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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yep, they are the same. Even if they are clones, they are cloning the same design flaws. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The Kinek service is free to sign up and $5 per package up to a certain weight (100 lbs I think).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I got my bearings from vxb as well. I just went to Princess Auto over the weekend and they have bearings there as well that appear to be the same size. If I built another machine, I might try those.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> darcy.whyte@gmail.com [mailto:darcy.whyte@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Darcy Whyte<br><b>Sent:</b> June-06-11 10:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> John Nicol<br><b>Cc:</b> lab@artengine.ca<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Marauder project (around 400 bucks and counting)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all>yikes, that user doesn't have anything for sale and they have 10 nasty comments against their profile. I take it the one mentioning the used motor is yours. :)<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm not convinced all the boards are all the same. There are probably different versions around. I've got two of those boards and I tested them both. Surely it can't be the case that they are succeeding at selling stuff and none of it works. Clones are everywhere.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>How much does that <span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Kinek service cost? I've been using UPS by the price chopper which is $5/item (less for envelopes and stuff). </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#1F497D'>I got my first batch of bearings from <a href="http://vxb.com">vxb.com</a>. Might not be the cheapest but they're pretty fast.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#1F497D'><br></span><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:23 PM, John Nicol <<a href="mailto:john_nicol@hotmail.com">john_nicol@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sorry dyslexic: chengfang2134</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I will probably buy the motors from longs_motor. I have already been in touch with them, so if I buy the hobbyCNC controller kit, I will buy their motors. They seem to be cheap enough and motors can’t be screwed up too much. (fingers crossed).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Yes, tried the board with a different computer, no joy. A different LPT hardware <i><u>might</u></i> make a difference though if the signal is clean and strong enough. The computers are a similar brand mobo. Not the exact same, but from the same manufacturer, so could be the same LPT port chipset. Again, because of the flaws in the design of the board and no isolation protection on the PC, I would avoid if possible, but have a read of the CNCZone forum for hints and tips and design review for an insight. The dip settings are completely contradictory between vendors as well. The instructions that came with the board are different to other stores that are selling the exact same board. Sorry, won’t harp on about it anymore! (grumble) </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I got my 24V 15A PSU from onlyforever702. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>By the way, I did get my hardware from McMaster-Carr. I set up a postal address in Ogdensburg through Kinek and just picked up the parts across the border one afternoon. I got stuck with their stupid export rules as well, so did that to avoid the headaches. Even though I paid with a Canadian credit card, the delivery address was in the US, so no worries.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I tried sourcing parts here in Canada and one company said that they could get the parts from M-C, but their quote was literally three times the actual price PLUS shipping. I would recommend the Kinek route for any shipments. The savings in shipping costs alone are worth the two hours return trip. There is also an excellent greasy spoon dive/diner close by the postal point that serves a great breakfast and is guaranteed to double your cholesterol in one sitting.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:darcy.whyte@gmail.com" target="_blank">darcy.whyte@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:darcy.whyte@gmail.com" target="_blank">darcy.whyte@gmail.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Darcy Whyte<br><b>Sent:</b> June-06-11 6:33 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>To:</b> John Nicol<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:lab@artengine.ca" target="_blank">lab@artengine.ca</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Marauder project (around 400 bucks and counting)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br clear=all>I can't find <span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#1F497D'>chengfang1234 in ebay. Did you try the board with a different computer to see what happens?</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#1F497D'>I bought mine from <a href="http://myworld.ebay.com/longs_motor/" target="_blank">http://myworld.ebay.com/longs_motor/</a> for 70.00. I needed to buy the power supply somewhere else so I just got that on the cheap. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;color:#1F497D'>I guesss the controller is 100, rather than 150 so that brings my first Marauder to about 350 I guess.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:24 PM, John Nicol <<a href="mailto:john_nicol@hotmail.com" target="_blank">john_nicol@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The seller was chengfang1234. Yep opened up a problem report, no answer. Next step is dispute. They also sold me a second-hand motor and said it was new.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I paid $129.99, which included the stepper motors.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:darcy.whyte@gmail.com" target="_blank">darcy.whyte@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:darcy.whyte@gmail.com" target="_blank">darcy.whyte@gmail.