.<br>
> ><br>
> > Here are some ebay links:<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LOT-5-808nm-high-power-burning-laser-diode-1-watt-/170681506053?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bd691905" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LOT-5-808nm-high-power-burning-laser-diode-1-watt-/170681506053?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bd691905</a><br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.ebay.ca/itm/808nm-1000-mw-high-power-burning-laser-diode-1-watt-/180709833539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a13253b43" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.ca/itm/808nm-1000-mw-high-power-burning-laser-diode-1-watt-/180709833539?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a13253b43</a><br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.ebay.ca/itm/50-808nm-1W-BLUE-DPSS-HIGH-POWER-BURNING-LASER-DIODE-/230664842498?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4b22d02" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.ca/itm/50-808nm-1W-BLUE-DPSS-HIGH-POWER-BURNING-LASER-DIODE-/230664842498?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4b22d02</a><br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.ebay.ca/itm/50-808nm-1W-YAG-IR-DPSS-HIGH-POWER-BURNING-LASER-DIODE-/230664835850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4b2130a" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.ca/itm/50-808nm-1W-YAG-IR-DPSS-HIGH-POWER-BURNING-LASER-DIODE-/230664835850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4b2130a</a><br>
> ><br>
> > This one is a driver:<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-Laser-Diode-Drivers-405nm-445nm-burning-808nm-650nm-/120767948391?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1e54a667" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-Laser-Diode-Drivers-405nm-445nm-burning-808nm-650nm-/120767948391?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1e54a667</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Also to note you need to cool these diodes with something (normally they<br>
> > get mounted into an aluminum laser body, or into an aluminum heatsink to<br>
> > keep them cool)<br>
> ><br>
> > They are only 1W so enough to burn paper, burn wood, or light small fires,<br>
> > but to an insect I suspect it would be devastating (especially if you could<br>
> > hit it with a bunch at once).<br>
> ><br>
> > - Paul<br>
> ><br>
> > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Darcy Whyte <<a href="mailto:darcy@siteware.com">darcy@siteware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> I can't seem to find those lasers on ebay. Dont I need to build a power<br>
> >> supply to drive those?<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <<a href="mailto:themumbys@gmail.com">themumbys@gmail.com</a><br>
> >> > wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >>> Ooh, after hearing Aaron's suggestion about a laser (in the ultrasonic<br>
> >>> sensor thread). Why not use some cheap 1W laser diodes off ebay, make an<br>
> >>> arrangement that covers the opening so they have to fly through the beam.<br>
> >>> Would allow them to pass through unlike a mesh/screen and might be easier to<br>
> >>> catch them with (plus will allow the dead to fall out easier since no<br>
> >>> physical mesh there). Might need a few diodes but you can get like 50 packs<br>
> >>> for $20 on ebay from china lol...<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> It can be your anti-wasp-laser-defense-sysem ;)<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> - Paul<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Tom Burns <<a href="mailto:tom.i.burns@gmail.com">tom.i.burns@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>> I would probably swap out the batteries for a DC connection to a wall<br>
> >>>> wart, but you may want to monitor the wall wart's temperature.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Darcy Whyte <<a href="mailto:darcy@siteware.com">darcy@siteware.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> You mean just tape the on button and put it near the entrance? I wonder<br>
> >>>>> how far that would go on one set of batteries?<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Tom Burns <<a href="mailto:tom.i.burns@gmail.com">tom.i.burns@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>>> Instead of a full DIY what about those $10 "tennis racket"-esque<br>
> >>>>>> electric mosquito killers? They might not be strong enough to kill bees but<br>
> >>>>>> maybe just a capacitor change would be sufficient...<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Darcy Whyte <<a href="mailto:darcy@siteware.com">darcy@siteware.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Well the beez or going into the ceiling. So I figured putting a mesh<br>
> >>>>>>> across their entrance would work. If I zap them on the way up but not down<br>
> >>>>>>> then the'd just fall from there.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:50 AM, mike Jans <<a href="mailto:mjans@live.com">mjans@live.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Make sure your design allows for the dead to fall down and not<br>
> >>>>>>>> clog the mesh. From my experience with bees, when something gets in close to<br>
> >>>>>>>> their front door, they'll investigate immediately. From the traffic in the<br>
> >>>>>>>> video, that might become an issue. Perhaps make it adjustable. In the<br>
> >>>>>>>> beginning, you might sacrifice some kills for smooth operation. Later, you<br>
> >>>>>>>> adjust for a more thorough deathrate.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------<br>
> >>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:42:24 -0400<br>