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Darcy Whyte<br><b>Sent:</b> June-06-11 6:12 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><b>To:</b> John Nicol<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:lab@artengine.ca" target="_blank">lab@artengine.ca</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>Subject:</b> Re: Marauder project (around 400 bucks and counting)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I put power on it and it works fine. I'm running it at 24v. I guess we'll find out how long it runs for and how well it runs under load. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If you bought it in ebay, you probably could have opened a problem report in ebay and they may respond to that. I think you can make a dispute in ebay too. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>You mean yours isn't working? What seller did you get it from?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:01 PM, John Nicol <<a href="mailto:john_nicol@hotmail.com" target="_blank">john_nicol@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Darcy,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The CNCZone forum listed is specifically that board you have in the photo, not Chinese CNC controllers in general. It applies to the three and four axis controllers based on the TB6560. I have the same three axis one that you show in the photo purchased of eBay about two months ago. I am honestly surprised that it works for you, the design means that the motors share a ground with your LPT port, so there is no isolation between your PC and the motors, but as long as the voltages are kept low you shouldn’t blow the PC up. That is an option though. Never run it over ~34 V or you <u>will</u> blow the stepper drivers and risk the LPT port. The opto-isolators are also wired wrong in this design and there is significant noise on the stepper driver IC clock that means a loss of steps for most people. I run it at 24V.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have analysed the design as well (being an electronics tech in a previous life) and can say that I would not recommend that design. I also tried to contact the company I bought it off eBay from and they have yet to respond. There are a few companies in Hong Kong and China that seem to deal in these boards. The fixes that are listed in the CNCZone forum will work up to a point and a few have reported good progress. I have found that I am losing too many steps and lots of hair to continue with that board. I might try one more suggested fix, which is to bypass the opto-isolator on the clock and go straight from the LPT pin to try to get a clean signal.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have seen some newer boards out on eBay that might address these issues, so looking forward to some reviews on CNCZone before jumping that way again. Probably just go with HobbyCNC for now. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The big caveat with the above is that if it works for you, then it works and that is a good thing. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I am just missing electrical, everything else is done and now shopping around for alternate controllers.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>John</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:darcy.whyte@gmail.com" target="_blank">darcy.whyte@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:darcy.whyte@gmail.com" target="_blank">darcy.whyte@gmail.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Darcy Whyte<br><b>Sent:</b> June-06-11 5:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> John Nicol<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:lab@artengine.ca" target="_blank">lab@artengine.ca</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Marauder project (around 400 bucks and counting)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br clear=all>The cnc controllers work great and the price is right. I doubt the issue people spoke about on cnczone is about all chinese cnc controllers. There will have been an incident or incidents with a specific one. I had problems the the cnc controllr on a mill I bought in china but they replaced the electronics. But that's a different piece of hardware. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Eventually there will be a bill of materials with lots of different options. People can spend as much as they want on controllers.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What are you missing for your CNC project? Just electrical?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 5:02 PM, John Nicol <<a href="mailto:john_nicol@hotmail.com" target="_blank">john_nicol@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Marauder project (around 400 bucks and counting) (Darcy Whyte)<br><br>=====<br><br>Hi Darcy,<br><br>Nice to meet your virtual acquaintance! First time posting in the mailing<br>list so hopefully I don't screw it up too badly.<br><br>I went to your website briefly and saw the electronics proposed. I would<br>stay away from that particular Chinese design and manufacturer. I purchased<br>a 3-axis board + NEMA 17 motors off eBay and have had nothing but problems.<br>There is even a forum discussion on CNCZone about these. The design is<br>flawed.<br><br><a href="http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/110986-how_i_fi%0d%0axed_my_chinese.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/110986-how_i_fi<br>xed_my_chinese.html</a><br><br>There are suggested fixes in the forum discussion and I have applied these<br>(and learnt how to solder SMD at the same time, so it was worthwhile from<br>that point of view), but although it improves the noise, it is missing steps<br>all over the place. A piece of crap. I made the CNC described in<br>Instructables here:<br><br><a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Three-Axis-CNC-Machine-Cheaply%0d%0a-and-/" target="_blank">http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Three-Axis-CNC-Machine-Cheaply<br>-and-/</a><br><br>I have a picture of what I have made and can email separately. All up, I<br>guess it cost me $600 so far. It would work quite well I am guessing if I<br>had a "real" controller board. I am thinking of getting a kit from hobbyCNC<br>and buying some 6 wire Nema motors from eBay to make it all work. Currently<br>I have a dremel, but will upgrade that to a trim router.<br><br>Regards,<br>John<br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Lab mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lab@artengine.ca" target="_blank">Lab@artengine.ca</a><br><a href="http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab" target="_blank">http://artengine.ca/mailman/listinfo/lab</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>