> >>>>>>>> From: <a href="mailto:krazatchu@hotmail.com">krazatchu@hotmail.com</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> To: <a href="mailto:lab@artengine.ca">lab@artengine.ca</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lab] yellow jackets and electricity<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> You don't need to detect them at all...<br>
> >>>>>>>> Just use two parallel meshes at a distance of about 3/4 the length<br>
> >>>>>>>> of a yellow jacket...<br>
> >>>>>>>> With opposing charges on the meshes, the yellow jackets become the<br>
> >>>>>>>> trigger...<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> This is not uncommon in Korea for mosquitoes...<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Koolatron-Lentek-Biteshield-RZ02-Electronic/dp/B000H7CUSQ" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Koolatron-Lentek-Biteshield-RZ02-Electronic/dp/B000H7CUSQ</a><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> And be careful with camera flashes, they can really hurt (and<br>
> >>>>>>>> kill)...<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Michael<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="http://NoMiDesign.net/" target="_blank">http://NoMiDesign.net/</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="http://krazatchu.ca/" target="_blank">http://krazatchu.ca/</a><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> On 8/29/2011 11:31 AM, Darcy Whyte wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I don't think the Squirrels are reading my blog so we should be<br>
> >>>>>>>> okay.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I've already got some parts on order (including a disposable<br>
> >>>>>>>> camera to get a zapper out).<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I'm a little concerned about how I will detect when they are in<br>
> >>>>>>>> contact with the mesh. Perhaps just a motion detector.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I just took some video of the little buggers:<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="http://mambohead.com/2011/08/arduino-bug-zapper-yellow-jacket-removal/" target="_blank">http://mambohead.com/2011/08/arduino-bug-zapper-yellow-jacket-removal/</a><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> As you can see, they're going up a hole in the ceiling.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> The chemical idea might work but can it go uphill into the<br>
> >>>>>>>> ceiling? I guess I have to seal the hole after I get rid of them.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Tom Burns <<a href="mailto:tom.i.burns@gmail.com">tom.i.burns@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> An Arduino-powered stun gun is not something I would want to fall<br>
> >>>>>>>> into the hands of a species as devious as the squirrels ;)<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> If it's not high powered enough, and you're not against using<br>
> >>>>>>>> chemicals, I dealt with a nasty bee (my fiancee is allergic) problem in my<br>
> >>>>>>>> backyard using Raid "One Shot" wasp killer.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Tom<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Darcy Whyte <<a href="mailto:darcy@siteware.com">darcy@siteware.com</a>>wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Richard,<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the note.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I figured keeping a coil charged might be expensive on the<br>
> >>>>>>>> batteries. Seems the next place to go is keeping a capacitor charged. As I<br>
> >>>>>>>> mentioned in the blog post, a disposable camera may have enough hardware to<br>
> >>>>>>>> do this. May not be as high a voltage but it might work.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> So it just comes down to triggering the high voltage thing.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I'm all ears on how to trigger it but I figured I could just use<br>
> >>>>>>>> an arduino because the labor content may be lower. There might be something<br>
> >>>>>>>> that can save some pennies but I think for the pain a community of yellow<br>
> >>>>>>>> jackets causes, it's okay if it uses an arduino for a couple days.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Even if the Squirrels steal it.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Darcy<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 8:59 PM, Richard Guy Briggs <<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:rgb@tricolour.net">rgb@tricolour.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 01:32:19PM -0700, Darcy Whyte wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>> > What about this angle:<br>
> >>>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>>> > A motion detector of some sort.<br>
> >>>>>>>> > a coil<br>
> >>>>>>>> > a relay<br>
> >>>>>>>> > a 6v battery<br>
> >>>>>>>> > a wire grid over the opening<br>
> >>>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>>> > When a yellow jacket is detected we charge the coil and then let<br>
> >>>>>>>> it<br>
> >>>>>>>> > discharge through the grid.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I think the idea is to keep it charged so that it does its work on<br>
> >>>>>>>> contact.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> > The relay is to isolate an arduino from the coil charging<br>
> >>>>>>>> action...<br>
> >>>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>>> > What sort of coil would I need?<br>
> >>>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>>> > If this will work at all....<br>
> >>>>>>>> ><br>
> >>>>>>>> > Also, what about detecting the bug when it touches the grid? I<br>
> >>>>>>>> suppose the<br>
> >>>>>>>> > problem with that is I'd need to isolate it from the arduino<br>
> >>>>>>>> somehow since<br>
> >>>>>>>> > the high voltage will zap the arduino too....<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> Does it really need an arduino, or just a wired power supply and a<br>
> >>>>>>>> way<br>
> >>>>>>>> of forcing all entering and exiting wasps of touching the charged<br>
> >>>>>>>> wires?<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Darcy Whyte <<a href="mailto:darcy@siteware.com">darcy@siteware.com</a>><br>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>> > > Perhaps this can be DIYed:<br>
> >>>>>>>> > > <a href="http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page1421.html" target="_blank">http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page1421.html</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> > ><br>
> >>>>>>>> > > I could then just hang the thing near the hole and place some<br>
> >>>>>>>> electrodes<br>
> >>>>>>>> > > right there.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> I've seen one of those at a friend's cottage. It is only $10, so<br>
> >>>>>>>> it<br>
> >>>>>>>> might be worth just buying one to find out how it works and adapt it<br>
> >>>>>>>> for<br>
> >>>>>>>> automatic use with your wasp nest. We had one in the floor of our<br>
> >>>>>>>> balcony. It was a nuisance...<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> You might want to adapt it with very fine wires brushing around the<br>
> >>>>>>>> hole<br>
> >>>>>>>> (but if the wire is too fine, it might fuse instead of delivering<br>
> >>>>>>>> the<br>
> >>>>>>>> intended shock to an insect...)<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Darcy Whyte <<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:darcy@siteware.com">darcy@siteware.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> Let's say I have a nasty yellow jacket nest that's starting to<br>
> >>>>>>>> cause<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> problems.<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >><br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> I've dealt with these in the past when the next is very exposed<br>
> >>>>>>>> but this<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> time I only have access to an opening about an inch where they<br>
> >>>>>>>> are coming<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> and going.<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >><br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> Has anybody ever tried to put some sort of zapper near an<br>
> >>>>>>>> entrance? Seems<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> that should be an easy way to get them.<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >><br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> A trap seems to take long because they only go into it once in<br>
> >>>>>>>> a while so<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> it takes a long while.<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >><br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> I figure if I put a couple of electrodes near the hole, they<br>
> >>>>>>>> could<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> complete the gap.<br>
> >>>>>>>> > >><br>
> >>>>>>>> > >> If this would work, I wonder how many bugs a couple of D-cells<br>
> >>>>>>>> could zap?<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> slainte mhath, RGB<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>> Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\ -- ~\ <<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="http://hpv.tricolour.net" target="_blank">hpv.tricolour.net</a>><br>
> >>>>>>>> <<a href="http://www.TriColour.net" target="_blank">www.TriColour.net</a>> -- \___ o \@ @<br>
> >>>>>>>> Ride yer bike!<br>
> >>>>>>>> Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%<br>
> >>>>>>>> Vote! -- <<a href="http://greenparty.ca" target="_blank">greenparty.ca</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> >_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>>>>> Lab mailing list<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca">Lab@artengine.ca</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
</div></div>> >>>>>>>> Lab mailing listLab@artengine.cahttp://<a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><br>
<div class="im">> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>> ---------------------- <a href="http://NoMiDesign.net/" target="_blank">http://NoMiDesign.net/</a> <a href="http://krazatchu.ca/" target="_blank">http://krazatchu.ca/</a><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Lab mailing list<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca">Lab@artengine.ca</a> <a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>>>>> Lab mailing list<br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca">Lab@artengine.ca</a><br>
> >>>>>>>> <a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>>>> Lab mailing list<br>
> >>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca">Lab@artengine.ca</a><br>
> >>>>>>> <a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> Lab mailing list<br>
> >>>> <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca">Lab@artengine.ca</a><br>
> >>>> <a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>><br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">> _______________________________________________<br>
> Lab mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca">Lab@artengine.ca</a><br>
> <a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><br>
<br>
<br>
slainte mhath, RGB<br>
<br>
--<br>
Richard Guy Briggs -- ~\ -- ~\ <<a href="http://hpv.tricolour.net" target="_blank">hpv.tricolour.net</a>><br>
<<a href="http://www.TriColour.net" target="_blank">www.TriColour.net</a>> -- \___ o \@ @ Ride yer bike!<br>
Ottawa, ON, CANADA -- Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%<br>
Vote! -- <<a href="http://greenparty.ca" target="_blank">greenparty.ca</a>>_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________<br>
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